khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:28 am
You are correct, he was certainly guilty and I did comment on his tone. I stopped shot of saying they both deserved a time out. However, rookie is consistent and didn't make totally bogus claims about what the other person said. Complete fabrications on ripples part. The name calling on both sides was troubling. The blatent lies (to me) were worse.
Yeah they are worse. But outright lying, misquoting, gaslighting is all fair game to a lot of posters here to shut down a debate.
My tone is direct. Always. Guilty as charged.
Old saying goes, can’t win an argument, go right to personal attacks, lying, misquoting.
I didn’t start it, I am happy to finish it and defend myself.
khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:28 am
Fanblade, you're right, the year 1 to year 12 comparison isn't exactly a good one, but that year 1 FO is still in a pretty serious position especially when the year 12 captain is sleeping on the way to Dubai. Here is a better one. Year 1 WB captain to year 1 WB FO. 4x the salary. Year 1 NB captain to year 1 NB FO 3.75x.
This, and If I were one of the FO’s at AC, I’d be all over this to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Doesn’t matter what posters here say that it’s different this time. Yeah, yeah, trust that as far as I could throw it.
This is Canada, proud member of old boys clubs, happy to screw the majority to enrich a few on the inside. Its much cheaper.
khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:28 am
Fanblade, you're right, the year 1 to year 12 comparison isn't exactly a good one, but that year 1 FO is still in a pretty serious position especially when the year 12 captain is sleeping on the way to Dubai. Here is a better one. Year 1 WB captain to year 1 WB FO. 4x the salary. Year 1 NB captain to year 1 NB FO 3.75x.
This, and If I were one of the FO’s at AC, I’d be all over this to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Doesn’t matter what posters here say that it’s different this time. Yeah, yeah, trust that as far as I could throw it.
This is Canada, proud member of old boys clubs, happy to screw the majority to enrich a few on the inside. Its much cheaper.
Prove me wrong.
More than half of the pilots at AC have been hired in the last ten years. And over 1500 are on flat pay. A TA that is brought forward only to reward the wide body captains will be DOA. Also the company has been trying to boost starting pay to attract more experienced crews (albeit by giving up stuff later in our career i.e. in the MOA that was voted down with basically every flat pilot that I’ve flown with voting it down).
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khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:28 am
Fanblade, you're right, the year 1 to year 12 comparison isn't exactly a good one, but that year 1 FO is still in a pretty serious position especially when the year 12 captain is sleeping on the way to Dubai. Here is a better one. Year 1 WB captain to year 1 WB FO. 4x the salary. Year 1 NB captain to year 1 NB FO 3.75x.
This, and If I were one of the FO’s at AC, I’d be all over this to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Doesn’t matter what posters here say that it’s different this time. Yeah, yeah, trust that as far as I could throw it.
This is Canada, proud member of old boys clubs, happy to screw the majority to enrich a few on the inside. Its much cheaper.
Prove me wrong.
My generation is very deserving of that comment. Albeit not all of us.
As proving you wrong? I am 100% confident.
To be all over it takes being in control. Being in control takes time and planning.
Starting multiple years back a group of mostly junior pilots, but not all, decided to advocate for change. To remove the good ole boys club. It was a fight but eventually successful. ACPA was removed. ALPA brought in.
That good ole boys club no longer exists. If it existed today it would already be too late.
The MEC today is made up of a much more junior demographic than only just two years ago.
What you see going on today would not be happening without the bottom half of the seniority list.
khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:28 am
Fanblade, you're right, the year 1 to year 12 comparison isn't exactly a good one, but that year 1 FO is still in a pretty serious position especially when the year 12 captain is sleeping on the way to Dubai. Here is a better one. Year 1 WB captain to year 1 WB FO. 4x the salary. Year 1 NB captain to year 1 NB FO 3.75x.
This, and If I were one of the FO’s at AC, I’d be all over this to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Doesn’t matter what posters here say that it’s different this time. Yeah, yeah, trust that as far as I could throw it.
This is Canada, proud member of old boys clubs, happy to screw the majority to enrich a few on the inside. Its much cheaper.
Prove me wrong.
My generation is very deserving of that comment. Albeit not all of us.
As proving you wrong? I am 100% confident.
To be all over it takes being in control. Being in control takes time and planning.
Starting multiple years back a group of mostly junior pilots, but not all, decided to advocate for change. To remove the good ole boys club. It was a fight but eventually successful. ACPA was removed. ALPA brought in.
That good ole boys club no longer exists. If it existed today it would already be too late.
The MEC today is made up of a much more junior demographic than only just two years ago.
What you see going on today would not be happening without the bottom half of the seniority list.
They are all over it. They are the driving force
This is seriously wonderful to hear. Acknowledging this generation was screwed by the previous is not a common sentiment. When I said things like that in my previous career I was greeted with "we all had to do our time" comments, the likes of which are far too common in these forums as well.
You are a breath of fresh air fanblade. I hope you end up being right. These things take a long time to fix as you say, so while I like that the motivation is there, I don't see it happening very quickly. Like you said. Old boy club. It doesn't dissappear overnight.
khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:28 am
Fanblade, you're right, the year 1 to year 12 comparison isn't exactly a good one, but that year 1 FO is still in a pretty serious position especially when the year 12 captain is sleeping on the way to Dubai. Here is a better one. Year 1 WB captain to year 1 WB FO. 4x the salary. Year 1 NB captain to year 1 NB FO 3.75x.
This, and If I were one of the FO’s at AC, I’d be all over this to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Doesn’t matter what posters here say that it’s different this time. Yeah, yeah, trust that as far as I could throw it.
This is Canada, proud member of old boys clubs, happy to screw the majority to enrich a few on the inside. Its much cheaper.
Prove me wrong.
My generation is very deserving of that comment. Albeit not all of us.
As proving you wrong? I am 100% confident.
To be all over it takes being in control. Being in control takes time and planning.
Starting multiple years back a group of mostly junior pilots, but not all, decided to advocate for change. To remove the good ole boys club. It was a fight but eventually successful. ACPA was removed. ALPA brought in.
That good ole boys club no longer exists. If it existed today it would already be too late.
The MEC today is made up of a much more junior demographic than only just two years ago.
What you see going on today would not be happening without the bottom half of the seniority list.
They are all over it. They are the driving force
Awesome to hear.
I am in my mid 50’s. Not quite a boomer but close. I am concerned on a much broader scale for the future of our young people.
In jobs, in housing! — in the ability to afford to raise a family of their own.
I believe they have been screwed over by previous generations with the active help of governments.
I believe its coming where governments will have to stop favouring retiree voters, and focus on the younger generation. It has implications for democracy if they refuse.
IMO —- bluntly —- most of you have no idea of the shitstorm coming without major reforms. People aren’t having children. Can’t afford it.
“Its not all about you” —- boomers and older need to hear.
khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:28 am
You are correct, he was certainly guilty and I did comment on his tone. I stopped shot of saying they both deserved a time out. However, rookie is consistent and didn't make totally bogus claims about what the other person said. Complete fabrications on ripples part. The name calling on both sides was troubling. The blatent lies (to me) were worse.
Yeah they are worse. But outright lying, misquoting, gaslighting is all fair game to a lot of posters here to shut down a debate.
My tone is direct. Always. Guilty as charged.
Old saying goes, can’t win an argument, go right to personal attacks, lying, misquoting.
I didn’t start it, I am happy to finish it and defend myself.
Big difference.
That's rich! You were temporarily banned from here after having what can only be described as a complete meltdown when I caught you lying and gaslighting.
khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:28 am
Fanblade, you're right, the year 1 to year 12 comparison isn't exactly a good one, but that year 1 FO is still in a pretty serious position especially when the year 12 captain is sleeping on the way to Dubai. Here is a better one. Year 1 WB captain to year 1 WB FO. 4x the salary. Year 1 NB captain to year 1 NB FO 3.75x.
This, and If I were one of the FO’s at AC, I’d be all over this to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Doesn’t matter what posters here say that it’s different this time. Yeah, yeah, trust that as far as I could throw it.
This is Canada, proud member of old boys clubs, happy to screw the majority to enrich a few on the inside. Its much cheaper.
Prove me wrong.
Just to keep things on topic, the job isn't to prove you wrong. The job is to secure a long overdue world class contract for all Air Canada pilots. Once this is achieved, the rest will have fallen into place. We are merely 5 weeks away from a work stoppage. This is a significant event given the size and impact of this airline. Management knows this. It is my belief we will get a WCC. It is my belief that economically speaking, management will squeeze out every last drop of this labor discount for as long as they can; the 11th hour.
khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:28 am
You are correct, he was certainly guilty and I did comment on his tone. I stopped shot of saying they both deserved a time out. However, rookie is consistent and didn't make totally bogus claims about what the other person said. Complete fabrications on ripples part. The name calling on both sides was troubling. The blatent lies (to me) were worse.
Yeah they are worse. But outright lying, misquoting, gaslighting is all fair game to a lot of posters here to shut down a debate.
My tone is direct. Always. Guilty as charged.
Old saying goes, can’t win an argument, go right to personal attacks, lying, misquoting.
I didn’t start it, I am happy to finish it and defend myself.
Big difference.
That's rich! You were temporarily banned from here after having what can only be described as a complete meltdown when I caught you lying and gaslighting.
khedrei wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:28 am
Fanblade, you're right, the year 1 to year 12 comparison isn't exactly a good one, but that year 1 FO is still in a pretty serious position especially when the year 12 captain is sleeping on the way to Dubai. Here is a better one. Year 1 WB captain to year 1 WB FO. 4x the salary. Year 1 NB captain to year 1 NB FO 3.75x.
This, and If I were one of the FO’s at AC, I’d be all over this to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Doesn’t matter what posters here say that it’s different this time. Yeah, yeah, trust that as far as I could throw it.
This is Canada, proud member of old boys clubs, happy to screw the majority to enrich a few on the inside. Its much cheaper.
Prove me wrong.
Just to keep things on topic, the job isn't to prove you wrong. The job is to secure a long overdue world class contract for all Air Canada pilots. Once this is achieved, the rest will have fallen into place. We are merely 5 weeks away from a work stoppage. This is a significant event given the size and impact of this airline. Management knows this. It is my belief we will get a WCC. It is my belief that economically speaking, management will squeeze out every last drop of this labor discount for as long as they can; the 11th hour.
Be great if you’re right.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Sun Aug 04, 2024 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah they are worse. But outright lying, misquoting, gaslighting is all fair game to a lot of posters here to shut down a debate.
My tone is direct. Always. Guilty as charged.
Old saying goes, can’t win an argument, go right to personal attacks, lying, misquoting.
I didn’t start it, I am happy to finish it and defend myself.
Big difference.
That's rich! You were temporarily banned from here after having what can only be described as a complete meltdown when I caught you lying and gaslighting.
One of the serial liars makes his appearance.
Predictable.
Don’t wreck this thread. Just leave.
Gotta love the irony of Rookie calling me and others liars when he's the one that has been caught lying by simply quoting his own older posts that he clearly thought he had deleted. When have you proven me a liar, rookie? You love to say "prove me wrong". Well, prove me a liar. I promise I won't have an epic meltdown like you did.
That's rich! You were temporarily banned from here after having what can only be described as a complete meltdown when I caught you lying and gaslighting.
One of the serial liars makes his appearance.
Predictable.
Don’t wreck this thread. Just leave.
Gotta love the irony of Rookie calling me and others liars when he's the one that has been caught lying by simply quoting his own older posts that he clearly thought he had deleted. When have you proven me a liar, rookie? You love to say "prove me wrong". Well, prove me a liar. I promise I won't have an epic meltdown like you did.
I am not interested Tbayer. Neither is anyone else.
My interest is in seeing our young folks do better. Across the board.
Gotta love the irony of Rookie calling me and others liars when he's the one that has been caught lying by simply quoting his own older posts that he clearly thought he had deleted. When have you proven me a liar, rookie? You love to say "prove me wrong". Well, prove me a liar. I promise I won't have an epic meltdown like you did.
I am not interested Tbayer. Neither is anyone else.
My interest is in seeing our young folks do better. Across the board.
Please cease, desist and leave.
That's what I thought. But hey, must of us would really love to see you follow your own advice and leave the professional pilot threads. You seem to be more involved in those than the GA ones where you ought to be.
Delta airlines top scale Captain is nearly quadruple 1st year FO.
1st year probationary pay is common throughout the industry, that's where it should end though. If it did at AC, you wouldn't have any 1st year FOs starting in WB jobs...
And how about stop derailing a thread that's trying to foster unity, support, and discussion within our group for the challenges in the weeks and months ahead. You guys are dragging up the failures of a bunch of fearful guys that were looking out for themselves, and are mostly either retired or gone into management. These are failures of a defunct reactionary organization. These are failures of government from forced arbitration to pension funding overreaches, just another example of Canadian corporate welfare suppressing labour by charter violation.. These are failures that 60% of the pilots here today are acutely aware of and trying to correct, failures that they didn't bring on, but themselves suffered through.
So how about a comment of support and then move on. Or if you're a pessimist and think Canadian pilots should pound sand and take what is offered you can tell us all to get fücked and then you can fück off too.
This, and If I were one of the FO’s at AC, I’d be all over this to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Doesn’t matter what posters here say that it’s different this time. Yeah, yeah, trust that as far as I could throw it.
This is Canada, proud member of old boys clubs, happy to screw the majority to enrich a few on the inside. Its much cheaper.
Prove me wrong.
Just to keep things on topic, the job isn't to prove you wrong. The job is to secure a long overdue world class contract for all Air Canada pilots. Once this is achieved, the rest will have fallen into place. We are merely 5 weeks away from a work stoppage. This is a significant event given the size and impact of this airline. Management knows this. It is my belief we will get a WCC. It is my belief that economically speaking, management will squeeze out every last drop of this labor discount for as long as they can; the 11th hour.
Be great if you’re right.
Why did you have to add, “if you’re right”, seriously dude you don’t seem to recognize antagonism, for the record you are always, always being antagonistic.
You could have responded, that’ll be great, period no need to add anything beyond that, or do you have some insecure reason that you need to point out, you support them making improvements but you don’t think they will.
Strike potentially by Sept 9(I believe), any reason to think between now and that day there will be a catastrophic collapse of the world economy, I mean you’ve been predicting this for years now, any day right!
Just to keep things on topic, the job isn't to prove you wrong. The job is to secure a long overdue world class contract for all Air Canada pilots. Once this is achieved, the rest will have fallen into place. We are merely 5 weeks away from a work stoppage. This is a significant event given the size and impact of this airline. Management knows this. It is my belief we will get a WCC. It is my belief that economically speaking, management will squeeze out every last drop of this labor discount for as long as they can; the 11th hour.
Be great if you’re right.
Why did you have to add, “if you’re right”, seriously dude you don’t seem to recognize antagonism, for the record you are always, always being antagonistic.
You could have responded, that’ll be great, period no need to add anything beyond that, or do you have some insecure reason that you need to point out, you support them making improvements but you don’t think they will.
Strike potentially by Sept 9(I believe), any reason to think between now and that day there will be a catastrophic collapse of the world economy, I mean you’ve been predicting this for years now, any day right!
Pilotguy007 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2024 4:55 am
I had a dream yr 1 fo was $100hr
That's more of a nightmare. It would only equate to 90k/year. Imagine after all this struggle and fighting, that the flag carrier only manages to match the same starting salary as Flair (an airline that charges $50 fares)
