Ice Pilots Started

[spaner]

Interesting,
If it was fought out in a court of law, then the procedure was correct.
A belly landing was not authorized, as it was not possible for the crew to retract the gear.
"Up-and-safe"?...NO

[Big Pistons Forever]

As a type rated Electra pilot and knowing most of the details of this event I would like to say that I think the crew should be commended for a well handled very significant emergency. They utilized every available resource and in the end collectively made a decision using excellent CRM to land with the remaining wheels down. The fact that the aircraft had so little damage is a testament to the skills of the crew.

[North Shore]

Electra, huh, BPF? Isn't that one of them stinkin' diesels?

Maybe you should change your handle: BP (Not quite) Forever...

[Beach 200]

Funny How Joe tried to downplay the whole Ice Pilots show being on board. Here's an article from the day after the accident happened.

http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2012/03/06/ho ... s-airline/

[YYZSaabGuy]

As a type rated Electra pilot and knowing most of the details of this event I would like to say that I think the crew should be commended for a well handled very significant emergency. They utilized every available resource and in the end collectively made a decision using excellent CRM to land with the remaining wheels down. The fact that the aircraft had so little damage is a testament to the skills of the crew.

BPF, welcome back - you've been missed!

[Adiabatic]

Thank you BPF!! And everyone else!

[Strega]

As a type rated Electra pilot and knowing most of the details of this event I would like to say that I think the crew should be commended for a well handled very significant emergency. They utilized every available resource and in the end collectively made a decision using excellent CRM to land with the remaining wheels down. The fact that the aircraft had so little damage is a testament to the skills of the crew.

Where/When did you get your type rating?

S

[Cam]

When does the show about an airline become an airline on a show. Reality TV is garbage. Re-enactments....reminds me of Rescue 911.

[wan2fly99]

Saw last nights show

CL-215 neat airplane but a pre-madona.

Don't understand how yu ship it? Wings and tail come off?

Also I wonder if they do get the Orion Looks cool to me that airplane

Anybody know if that new girl rampie is still there and if the girl that left in cargo there has returned?

Will they be doing a show in memory of Arnie and the mechanic that also passed away?

[single_swine_herder]

So I wonder if they looked into whether a P3 Orion as an ex-military aircraft can hold a Canadian Type Certificate before they decided to place a bid on the two Aero Union aircraft on the spur of the moment, .................. or will this be yet another situation where everything is all Transport's problem because they bought a pig in a poke that turns out to be bunch of scrap aluminum because they just thought "it sorta looked like an Electra."

Same situation as happened with the buyer of the ex-RCAF "Cosmos" that "looked like they were Convair 580s" and bought them from Crown Assets Disposal .... except they weren't Convairs .... and they sat there rotting for about a decade before ending up in third world countries and disappearing from the airfield in the dead of night.

[FlyGy]

Saw last nights show

CL-215 neat airplane but a pre-madona.

I assume you mean primadona which is italian for "First Lady" Not sure how that's relevant to an aircraft.

Don't understand how yu ship it? Wings and tail come off?

Last time they did a trans Atlantic ferry flight but I believe there are pictures of this particular plane being loaded onto a cargo ship on this forum somewhere if you look around.

Also I wonder if they do get the Orion Looks cool to me that airplane

Did you check their website? http://www.buffaloairways.com/index.php ... raft-fleet

Anybody know if that new girl rampie is still there and if the girl that left in cargo there has returned?

Hoping for a date are you?

Will they be doing a show in memory of Arnie and the mechanic that also passed away?

[Driving Rain]

Heard Rod say in last nights episode" I'm going to look at the Bronco" "another plane that's illegal in Canada". Meaning an OV10 Bronco birddog was also up for bidding, they even give a brief glimps of it. If you blinked you missed it. So yes, they're well aware that P3s are not Electras.
They were after parts and only parts no matter how the Ice Pilots show people spun it for entertainment purposes.


Don't understand how yu ship it? Wings and tail come off?
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=79979&p=749375&hil ... ed+on+ship#

[wan2fly99]

Anybody know if that new girl rampie is still there and if the girl that left in cargo there has returned?

Hoping for a date are you?

If I was 30 years younger

[shitdisturber]

So I wonder if they looked into whether a P3 Orion as an ex-military aircraft can hold a Canadian Type Certificate before they decided to place a bid on the two Aero Union aircraft on the spur of the moment, .................. or will this be yet another situation where everything is all Transport's problem because they bought a pig in a poke that turns out to be bunch of scrap aluminum because they just thought "it sorta looked like an Electra."

Same situation as happened with the buyer of the ex-RCAF "Cosmos" that "looked like they were Convair 580s" and bought them from Crown Assets Disposal .... except they weren't Convairs .... and they sat there rotting for about a decade before ending up in third world countries and disappearing from the airfield in the dead of night.

Not exactly, Kelowna Flight Craft bought them from whoever bought them from Crown Assets and brought all but one of them up to spec enough that they could be flown to YXX to be converted to tankers. The one that's left is still in YYC and it was planned to be the last one they overhauled; I see it's moved from it's location of the last decade or so recently so I assume they're working on it now. Great deal for KFC, how many Convairs are out there with a 5-tube EFIS system?

[Jonathan Goldsmith]

That was half an hour wasted watching that garbage. A film crew had more than an hour to set up for a shot of a large aircraft one gear up landing, and then show less than two seconds of a thirty second crash before cutting the shot to a shaky picture of out of focus sunglasses. The camera work looked like it was by two eight year olds fighting over a video camera while a third cranked back and forth on the zoom lens. Cut the out of focus shots of nothing.

[Beefitarian]

Who wants in?

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=86090

[wan2fly99]

Well saw the ad. I an just wondering if the show will deter people from applying after they see how they are treated and where they live

Just a thought

[Taiser]

Agreed! Two years of being completely treated like shit and yelled at with practically zero pay for a CHANCE at flying? And all the while hoping Joe doesn't start playing favorites with a new flavor of the month? No thanks...

[LuckyPilot]

Taiser more or less hit the nail on the head. Would you recommend tto any young pilot that they check out Buffalo, not unless you wanted to be hated for life. The show is enough to deter anyone from applying, not to mention the lack of compliance with labor law, TC regulations. What started out as pure entertainment for me , has turned into a disgusting example of whats wrong today in Canadian aviation. These are good times for operators, they can get away with just about anything because of manpower shortage on the part of the FED's. As long as no one gets killed, fill your boots boys!!!!

[Canoehead]

I'm curious; of those who 'slam' Buffalo, I wonder how much experience you have in the industry.
The reason I ask is because from my perspective, it seems to me like some people are afraid of hard work.

Go to Buffalo and work hard- don't complain and keep off the radar. Know your stuff- don't wait until the day before they throw you in the right seat to start learning the airplane(s). If you get hired at Buffalo to work the ramp, you start learning those airplanes in and out immediately- on your own initiative.

I see more and more new pilots who want everything for nothing, and have little respect for those who have gone before them and worked their asses off in conditions that many today can't even comprehend.

Hard work builds character, and it earns respect. Even from fellas like Joe.

Just my thoughts.

[Cat Driver]

Just my thoughts.

I second your thoughts.

Ice pilots is a TV show, the show and reality are not always the same.

For all the pilots here who bring up the " Get killed card "

How many pilots have been killed working for Buffalo Airways since they started many decades ago?

[oldncold]

many ex warbird aircraft can be used in canada in different roles they are issued a 'restricted' airworthiness ( not implying their are not a bunch of hoops to go through ). One of t.c.'s main concern is having a bunch of unqualified moneyed owners hoping in their "toy " doing 800+knots on a sat morn over urban canada and having a flame out. looks bad and looking bad these days is worse than the event.

[Colonel Sanders]

800+ knots over urban canada

I had no idea there were so many MiG-21's and MiG-29's
and SU-27's on the Canadian Aircraft Registry that they
filled the sky over Toronto!




PS See CAR 602.33 How many times in the history
of Canada has a charge been laid in respect of it?

[Taiser]

I'm curious; of those who 'slam' Buffalo, I wonder how much experience you have in the industry.
The reason I ask is because from my perspective, it seems to me like some people are afraid of hard work.

I did my time (twisting wrenches), in pretty crappy conditions, in pretty crappy areas of NW Ontario...bugs, cold, crap accommodations, etc... In spite of all that, I still loved it because I love airplanes! Then I decided it wasn't for me, the time away from home and the long wait for decent pay, no appreciation for long hours to get a plane going by midnight so it could be ready in the morning... it all adds up to getting fed up!

There was no way I was going to raise a family the way I wanted PLUS have all the toys I planned on getting on the wages I was making so I changed careers! ZERO regrets about it, but looking back, at least I had a paycheck!!! I felt bad for the pilots that worked at some of my outfits clients. Some of those dudes up where I was working weren't even getting payed!!! They were getting room and board instead and were happy to do it just to get some hours in! They figured since their TT was so low, it was the best they could get. This was over 20 years ago and appears to be still happening today.

I know Ice Pilots is a "dramatization" but man, if it is highly "dramatized" Buffalo is NOT doing itself any good in the advertizing department with this (but I still enjoy it) show!!!

I think we are our worst enemy, what other industry puts up with this kind of shit??

[Diadem]

I'm curious; of those who 'slam' Buffalo, I wonder how much experience you have in the industry.
The reason I ask is because from my perspective, it seems to me like some people are afraid of hard work.

Go to Buffalo and work hard- don't complain and keep off the radar. Know your stuff- don't wait until the day before they throw you in the right seat to start learning the airplane(s). If you get hired at Buffalo to work the ramp, you start learning those airplanes in and out immediately- on your own initiative.

I see more and more new pilots who want everything for nothing, and have little respect for those who have gone before them and worked their asses off in conditions that many today can't even comprehend.

Hard work builds character, and it earns respect. Even from fellas like Joe.

Just my thouhtsg.

I've worked just as hard as Buffalo's rampies, in colder weather, in smaller towns, for less money. They actually get paid a fair wage, and since they never get a day off, they make absurd amounts of money for such a position. Therein lies one of the problems however: I would like to spend some time with my family, and my job definitely does not come first; if you're a Buffalo employee, Buffalo comes first, and if you want time off work you can quit. Such is the case with Scott Blue trying to go home for Christmas in this season of Ice Pilots. Another reason I would never work for them is Joe; I'm sure the green FOs learn lots from him, but I started out flying with captains who had as much experience as he does, and they didn't constantly berate and harangue me. I didn't end up in the doghouse back on the ramp instead of flying because my captain was in a bad mood and I was an easy target.
Just about every new pilot I've met over the last few years has gotten into the industry by doing back-breaking work in bad weather for low pay, and not one expressed a sense of entitlement. The fact that not one of them would have worked for Buffalo if offered a job there had nothing to do with wanting everything for nothing; it was because they actually wanted to have a day off once in a while and work in an environment that was conducive to learning rather than terror. The sentiment that "I see more and more new pilots who want everything for nothing, and have little respect for those who have gone before them and worked their asses off in conditions that many today can't even comprehend" seems to be the typical "kids these days, they don't know how easy they've got it" we hear from every generation. Certainly, you worked hard, but we work hard too, and I can't help but wonder if there's a bit of resentment in this sentence that you didn't get to see us suffer even more than you did. Perhaps you were hoping life would be even harder for us than it was for you, and you would get to experience some schadenfreude at our expense, but you were severely disappointed to see that it wasn't any worse for us. Or perhaps you've only met the two or three people who genuinely think that they deserve to get a captain's position on King Air because they have a commercial licence and that makes them a professional pilot, but they are not representative of my generation by any measure. More importantly, those people don't get very far in aviation; the ones who can't or won't put in the effort get weeded out quickly.