Encore AME jobs

[NeverBlue]

I somewhat get your attitude.

Alright...who's stolen Pat's password and is logged into his account??

[azimuthaviation]

Sweet! I say go for it! Not sure the banks will take "perks" into account when you need a mortgage, loan, etc.. but it does sound awesome!

Maybe I am to old...focusing on things like actual base salary, retirement plans, and putting away actual cash. I know WestJet is a good place to work, I was there once upon a time and they are fair to their employees in regards to "work-life balance". I still have a lot of close friends that still work at WJ main and what I am hearing is the same thing I have seen at other airlines, which is a lot of carrot dangling at Encore.

But hey, what do you have to lose right? Just remember, if you have a pile of crap and you put rainbow sprinkles on it...it looks ok but the insides are still crap.

That's kind of shortsighted. If your career goals are only to accept the best current offer of base salary then you are missing out on a lot of opportunity and frankly, selling yourself short. Plus you arent going to step up into a new socio-economic class by leaving aviation and becoming a plumber, truck driver, mechanic etc...

Encore is having no trouble attracting quality techs, I know that for a fact. The reason they are always advertising new positions is that they are continually expanding, from one Q400 the day they started to seven today, less than a year in with more coming and routes expanding. Of course they are going to have intakes as new aircraft come online.

[Troubleshot]

First off, I am not questioning Encore's AME quality...but one has to wonder what kind of experienced AME's they are attracting at $24/HR. I am sure the lure of Flight benefits and telling people they work for WestJet is good enough for some...If you feel experience is over-rated then you are the one that is short-sighted (with all due respect)

Second, I left aviation with the skills I had and instantly made $35,000 more /year, received a company truck (to use as my own), 4 weeks of vacation from day one, I never work nights, I receive a substantial bonus every year, excellent benefits and retirement package, and my employer actually values my opinion. So it can be done, actually a lot easier than most are lead to believe. Guys, I am not gloating...this is real world. I have seen the grass on the other side...and it is indeed greener.

listen, I honestly don't have a beef with the job of fixing aircraft. It is very respectful profession. My beef is people here just not telling like it is. The reality is you make less than just about every trade out there, this is fact like it or not. Sure there will be the 10% that are doing well in aircraft maintenance but overall industry is in the decline...you just have to look at the pilot group to see the trend.

You want to see the Encore world start to fall apart, wait till the AME's feel they deserve the same money as the 737 guys....you'll see just how much WJ Encore values their work force then...it's coming trust me. Wait what's that? they say you may get that 737 job one day...maybe...but what about the other 90% of Encore AME's that don't? I am telling you ain't seen nothing yet...

Enjoy...

[azimuthaviation]

but one has to wonder what kind of experienced AME's they are attracting at $24/HR.

Top end guys, guys ten years in, that I know of. Start off with a three week Q400 course, a one week avionics course, a one week troubleshooting course, then you sit on a fleet of brand new aircraft flying easy routes. What kind of workload do you think they carry? Better than busting your hump for 12 hours straight trying to keep the 30 year old POS dash-8s that make up the Calgary fleet. No going home early on any of those night shifts, thats a guarantee. So far doesnt sound too bad.

Then tack on the bonuses every three months (that Encore guys get), the share matching program (that Encore guys get) and the flight benefits (that Encore guys also get). What does that add up to for working maybe 30 hours a week of which maybe half of that is actual work?

Yeah, such a terrible way to live...

[Fling Wing]

And people wonder why the pay in this industry is on a down hill slope...^^^^

[azimuthaviation]

And people wonder why the pay in this industry is on a down hill slope...^^^^

I guess cause of guys like this undercutting wages cause they think working on aircraft is cool:

not all of us do this for the money, there's guys like me who have a sense of adventure, like to travel ect. I'm quite happy getting paid to travel around the world working on helicopters, it sure doesn't pay the best, but for the amount of work that's required, and the experiences I've had, and the schedule I have, I'm pretty happy. I think I'll take the mind full of memories over the bank account full of money when I'm old.

[Troubleshot]

but one has to wonder what kind of experienced AME's they are attracting at $24/HR.

Top end guys, guys ten years in, that I know of. Start off with a three week Q400 course, a one week avionics course, a one week troubleshooting course, then you sit on a fleet of brand new aircraft flying easy routes. What kind of workload do you think they carry? Better than busting your hump for 12 hours straight trying to keep the 30 year old POS dash-8s that make up the Calgary fleet. No going home early on any of those night shifts, thats a guarantee. So far doesnt sound too bad.

Then tack on the bonuses every three months (that Encore guys get), the share matching program (that Encore guys get) and the flight benefits (that Encore guys also get). What does that add up to for working maybe 30 hours a week of which maybe half of that is actual work?

Yeah, such a terrible way to live...

Azimuthaviation,

My last job in aviation was with Porter Airlines so please don't try and school me on the work load of the Q400, Porter also gave me an endorsement course from day one...this shouldn't be counted as compensation. The Q400 is no 737NG, the work load is a lot higher on the Q...I am also endorsed on 737NG (from WestJet) so I speak from years of experience on both types...I have to ask what experience are you speaking from? the share purchase plan is good but only valuable if you invest like 20% of your salary (I was at WestJet remember)...so if you take full advantage of that to get a good return your salary is now $41000/year...holly crap ! go get that boat you've always wanted. Flight benefits...pretty hard to utilize flight benny's when you have no money to pay for a hotel, rental car, spending money once you get there....if you get there, or if you get back...one IROP and your stuck paying full fare to get back home to go to work, been there done that...

The bonuses you speak of...are you talking about the profit sharing? that works out to one extra pay every quarter if your lucky?

Just wait till these Q400's get some hours on them then we'll see who is going home early or kickin their feet up...you honestly have no idea what is coming which is cute...easy routes have nothing to with having to change a blade in buttfuck-nowhere in snowstorm because the prop deice doesn't work...you drop me a line when the ISFD shows a huge airspeed split at an outstation sometime (non-MEL-able), and you find the leak (cracked line) under the avionics rack behind the F/O seat on the floor...oh yeah, you'll think that dream Q400 is mother-fucker then...

Anyway, I agree with you that salary isn't everything however is so below the bar is hard for people to get past that wage. Once you get good experience on the Q400 and you find out what you can really make with that endorsement I think you'll start kickin some tires at other shops...just a guess...

[ourkid2000]

Just wait till these Q400's get some hours on them then we'll see who is going home early or kickin their feet up...you honestly have no idea what is coming which is cute...

The work load on the Q's gets massive pretty quick there's no doubt. Some of the A checks are huge.

[NeverBlue]

the share purchase plan is good but only valuable if you invest like 20% of your salary (I was at WestJet remember)...so if you take full advantage of that to get a good return your salary is now $41000/year...

your math is flawed...just because you invest your money doesn't mean it's not part of your overall salary anymore.

Flight benefits...pretty hard to utilize flight benny's when you have no money to pay for a hotel, rental car, spending money once you get there....if you get there, or if you get back...one IROP and your stuck paying full fare to get back home to go to work, been there done that...

Everyone has their own opinion on flight benefits...don't spend your money on frivolous things like a boat and you'll have enough for a hotel...
There's all kinds of ways to vacation cheap especially in places like Mexico, Carribean, South America, Central America, Thialand, ...etc.

No matter how many ways you slice it...IT'S STILL A CHEAP FLIGHT!

The bonuses you speak of...are you talking about the profit sharing? that works out to one extra pay every quarter if your lucky?

4 extra paycheques a year i.e. 2 months extra pay a year is way better than none at all....No?

[Troubleshot]

NeverBlue,

your little jabs are weak...

OK I'll dumb it down for you ... I invest about 15% of my salary every pay period...no my money is not gone, but can I use that money on a weekly bases to pay for my mortgage, gas, food, etc?...the answer is no. So if I am making a low salary to start with, how will I make a comfortable living while I am investing?

what happens if there is no profit for a year or two? What happen if the "perks" start to fade away...You are left with flight benefits and a crappy salary....I'm sorry the truth hurts but I didn't come up with $24/HR as the pay rate.

Any argument to defend this wage shows your head is stuck squarely in the sand, next you'll probably stick you fingers in your ears and start to yell next so you will no longer hear the facts anymore.

NEXT!

[NeverBlue]

what happens if

...why again are you doing aircraft work on the side?...oh ya, it's insurance because of "what if"

OK I'll dumb it down for you ... I invest about 15% of my salary every pay period...no my money is not gone, but can I use that money on a weekly bases to pay for my mortgage, gas, food, etc?...the answer is no. So if I am making a low salary to start with, how will I make a comfortable living while I am investing?

...that's dumb alright...yes you can use that money for mortgage, gas, food, etc. IN THE FUTURE when you don't have a job or are retired.

the share purchase plan is good but only valuable if you invest like 20% of your salary (I was at WestJet remember)...so if you take full advantage of that to get a good return your salary is now $41000/year......

...that is what you wrote and it makes no sense no matter how much you "dumb it down"...maybe you should look up what "return" is.

Any argument to defend this wage shows your head is stuck squarely in the sand,

I've never defended the wage...read my posts...I've only defended people who choose to take the wage and defended the fringe benefits.

[Troubleshot]

In The future? What about right now? Think the gas station will take "I'll pay you in the future" as payment on March 28th, 2014, The point is if you don't make very much money you can't do both...return on your investments should not be considered in your current day-to-day financial situation the point of an investment is to build principle over time and compounding it. I personally will use my returns to live on when I am 55, some people are more short term like a large purchase (car, vacation property) but you still have to leave it to grow...not use it to make ends meet today.

My financial advisor sums it up pretty easily...If you can't afford to live now, you won't be able to in the future either...simple but very true.

What does my wanting to keep my licence current have to do with Encore's pay scale? you are just grasping at straws now...is this the best you have to offer to this discussion?

You CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT use fringe benefits to live on.

[azimuthaviation]

In The future? What about right now?

The good hockey players go where the puck is, the great ones go where the puck is going to be. What I said about being short sighted, and selling yourself short. You let yourself get pigeon holed in your windmill gig, you might be satisfying yourself with less than you might otherwise receive.

Once you get good experience on the Q400 and you find out what you can really make with that endorsement I think you'll start kickin some tires at other shops...just a guess...

No, the Encore job is not something Im interested in. At all. But do you think maybe WestJet has considered that? They are confident enough to give out five weeks paid training per tech with no bond, in a city crawling with the same type of aircraft, you think they havent considered retention? Havent they thought that all their best guys will go work in the utilities?Or maybe they want to give free training to Cariboo and Sunwest as some sort of benevolence to their competitors?

received a company truck (to use as my own)

Yeah I know how that works. You can use it as much as you like. As long as no one sees you. You work at a wind farm? A couple sites far from any sizable community, at least an hours drive from Calgary? Maybe a couple sites a few miles apart. A company truck isnt a benefit, its a requirement. No one expects you to drive in your own vehicle to the site every day and use it for their business. So part of your job requires you to drive for 6 or 700 km a week, and maybe you can drive in town to get groceries once or twice a week and no one bats an eye if they see you. Big deal.

.so if you take full advantage of that to get a good return your salary is now $41000/year

Plus what? The extra pay every quarter? And money getting put away in the form of shares, which go up steadily and consistently. Not great, but not terrible. Some jobs pay better than others. You may be of the belief that equal work means equal pay, that everyone is entitled to top salary just for going to work everyday. But until the communist utopia comes to fruition, there will be disparity in wages between jobs, its not a crime against humanity, and its not a knock on the guys who take the job, or the employer for hiring them. I do encourage you, however, to send the CEO of WestJet a letter, outlining in detail exactly your egalitarian ideals, maybe they will take heed and adjust their payscale accordingly.

[Troubleshot]

In The future? What about right now?

The good hockey players go where the puck is, the great ones go where the puck is going to be. What I said about being short sighted, and selling yourself short. You let yourself get pigeon holed in your windmill gig, you might be satisfying yourself with less than you might otherwise receive.

Once you get good experience on the Q400 and you find out what you can really make with that endorsement I think you'll start kickin some tires at other shops...just a guess...

No, the Encore job is not something Im interested in. At all. But do you think maybe WestJet has considered that? They are confident enough to give out five weeks paid training per tech with no bond, in a city crawling with the same type of aircraft, you think they havent considered retention? Havent they thought that all their best guys will go work in the utilities?Or maybe they want to give free training to Cariboo and Sunwest as some sort of benevolence to their competitors?

received a company truck (to use as my own)

Yeah I know how that works. You can use it as much as you like. As long as no one sees you. You work at a wind farm? A couple sites far from any sizable community, at least an hours drive from Calgary? Maybe a couple sites a few miles apart. A company truck isnt a benefit, its a requirement. No one expects you to drive in your own vehicle to the site every day and use it for their business. So part of your job requires you to drive for 6 or 700 km a week, and maybe you can drive in town to get groceries once or twice a week and no one bats an eye if they see you. Big deal.

.so if you take full advantage of that to get a good return your salary is now $41000/year

Plus what? The extra pay every quarter? And money getting put away in the form of shares, which go up steadily and consistently. Not great, but not terrible. Some jobs pay better than others. You may be of the belief that equal work means equal pay, that everyone is entitled to top salary just for going to work everyday. But until the communist utopia comes to fruition, there will be disparity in wages between jobs, its not a crime against humanity, and its not a knock on the guys who take the job, or the employer for hiring them. I do encourage you, however, to send the CEO of WestJet a letter, outlining in detail exactly your egalitarian ideals, maybe they will take heed and adjust their payscale accordingly.

Oh man you are trying to school me on WestJet and Q400's and you don't even work there! this is a new level of BS...I am not gonna believe anything you have contributed in regards to what you think you've heard about Encore....

Pigeon-holed in my windmill gig?...looks like I have broadened my skill set. I can Fix airplanes and manage $75 million a power plant...who do you think is more employable here? or maybe you just don't know what Pigeon-holed means? I could go back to aviation tomorrow if I wanted ...I am just as employable in that industry too.

The thread is about is $24/HR for the Encore gig...once I shoot you all down about your profit sharing and your "perks" this is your last ditch effort to even remotely spit up any non-educated drivel on the subject.

write Greg a letter? seriously this is the best you guys can come up with while your industry eats you alive. No wonder aviation is in the toilet. That statement stinks of inexperience and arrogance.

No not everyone is entitled to "top salary", but you think the AME community would believe it is worth more than $24/HR...which is what the post is about by the way.

Oh and by the way the Truck I drive is 2014 Dodge Ram, it's considered part of my compensation package I use it as if it were mine everyday, everywhere, I use it on vacation, weekends, etc...I know you guys are having a hard time wrapping you head around these concepts of well paying jobs with more than just "perks" ...but I don't need to prove anything regarding that, the proof is in my driveway and in my bank account and that is good enough for me. Oh and I drive 40 KMs to work every day...that's it...7am-3pm. We even have free coffee but I don't tell my employees that is a "perk", bought them a BBQ last year but it wasn't on their T4's...

For god sakes NEXT!

[NeverBlue]

is this the best you have to offer to this discussion?

Actually you're doing just fine...no need for me to add anything more

this is the best you guys can come up with while your industry eats you alive. No wonder aviation is in the toilet. That statement stinks of inexperience and arrogance.

Ya know you say you have "friends" in aviation but where I come from friends don't speak of their friends livelyhoods like you do without someone taking them outside....just say'n.

...in the toilet.... ...I manage a $75 million farm....big deal ...like I said your hubris hilariously nauseating

[helicopterray]

I guess we all need to quit our jobs.
Then people will start throwing all sorts of money and perks at us. Because there's so many of those jobs with 6-figure incomes just begging to be filled.

[azimuthaviation]

I can Fix airplanes and manage $75 million a power plant.

How can you have developed that skill set when you just said you walked directly into that position?

you think the AME community would believe it is worth more than $24/HR

And what percentage of AME's in Canada are working for 24 dollars an hour do you think? Five percent? If that?

.I know you guys are having a hard time wrapping you head around these concepts of well paying jobs

Yeah, I worked the oil patch, my dad is in it, my brother is in it, my brother in law is in it, most of my uncles are in it. Half the people I grew up with are in it. None of them are as enthusiastic about their jobs as you are, and none of them think they found the door to easy street because they get to drive the company truck, so maybe you are trying to convince yourself how great it is. Or maybe they just dont know how great they have it.

I drive 40 KMs to work every day

Which puts you where? In some shitty town in SW Alberta? Telling everyone how great it is to be you?

Tell me then, why do you think you are paid as well as you say you are? What are they compensating you for? Not for a degree, not from nepotism, not because you are an electrical engineer, not because you make sales for them... Get real, man. I live in this world, and have been working in this province since I was 17. I know what the wages are, and what the conditions are, dont try to blow smoke up my ass. What do you know that I dont and that the other AME's dont?

[azimuthaviation]

Because there's so many of those jobs with 6-figure incomes just begging to be filled.

You couldnt pay me enough to move back to one of those shitty towns to take one of those jobs. They are able to recruit Troubleshot as well as many TFW's however.

Troubleshot may convince some people that theres a place where everything is perfect in every condition and great pay, for blue collar guys to step right into the corporate league. And theres room for every AME who wants to go. Unfortunately that isnt quite the reality.

[NeverBlue]

With the costs of windpower skyrocketing out of control we'll see which industry goes the way of the dodo bird first...

[Troubleshot]

Yeah you guys are right, aviation is the key. Nothing better out there. 24/HR is solid. Geez with wind on the way out I'm doomed...I guess the 20 year power purchase agreement with the utility will just go away and I'll be on the street and wishing I stayed in aviation. So closed minded....my company has a 7 billion dollar order book this year..,yeah we will be gone soon...

You know if you actually stepped outside your bubble you'd realize what your skills could bring you....but if you feel this is impossible well there is not much I can say is there?

When interviewed for my current position they told me they wanted a technically minded individual that has a high attention to detail...sound familiar? I know personally guys that left aviation to manage fleets, maintenance of manufacturing plants, gas turbine reliability managers at power plants , etc. ...but I guess you feel you guys can't step into a role like that eh?

You know advanced, forward thinking companies don't care if you know how develop an operating budget, what they want is a leader and a person that can use his base skills to keep a plant running. The other duties will be taught and they will train you to develop your business acumen....and you don't even have to sign a training bond!

More money, better benefits, better quality of life...what was I thinking?

[GyvAir]

With the costs of windpower skyrocketing out of control

Do you have some factual numbers to back that up?

[Troubleshot]

I love how we now have Wind industry experts here now that can fill me in on the state of industry. since you know so much please share with everyone how many wind turbines that will be constructed in Canada in 2014-15...I have an exact figure but since you guys are the experts please fill me in....

Just an FYI Canada is one of the fastest growing markets in the world. There will be many jobs as a result and all of them will pay more than Encore. The lowest rate will be in the range of $26/HR but most will be higher than that....

[Troubleshot]

Tell me then, why do you think you are paid as well as you say you are? What are they compensating you for? Not for a degree, not from nepotism, not because you are an electrical engineer, not because you make sales for them... Get real, man. I live in this world, and have been working in this province since I was 17. I know what the wages are, and what the conditions are, dont try to blow smoke up my ass. What do you know that I dont and that the other AME's dont?




First off I don't live in Alberta...head east like +2000KM's . I live in a town of 150000 people and my site is 40 KMs away..we have a Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Costo , etc..so no, I am not in woods somewhere living of the land...

So you are saying AME's can't run a wind turbine plant? Why? It is machine that requires servicing and troubleshooting and as a site manager you need to over see that and manage a staff of technicians...is this "smoke" to you?

look at this link...do you think you cannot do this job?

http://irecerp.capitalpower.com/OA_HTML ... ng_code=US

[NeverBlue]

Do you have some factual numbers to back that up?

Just read the papers. Ontarians are outraged at the rising hydro rates there. American states with wind power are showing the highest rates as well. Turbine geartrains are failing way earlier than predicted. Blades are failing. Reports out of Europe are showing maintenance costs much higher than expected with the units coming out of warranty. Turbine generation is considered unreliable when compared to the other forms. They have to be shut down when wind blows too hard.
Troubleshot himself has said maintenance contracts run at $250/hr. What maintenace is worth $250/hr???

It's a new technology and the history just isn't there yet...but it's starting to show up.

Is it sustainable? ... We'll see

I guess the 20 year power purchase agreement with the utility will just go away

Who knows...but what happened to the Nuclear plants in Ontario could happen again.

[NeverBlue]

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/ap ... rth-price/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/tele ... mised.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall ... ually-use/