Encore's Pay and Work Conditions

[monkey]

On a salary of 36400 you would pay:

Paycheck Calculator Result
Gross Pay $1,400.00
Federal Withholding $190.21
Provincial Withholding $131.10
Canada Pension Plan $62.64
Employment Insurance $26.32

Net Pay $989.73

Calculation Based On
Tax Year Jan. 2013
Annual Gross Pay $36,400.00
Pay Frequency Bi-weekly
Province Alberta
Federal Claims $0.00
Provincial Claims $0.00
Approved Shares $0.00
Annual Income Reductions $0.00
Pay Period Income Reductions $0.00

Average one bedroom in Calgary around $1200, by the time you factor in car insurance gas and food you are part of the working poor. Any pilot with any decent experience should not be working a McJob here.

Just to keep it in perspective WJ is sitting on 1.2 billion in cash and made 65 million last quarter. They can afford to pay you a respectable wage. Unfortunately it's more important for the share price to beat analysts target of 31 dollars next year than they care about you eating food. Maybe next years Christmas miracle will involve a food drive for the less fortunate Encore pilots.

[M. Essaie]

The salary described is roughly the same as the one I made as an FO living in Calgary 30 years ago. I had purchased a house in the northwest just off McKnight for $88,000. I see the same house was on the market last year for $434,000. Trying to live in the 2013 world with a 1983 salary - that would seem to indicate that life as an Encore FO would be painful in the extreme.

[POPANDCHIPS]

Good God.
Looks like my family and I truly dodged a bullet when I passed on this job. Why would anyone put themselves in debt to be part of this team.

[7thirtyseven]

Good God.
Looks like my family and I truly dodged a bullet when I passed on this job. Why would anyone put themselves in debt to be part of this team.

Q. How many WestJet "mainline" pilots put themselves into debt to join this team?
Q. Has it paid off?

Further Q. How much more debt would be incured at Encore as opposed to WestJet "mainline" or Jazz or Air Canada?

[POPANDCHIPS]

Q. How many WestJet "mainline" pilots put themselves into debt to join this team?
Q. Has it paid off?

Further Q. How much more debt would be incured at Encore as opposed to WestJet "mainline" or Jazz or Air Canada?

The story of those who joined Westjet and the results they had wont mean a thing when I can't put food in my children's belly or a roof over their head. I am truly happy for you if you can support a family on a Navajo FO wage and justify doing it after putting in so many years of hard work and sacrifice. For myself there were a ton of better options out there, and I took one.
Cheers

[rudder]

He isn't making a Navajo FO wage. He is making WJ pay, ESOP, dividends, and profit share and wants to continue to do so and believes that the best way to do that is for YOU to come to Encore and work for Navajo FO pay.

[7thirtyseven]

He isn't making a Navajo FO wage. He is making WJ pay, ESOP, dividends, and profit share and wants to continue to do so and believes that the best way to do that is for YOU to come to Encore and work for Navajo FO pay.

Nope just pointing out that Jazz is roughly 38g/year to start AC/WJA not much more, we are ALL living in glass houses...

[rudder]

Nope just pointing out that Jazz is roughly 38g/year to start AC/WJA not much more, we are ALL living in glass houses...

This has been discussed ad nauseam. And I am pretty sure that it is higher than $40K to start at Jazz. And there is certainly no comparison between the Capt scale at Jazz and the Capt scale at Encore.

When you factor in pay, pension, benefits, and tax free reimbursements the overall starting compensation at Jazz is well above anything that is being offered by Encore (or any other tier 2 carrier). Perhaps that is why AC is so enamoured with everybody else and not Jazz?

Low pay is hardly something to be proud of as a professional pilot.

[7thirtyseven]

Nope just pointing out that Jazz is roughly 38g/year to start AC/WJA not much more, we are ALL living in glass houses...

This has been discussed ad nauseam. And I am pretty sure that it is higher than $40K to start at Jazz. And there is certainly no comparison between the Capt scale at Jazz and the Capt scale at Encore.

When you factor in pay, pension, benefits, and tax free reimbursements the overall starting compensation at Jazz is well above anything that is being offered by Encore (or any other tier 2 carrier). Perhaps that is why AC is so enamoured with everybody else and not Jazz?

Low pay is hardly something to be proud of as a professional pilot.

Not proud of low pay, just saying we are all living in glass houses.... If you "factor in" stuff for Jazz, feel free to do the same for Encore, yes some of the stuff at Encore is less than desirable, but there are potential upsides that must be thrown in the equation. Eg Profit Share which (Im just guessing) will approach 10G for an Encore Capt next year.
The bottom line is this an Encore pilot is NOT enslaved to Encore, he/she has chosen Encore of their own free will presumably because he/she feels that choice is in theirs and their family's best interest. While they have chosen an uncertain path, and one that will entail a LOT of hard work, (you'd have to have your head farther up your ass than the average pilot not to think that being on the ground floor of an airline wont be hard work and plenty of "issues"), it is their choice. Over and above this must be an understanding that both the airline AND WestJet pilots recognize that mistakes have been made, and there has been a continuous effort at improvement.

[rudder]

Over and above this must be an understanding that both the airline AND WestJet pilots recognize that mistakes have been made, and there has been a continuous effort at improvement.

Well, until that improvement includes $$ then I presume that the lack of interest from more qualified applicants will continue. How long before the lack of qualified applicants stifles the Encore expansion plans? And for those sitting at Encore just putting in time until the move to WJ, what if WJ decides that one of the tools to control cost creep is a B-scale at WJ? Sound far fetched? You never know. So you may pay the price at Encore and then again at WJ for the remainder of your career.

WJ had a chance to get it right when everybody else got it wrong. But they too got greedy and struck out. I hope that the decision makers will recognize the folly of the current model and come back to it from a more enlightened viewpoint. But I won't be holding my breath.

In the meantime there is always somebody with a heartbeat and a commercial licence willing to sell their soul. And that is why pilots continue to be management's best bet and their own worst enemy. I look forward to the day that is no longer the case.

[AtlanticTour]

I have hesitated on applying because of the pay situation. I have a fair paying job in the Atlantic provinces, which is an affordable place to live and life is ok. However progression will be limited and I have accepted the fact I will have to move out west or to Ontario to further my career. As work is plentiful in Calgary, the wife has flexible jobs skills, and we have no children yet, plus we have had this discussion about whether we can afford this move and she is behind me. I am thinking of applying now, just to get in with Encore and ultimately have the chance to WestJet.

My goal is to get on with a major carrier, hopefully either WestJet or Air Canada, or maybe Sunwing or Air Transat.

How long do Encore pilots stay with Encore before going to WestJet? Is it realistic to think it'll happen within 4-5 years of going there, if I'd be hired on in the next few months?

Does WestJet still hire people off the street, or are all WestJet newbies coming from Encore?

What would pay and career progression be at Encore?

If I started at Encore tomorrow, are the following salary numbers realistic, assuming I upgraded at the start of Year 2?

Year 1 - Q400 FO - ~$40k
Year 2 - Q400 CA - ~$60k-70k
Year 3 - Q400 CA - ~$60k-70k
Year 4/5 - Q400 CA or WestJet - $60-80k?

Do pilots only work the 70 (or 80 hour) guarantee, or can they make extra money with soft pay to boost income a little bit, such as getting 85 hours in a month, perhaps an extra work day per month?

*When you transition to WestJet, do you go back to 1st year pay or do you get some longevity credit since you are with the same company?

Also, how are the folks at Encore finding it thus far? Does everybody go there hoping to make it to WestJet or do some plan on staying in the Q400 longer for seniority?

[Jack In The Box]

Never assume you will be upgraded reasonable fast. Even if they say it, and even it if it looks it. I don't understand how people can make this mistake...

[AirMail]

Never assume you will be upgraded reasonable fast. Even if they say it, and even it if it looks it. I don't understand how people can make this mistake...

Absolutely true! I've been promised quick upgrades twice in the past, first took twice as long, second three times as long as promised. Guess what, I won't make the mistake a third time. I'm sure it's happened to many folks, but like Jack said, never assume, plan for the worse case scenario.

[AtlanticTour]

Never assume you will be upgraded reasonable fast. Even if they say it, and even it if it looks it. I don't understand how people can make this mistake...

Very good point. I appreciate it.

[MUSKEG]

I find it slightly amusing that the first thing prospects do is take a poor salary and quickly add the bonus to justify getting on board. Management is under no obligation to pay bonuses but they are quick to point them out as income because they know how pilots think. It is very difficult to maintain the same profit margins needed to kick in bonuses when employee numbers expand rapidly. Hope it works out for you all.

[prop2jet]

Atlantic tour, you should read through all the threads on the topic of Encore. Many of the questions you ask have already been asked and more or less answered.

Going to Encore is no guarantee that you will get to WJ and one thing is apparently certain, you will be spending a lot of time at work in order to make ends meet, and then some. Unless you have a stash of cash or a partner to supplement your income, it sounds like you will be hard pressed to get by, unless of course you like living in a flop house with a bunch of others living out their "dream". If this is what you want, then go for it. Don't forget, show up for work every day and always say "yes" because the minute you say NO, those nice people at Encore/WJ will probably tell you something along the lines that you are not a "team player" and should go. Maybe once you finally get to WJ and are off probation you will finally be in a position to say NO.

[flyer 1492]

Don't forget, show up for work every day and always say "yes" because the minute you say NO, those nice people at Encore/WJ will probably tell you something along the lines that you are not a "team player" and should go. Maybe once you finally get to WJ and are off probation you will finally be in a position to say NO.[/quote]

You will still be a YES person until you have your captain seat at West jet.

[Lateralus]

I love how guys working at Jazz are more in the know about how things run at WJ then WJ employees. Thanks Prop and Flyer, Ill keep that in mind.

Merry Christmas

[Jack In The Box]

Never assume you will be upgraded reasonable fast. Even if they say it, and even it if it looks it. I don't understand how people can make this mistake...

Very good point. I appreciate it.

No problem my friend, I am not saying it can't happen and that it's bad to be positive....but plan for the worst. Especially financially. It'll save you a lot of trouble and potential bitterness.


I have a few friends, newly hired, who are bragging about being a captain in less then a year. And while I really hope that works out for them, it IS the aviation Industry we are talking about. And Encore is still figuring their operation out. I think its best to be patient.

[prop2jet]

I love how guys working at Jazz are more in the know about how things run at WJ then WJ employees. Thanks Prop and Flyer, Ill keep that in mind.

Merry Christmas

I don't profess to know more than WJ employees. There is truth to what I have said, and this does come from people I know at WJ who are perhaps a little more balanced.

[CAL]

i have been reading about encore....pay in aviation in canada as whole is not that great...but encore for what it is trying to do is disgraceful....I am surprised the senior folk at wj have no commented more on this I hope and trust they are not happy about this...wow thats pretty bad....come on guys give them a chance to have a life....

[planeless]

There's no way anyone can think this wage is acceptable for any pilot flying a q400, it doesn't matter if you work for them or not. I'm not picking on Westjet , Air Canadas starting wage is almost as bad.

[loopa]

To say the least - it's going to be an interesting next few years watching where the leaders of this industry are taking our careers. We have an equation in that too though in that if we don't like it, don't apply. The problem is what however? Your colleague will apply if you don't. Because they can probably support themselves for a short while, and they get into the "short term pain = long term pain" mentality.

Somebody once told me that I'd be a fool if I wasn't forecasting US salaries in Canada and working at star bucks half way across the country and seeing my own grave before 30. I laughed it off with ignorance that day.

[idledetent]

At last I have convinced my son to abandon his aspirations to become a pilot and instead become a power engineer. Two years at SAIT and start at 150,000.oo per year and go up from there. Live a good life and fly for fun not for peanuts. This profession is in a spiral dive and will have to crash before anything changes!!

I am so happy that he opened his eyes.

[flyer 1492]

Smart kid!!!!