doug ronan removed as director from copa

[xysn]

You'll need 5% of the membership to sign in order to call a meeting. You'll need 5% of the membership to sign in order to call a meeting. According to Wikipedia we have about 18000 members... So you'll need 900 signatures or this is dead in the water.

It's not dead in the water if you can't call a special meeting; you still have the AGM.

5-G Removal and Vacancies
(1) The Office of Director shall be automatically vacated:
b) if the Director is removed from office at an Annual General Meeting of members or a Special Meeting of Members, by resolution of which notice has been given and passed by a majority of the members present at the meeting;

Still the petition will be useful to make sure you have a list of people will will vote in favour of the removal motion at either the Special Meeting or AGM are there when the time comes to vote. Just make sure there's someone to actually table and second a motion, and majority of members to vote in favour. (In person or by proxy.)

[floatplaneflyer]

Have the Directors changes to the By-laws enacted by a Special Resolution on June 22, 2013 been approved by a vote of COPA members?

[floatplaneflyer]

Have the members of COPA voted on the By-law changes the Directors enacted on June 22, 2013 with a Special Resolution?

[DougRonan]

AOPA's Aviation EBrief weekly email has a "smart quote" today that is applicable to this whole thread - it is why I have stuck to my guns during this whole mess:

Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it."

-- William Penn,
British statesman and philosopher

[crazy_aviator]

In aviation , i have been there MANY times and sticking to your guns makes it soo much easier to look in the mirror at the end of the day! Maybe there should ALSO be a referendum of the membership with respect to renumeration of the "boss". As the fat cat politicians vote in major raises for themselves, the BC Liberals had to rescind their increases due to publicity, maybe publicity could make a change here

[kamikaze]

I'm not sure I'll sign for the following reasons:

I'm not sure Mr. Ronan WANTS back in. Even he gets back in, he would do so with all the peers that voted him out, which could be rather toxic.

Although I balked at the president's salary, it seems to be an entirely unrelated issue. Unless Mr. Ronan's disagreements were related to said finances.

I would vote for a simpler petition to oust those who have taken actions against the bylaws of the organisation though, which would be the chairman of the board, the entire board, or only those who voted to dismiss Mr. Ronan in the fashion that he was.

Replacing the board or a good chunk of them with some new faces and points of view of it could in turn help sort out the financial issue if there is indeed one.

What I'm reading is scaring me though ... 80-some percent salary? Lots of travel? Where's the promotion and lobbying?

This reminds me of the charities with 80% overhead ...

[Tom H]

Kamikaze

No one can tell you how to vote and in good conscience no one should try but please consider the following in your decision making process.

1)

I'm not sure Mr. Ronan WANTS back in. Even he gets back in, he would do so with all the peers that voted him out, which could be rather toxic.

Agree, but this rights the wrong that started the mess and a first step to dealing with the issue. Mr. Ronan may turn it down...but the wrong will have been dealt with and its his decision.

2)

Although I balked at the president's salary, it seems to be an entirely unrelated issue. Unless Mr. Ronan's disagreements were related to said finances.

Agree, but the Cat is out of the bag and the audit would end it regardless of the outcome and it now has to be dealt with, right or wrong.

3)

I would vote for a simpler petition to oust those who have taken actions against the bylaws of the organisation though, which would be the chairman of the board, the entire board, or only those who voted to dismiss Mr. Ronan in the fashion that he was.

I believe remaining points/motions cover this concern.

As someone else stated the issue has not been clearly responded to at this point and is now a issue of "confidence" in COPA to many. The cats are out of the bag and need dealt with, who knows what the outcome will be...maybe those that are angry are right, maybe there is more to the story and the Board/Administration is in the clear...I have my own opinions but they are just opinions.

A special meeting would clear the air, set the record straight, correct wrongs if there are any and allow things to move forward, if it doesn't happen then it will be a prolonged agony for all.

In my highly biased personal opinion

(edit corrected poor wording in summary comments)

[Cat Driver]

What exactly does the president do to earn about $550.00 every day seven days a week twelve months of the year?

[crazy_aviator]

Does the president of the USA make that much ?

[crazy_aviator]

Here is a web page about salaries for non-profits ,,,looks like ole sally anne has the other money pits beat by a long shot. BTW President of USA makes 400 G and is giving back 20,000 out of his heart ( in 2011 his income was about 800,000 ) LOL

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/b ... laries.htm

[Docav8or]

To answer a few questions:

Doug Ronan was never voted out. He was removed by a slimy illegal gimmick of refunding his membership. He was not removed by any legal means and there was no basis on which to fire him, so that couldn't be done either. There remain a number of Directors on the Board with scruples who support Doug.

Doug was doing a good job and was supporting his members and I can assure you that he still has those objectives. Fixing the system is what needs to be done. We need an accountable executive who can and will answer questions and be responsible for their actions. We do not need a self- serving dictatorship whose actions cannot stand close scrutiny . Doug will take his properly elected position if given the option. He can take the heat and has no problems standing for and defending what he believes is in the best interest of aviation and the members who elected him.

A Special Meeting to get these answers and ask for open, honest, above - board ethical and moral action is definitely called for.

I voted yes!

[kamikaze]

The prime minister makes 320,400$ per year ... I hate Harper, but I still think he earns that money better than Mr. the president of COPA ...

[nofate]

I signed the petition, but it needs a lot more signatures. Maybe put a notice in the COPA Flight for all members to sign.

[172cyoocytr]

I am signer number 68 to the petition. I will email my aviation contacts with the urls to the petition and this forum.

I encourage you to sign the petition and make your fellow pilots aware of the issue.

Here is the comment I wrote on the petition:

I've been a member for over 40 years. I owe my medical to COPA. In those days COPA helped its members understand the secret rules of government bureaucracy. Do we see much of that these days? Or are our servants at COPA too comfortable with their counterparts in government?

[PilotDAR]

Or are our servants at COPA too comfortable with their counterparts in government?

Herein lies my lingering concern. I am a personal witness to issues of great importance to COPA members (Noise compliance and external loads requiring STC's for two) being discussed at public TC meetings. I personally reminded the COPA delegate to these meetings (as I was a COPA member at the time) that these TC initiatives needed to be presented to the COPA membership for "public" opinion to be heard. I watched the COPA newsletter for "news" on these subjects, and did not see what I considered any meaningful "call to arms". Now, aviation is hurting for these two subjects not being highlighted for more "discussion" with TC.

Subsequent to that, I raised my concerns with Doug Ronan about COPA not adequately representing its members. As COPA did not react to my concerns about membership not being well represented in some important issues, I chose to not renew my membership. Funny though, I do still get emails from COPA affiliates trying to sell me aviation products!

As I am not a member of COPA anymore, I am not able to support the petition, otherwise I would. However, COPA members, be careful what you ask for, you might get it! If COPA leadership comes back for membership consultation, as it should be, will you all stand up and be heard? Back in the days of looming noise compliance requirements, I could not raise any ire in Canadian GA myself! So, I gave up, my prop was approved!

[172cyoocytr]

Here are links to email addresses of COPA personnel:

http://copanational.org/COPADirectors.cfm

http://copanational.org/committee.cfm

http://copanational.org/Contact%20Us.cfm

[AirFrame]

What I'm reading is scaring me though ... 80-some percent salary? Lots of travel? Where's the promotion and lobbying?

The financial statements are available on the COPA site to put this myth to bed with. In 2012, total revenue was about $1.75M, salaries and benefits paid were about $750K. So somewhere about 40% of revenue (a guess without using a calculator).

Membership income alone, yes, is about $800K, but note that membership income is also only about 40% of the gross income... They get money from lots of sources.

Also, there was $23K spent on Promotion, which seems low but that's with no reference to compare to... Most COPA members come in via word-of-mouth, I'd guess. $272K was spent on Printing, which I would guess is mostly the newspaper. Mine gets placed in the airport coffee shop when I'm through with it, I know others who take them to doctor's and dentist's offices... I'd say a lot of them are good advertising.

Anyone familiar with corporations of this size will recognize that $200K annual salary for the President is on the low end. Just saying.

All of that being said, I don't agree that they should be circumventing the by laws that the membership voted in only days before.

[skymarc]

Sorry COPA is not a coporation but an association.
Spending almost all membership revenues on salaries is overkill.
What is COPA doing for you? Not much these days.

[H Christensen]

<snip> What is COPA doing for you? Not much these days. <snip>

On a personal level, I'll miss the COPA newspaper. On the deeper issues, hardly at all.
I do appreciate, however, that this isn't all black and white; that there are some things COPA can be proud of accomplishing.
The difficulty now is that this board has gone beyond its Best Before date. There is the stink of decay that MUST be remedied. If you haven't already signed the petition, please do so.

[floatin]

The difficulty now is that this board has gone beyond its Best Before date. There is the stink of decay that MUST be remedied. If you haven't already signed the petition, please do so.

Couldn't agree more and I'm # 76 on the petition. My aircraft insurance is through COPA and is due for renewal next month. It will be renewed with another company not associated with COPA. I'm a long time COPA member and my membership is due for renewal in Sep and I see no reason to renew it, and I will certainly send a letter to Herr Putska explaining my stand.

For quite some time now the COPA top end has been an "OLD BOYS CLUB" and you either agree with them or your thrown out. Its high time there was a shakeup at the top and a total change of management and direction.

[BGH]

Good luck getting a meaningful responce from the president - I sent him an email stating my concerns & the reply was that my concerns were forwarded to the directors;no reply from anyone else in over a week - very poor.

I also have tried over the years to get a reasonable insurance quote on my 185 from copa insurance people,their reply was very high compared to others ;when queried as to why such a high quote I was asked if I knew that the 185 was a taildragger?????
This last time I waited 2 weeks for a reply from their latest attempt at offering insurance & their reply was that they would get back to me at renewal time - haven't heard back from them in over a year.If you joined copa for cheaper insurance then boy have you been suckered.

I was 58 on the petition.

Regards;
Daryl
1500860

[Taiser]

I just got a quote to insure my homebuilt through EAA C-Plan and was quoted about $635.00 for a year of coverage!!! Didn't get a quote from COPA yet, but I find it hard to believe they will beat that. Not much reason to be a member of COPA anymore, I'll miss the monthly newspaper, but that's not enough to justify the only reason to be a member. EAA is cheaper and the magazine they put out is nicer anyways.

Anybody know the reason they (COPA) dropped the magazine format and went to the newspaper format? Was it just cost?

Here's my new deal to remain a member... if COPA insurance beats that quote by the price (or near the price) of my yearly membership, I'll stay a member. We'll see how they do...

[jasmantle]

I just got a quote to insure my homebuilt through EAA C-Plan and was quoted about $635.00 for a year of coverage!!! Didn't get a quote from COPA yet, but I find it hard to believe they will beat that. Not much reason to be a member of COPA anymore, I'll miss the monthly newspaper, but that's not enough to justify the only reason to be a member. EAA is cheaper and the magazine they put out is nicer anyways.

Anybody know the reason they (COPA) dropped the magazine format and went to the newspaper format? Was it just cost?

Here's my new deal to remain a member... if COPA insurance beats that quote by the price (or near the price) of my yearly membership, I'll stay a member. We'll see how they do...

On our group-owned C172, the quote from the COPA insurer was about $4400 - from the old insurance broker the insurance was a bit more than $2300. We didn't need to purchase the corporate COPA membership either.

YMMV.

[North Shore]

Hello, COPA? Anyone there?

I'm not a member, so I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but I'm beginning to see a pattern here: tons of disgruntled members bitching in public... time to step up and do something about it, I think. If not, the grassroots are going to shrivel up and die, leaving you membershipless...

[AirFrame]

I'm not a member, so I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but I'm beginning to see a pattern here: tons of disgruntled members bitching in public... time to step up and do something about it, I think. If not, the grassroots are going to shrivel up and die, leaving you membershipless...

76 members out of 20000 is "tons"? More like "less than half a percent of membership whining behind anonymous names on an internet forum."

After reading the "AvCanada" side of the story, it does appear that the COPA board has pulled a boner... Acting outside the bylaws to remove a dissenting voice. But it also seems like very few of its members care. Until someone on the board breaks silence and gives "the other side of the story," it's hard to be certain exactly what happened.

Disclaimer: I am a COPA member, and I'm also insured through COPA's insurer (hey, they had the lowest bid this year... I was surprised too).