AC and TRZ Agree to Terminate Arrangement

[Monkey_in_a_suit]

I agree with your summary Altpiano. While AC is off the hook to buy after Feb 15th, Air Transat is off the hook to sell. So they could entertain other offers. It's unlikely they would receive a better one, but that is one reason I could think of AC agreeing to extend the deadline.

Right. That's the only advantage to AC to agree to extend, but I don't believe there are any other viable or realistic suitors at this point that AC is worried about.

The Transat board already dismissed another offer that could have been superior depending on where the AC stock goes.

I bet they're kicking themselves now over not taking Groupe Mach back at the start of all this... that deal would have been all wrapped and done, with shareholders paid before Covid reared it's head. Instead the competition bureau and regulatory assessments drag out and deal value gets slashed... It's a good reminder that a bird in hand can be worth 2 in the bush.

AC will extract whatever leverage they can now.

The government has shown that maintaining jobs in Quebec is their priority in it all... AC will hold that out to get a better support package, or relief somehow.

Really I think it's laughable though... The a Canadian Federal Government shouldn't care where the jobs are, Quebec, Alberta, Ontario... they should just care that the jobs are Canadian.

Yup. That sums it up. AC also could take the hulls and disperse 1500 from other departments to meet the agreement if they move ahead after the 15th.

Cappo1 you realize that the 1500 jobs in the government conditions is covering the non unionized work groups as its up to the employer to negotiate their transfer. For all unionized work groups we have a convention and if needed the CIRB that protects us. Air Canada is on record saying they will respect all collective bargaining agreements. Unless AC intends not to hire a single pilot in the next 10 years, you're dream of Air Transat pilots being left out in the cold is about as retarded as you.

[columbia]

Right. That's the only advantage to AC to agree to extend, but I don't believe there are any other viable or realistic suitors at this point that AC is worried about.

The Transat board already dismissed another offer that could have been superior depending on where the AC stock goes.

I bet they're kicking themselves now over not taking Groupe Mach back at the start of all this... that deal would have been all wrapped and done, with shareholders paid before Covid reared it's head. Instead the competition bureau and regulatory assessments drag out and deal value gets slashed... It's a good reminder that a bird in hand can be worth 2 in the bush.

AC will extract whatever leverage they can now.

The government has shown that maintaining jobs in Quebec is their priority in it all... AC will hold that out to get a better support package, or relief somehow.

Really I think it's laughable though... The a Canadian Federal Government shouldn't care where the jobs are, Quebec, Alberta, Ontario... they should just care that the jobs are Canadian.

Yup. That sums it up. AC also could take the hulls and disperse 1500 from other departments to meet the agreement if they move ahead after the 15th.

Cappo1 you realize that the 1500 jobs in the government conditions is covering the non unionized work groups as its up to the employer to negotiate their transfer. For all unionized work groups we have a convention and if needed the CIRB that protects us. Air Canada is on record saying they will respect all collective bargaining agreements. Unless AC intends not to hire a single pilot in the next 10 years, you're dream of Air Transat pilots being left out in the cold is about as retarded as you.

Exactly.

[LittleNelly]

This talk from the transat side is borderline delusional. No it is not good for any employee group and no not everyone will have jobs. If the air transat flight ops department even survives this it will be considerably smaller.
Just look at all your now defunct air transat routes
Montreal – Basel
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 BSL Slots

Montréal – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 LGW Slots

Toronto – Glasgow
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 GLA Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Toronto – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter LGW Slots

Toronto - Manchester
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 MAN Slots

Vancouver – London Gatwick*
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YVR Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 LGW Slots

Toronto – Amsterdam
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 AMS Slots
Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Brussels
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 BRU Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Toronto – Zagreb
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 ZAG Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Bordeaux
 Slot Surrender Measure: 1 summer YUL Slot

Montréal – Lyon
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 LYS Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YUL Slots

Montréal – Nice
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 NCE Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Montréal – Marseille
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YUL Slots

Montréal – Paris
 Slot Surrender Measure: 14 CDG Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 14 YUL Slots
Montréal – Toulouse
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 summer YUL Slots

Toronto – Paris
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 CDG Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Greece
Montréal – Athens
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YUL Slots

Toronto – Athens
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YYZ Slots

Toronto – Dublin
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 DUB Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Rome
 Slot Surrender Measure: 6 FCO Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 6 YUL Slots

Montréal – Venice
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 VCE Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Toronto – Rome
 Slot Surrender Measure: 7 summer FCO Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 7 summer YYZ Slots

Toronto – Venice
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 VCE Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Fort de France
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots

Montréal – Pointe a Pitre
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots

Montréal – Lisbon
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 LIS Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Toronto – Lisbon
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 LIS Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YYZ Slots

Toronto – Porto
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 OPO Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Barcelona
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 BCN Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YUL Slots

Toronto – Barcelona
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 summer / 2 winter YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 summer / 2 winter BCN Slots

Montréal – Basel
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 BSL Slots

Montréal – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 LGW Slots

Toronto – Glasgow
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 GLA Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Toronto – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter LGW Slots

Toronto - Manchester
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 MAN Slots

Vancouver – London Gatwick*
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YVR Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 LGW Slots

[brooks]

You can bet WestJet is licking their chops on those slots. They're probably calling Boeing right now about those 10 787 options.

[rudder]

You can bet WestJet is licking their chops on those slots. They're probably calling Boeing right now about those 10 787 options.

Talk is cheap. Let’s see ONEX open it’s wallet.

[landshark]

I’m sure finding slots over the next few years won’t be too hard!

[tsgas]

You can bet WestJet is licking their chops on those slots. They're probably calling Boeing right now about those 10 787 options.

Slots won't make you any money if you can't fill your planes with high paying pax.

[GATRKGA]

This talk from the transat side is borderline delusional. No it is not good for any employee group and no not everyone will have jobs. If the air transat flight ops department even survives this it will be considerably smaller.
Just look at all your now defunct air transat routes
Montreal – Basel
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 BSL Slots

Montréal – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 LGW Slots

Toronto – Glasgow
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 GLA Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Toronto – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter LGW Slots

Toronto - Manchester
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 MAN Slots

Vancouver – London Gatwick*
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YVR Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 LGW Slots

Toronto – Amsterdam
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 AMS Slots
Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Brussels
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 BRU Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Toronto – Zagreb
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 ZAG Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Bordeaux
 Slot Surrender Measure: 1 summer YUL Slot

Montréal – Lyon
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 LYS Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YUL Slots

Montréal – Nice
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 NCE Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Montréal – Marseille
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YUL Slots

Montréal – Paris
 Slot Surrender Measure: 14 CDG Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 14 YUL Slots
Montréal – Toulouse
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 summer YUL Slots

Toronto – Paris
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 CDG Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Greece
Montréal – Athens
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YUL Slots

Toronto – Athens
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YYZ Slots

Toronto – Dublin
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 DUB Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Rome
 Slot Surrender Measure: 6 FCO Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 6 YUL Slots

Montréal – Venice
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 VCE Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Toronto – Rome
 Slot Surrender Measure: 7 summer FCO Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 7 summer YYZ Slots

Toronto – Venice
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 VCE Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Fort de France
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots

Montréal – Pointe a Pitre
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots

Montréal – Lisbon
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 LIS Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Toronto – Lisbon
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 LIS Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YYZ Slots

Toronto – Porto
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 OPO Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Barcelona
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 BCN Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YUL Slots

Toronto – Barcelona
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 summer / 2 winter YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 summer / 2 winter BCN Slots

Montréal – Basel
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 BSL Slots

Montréal – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 LGW Slots

Toronto – Glasgow
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 GLA Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Toronto – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter LGW Slots

Toronto - Manchester
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 MAN Slots

Vancouver – London Gatwick*
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YVR Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 LGW Slots

I’m not sure about recall rights at ac, but at air transat they have 10 years to be recalled. I don’t think it’s delusional to think every ts pilot will have a job coming out of this sooner or later.

Also +1 to what monkeyinasuit said.

Every ts Pilot will get integrated into the seniority list and will be able to bid when there’s a position on the acms that their seniority holds. It really is the end of story, and the 5-10 year collective group will be better cause of it.

Like it or not, it is what it is. Good luck guys.

[LittleNelly]

This talk from the transat side is borderline delusional. No it is not good for any employee group and no not everyone will have jobs. If the air transat flight ops department even survives this it will be considerably smaller.
Just look at all your now defunct air transat routes
Montreal – Basel
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 BSL Slots

Montréal – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 LGW Slots

Toronto – Glasgow
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 GLA Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Toronto – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter LGW Slots

Toronto - Manchester
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 MAN Slots

Vancouver – London Gatwick*
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YVR Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 LGW Slots

Toronto – Amsterdam
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 AMS Slots
Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Brussels
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 BRU Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Toronto – Zagreb
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 ZAG Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Bordeaux
 Slot Surrender Measure: 1 summer YUL Slot

Montréal – Lyon
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 LYS Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YUL Slots

Montréal – Nice
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 NCE Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Montréal – Marseille
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YUL Slots

Montréal – Paris
 Slot Surrender Measure: 14 CDG Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 14 YUL Slots
Montréal – Toulouse
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 summer YUL Slots

Toronto – Paris
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 CDG Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Greece
Montréal – Athens
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YUL Slots

Toronto – Athens
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YYZ Slots

Toronto – Dublin
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 DUB Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Rome
 Slot Surrender Measure: 6 FCO Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 6 YUL Slots

Montréal – Venice
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 VCE Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Toronto – Rome
 Slot Surrender Measure: 7 summer FCO Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 7 summer YYZ Slots

Toronto – Venice
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 VCE Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Fort de France
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots

Montréal – Pointe a Pitre
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots

Montréal – Lisbon
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 LIS Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots

Toronto – Lisbon
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 LIS Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YYZ Slots

Toronto – Porto
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 OPO Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YYZ Slots

Montréal – Barcelona
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 BCN Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YUL Slots

Toronto – Barcelona
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 summer / 2 winter YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 summer / 2 winter BCN Slots

Montréal – Basel
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 2 BSL Slots

Montréal – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 YUL Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 3 LGW Slots

Toronto – Glasgow
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 GLA Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots

Toronto – London Gatwick *
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 9 summer / 7 winter LGW Slots

Toronto - Manchester
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 YYZ Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 5 MAN Slots

Vancouver – London Gatwick*
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 YVR Slots
 Slot Surrender Measure: 4 LGW Slots

I’m not sure about recall rights at ac, but at air transat they have 10 years to be recalled. I don’t think it’s delusional to think every ts pilot will have a job coming out of this sooner or later.

Also +1 to what monkeyinasuit said.

Every ts Pilot will get integrated into the seniority list and will be able to bid when there’s a position on the acms that their seniority holds. It really is the end of story, and the 5-10 year collective group will be better cause of it.

Like it or not, it is what it is. Good luck guys.

And just how is it better for the collective group? Maybe for some transat employees, not a single employee from air canada will benefit from this. Even the government agrees it is just charity to rescue a few transat employees now.
Sure if AC restarts Air Transats flight operations on a small scale than those lucky 200ish will get integrated, the rest well they won’t be so happy where they end up but at least they would keep years of service for pay. Or the worst case AIr Canada completely shuts down air transat and just keeps the vacation side as the new air canada vacations, ain’t no recall rights to a company that doesn’t exist anymore.
Air canadas plan is to slash and burn air transat to the ground, yet you have a rival bid that wants to maintain Transat in all its ‘glory’. How would that not be better for the 5000+ transat employees

[ayseven]

Well, as a complete outsider, who will never work in aviation again, it looks like AC is not going to be hiring new pilots for a long long, long time.

[rudder]

Well, as a complete outsider, who will never work in aviation again, it looks like AC is not going to be hiring new pilots for a long long, long time.

Just a guess but all surplus AC/TS pilots back by spring 2023 and hiring Q1 2024.

[altiplano]

I've been saying it since the start of this. There was always going to be less for pilots in this deal. Fewer jobs, fewer flights, fewer aircraft.

MBA vanity project. Not good for employees or customers... or likely shareholders.

[tsgas]

Well, as a complete outsider, who will never work in aviation again, it looks like AC is not going to be hiring new pilots for a long long, long time.

Just a guess but all surplus AC/TS pilots back by spring 2023 and hiring Q1 2024.

There will be many , many increases in the carbon taxes by then. So at best it's a Wild Card.

[rudder]

With the EU approval delayed (again), date of corporate closing (DCC) will be pushed out to the April-July 2021 time frame.

By year end, the merger and a COVID impacted schedule will combine for a surplus of around 900 pilots (600/300 respectively). Recovery, displacement, and training will take 18-24 months. A lot of AC age based attrition for 2021/2022/2023 was taken up by the approximately 200 early outs.

Summer 2023 seems like a reasonable projection for capacity akin to summer 2019 (less the overlap from the AC/TS flying). It seems entirely possible that AC will need to add a pilot not currently on either list for the next peak of summer 2024 therefore hiring Q1 2024.

All of the above presumes no lingering effects of COVID nor restricted travel mobility. It will be driven by pace of economic recovery and lifting of travel restrictions.

[GATRKGA]

With the EU approval delayed (again), date of corporate closing (DCC) will be pushed out to the April-July 2021 time frame.

By year end, the merger and a COVID impacted schedule will combine for a surplus of around 900 pilots (600/300 respectively). Recovery, displacement, and training will take 18-24 months. A lot of AC age based attrition for 2021/2022/2023 was taken up by the approximately 200 early outs.

Summer 2023 seems like a reasonable projection for capacity akin to summer 2019 (less the overlap from the AC/TS flying). It seems entirely possible that AC will need to add a pilot not currently on either list for the next peak of summer 2024 therefore hiring Q1 2024.

All of the above presumes no lingering effects of COVID nor restricted travel mobility. It will be driven by pace of economic recovery and lifting of travel restrictions.

Glad to see someone with a reputation and a good head on their shoulders see the obvious in that everyone will have jobs in a few years.

I really don’t get the delusional thinking from some in here that are somehow inspired by the thought of people ending up jobless because of some sad personal agenda against this acquisition. It is pathetic and I look forward to seeing you backtrack your sentiments when everyone is on the list by the end of 2021.

I've been saying it since the start of this. There was always going to be less for pilots in this deal. Fewer jobs, fewer flights, fewer aircraft.

MBA vanity project. Not good for employees or customers... or likely shareholders.

Perhaps for the immediate future but everyone currently at property will not end up job less unless it’s by their own choice to leave the integrated seniority list voluntarily.

Everyone will be on the list, whether you like it or not.

Tsgas, by your opinion, why acquire ts. Just let it die and let your own product raise from the ashes. Why dish out money for ts? Especially when slots aren’t worth that much right? Get your head out of your rear end bud. You answered your own question too about why transat wouldn’t just take the superior offer that would Keep everyone seeming employed... clearly because Ac has a plan and slashing ts to the ground isn’t part of it.

Here’s something everyone needs to understand about transat. With our without the acquisition, they will survive. Quebec will not let their star go out of business. They may be leveraged up the ying yang but they will survive. It’s why ac wants control of it because you don’t want a transat sprung loose when we eventually come out of this. You rather control it. And before you start quoting bs from earnings calls, I recommend you give a few securities lawyers a call over at faskeneau and learn a bit about the details in why a company like transat would publicly and politically make it seem like it’s failing. Sheeple believe everything they read on fine print. Let me guess, you think the com also saves your ass in an accident right? Lol, noob.

You may have immediate positions lost but long term everyone will be on the ACPA/alpa seniority list depending on how that vote goes.

Good luck everyone.

[800man]

Genuine question to the guys who think TS will be parted out, and the pilots permanently left on the street.
Purely from a pilot-centric perspective, can you name a single precedent that would support that trajectory? Specifically, a single ALPA represented pilot group, just, liquidated? C'mon.
On a side note. Us 600 aren't gonna take all your jobs. Sheesh. Hopefully in 3 years when I have a paycheque again I can buy a few rounds on the next layover.

[dash8driver]

From following this thread it appears both sides of whether or not all Transat Pilots will go to Air Canada are self serving: The majority of those for all Transat Pilots to go to AC are extremely confident it will happen, and those against highly doubtful. Again it’s not everyone but it seems that way for the majority of comments.

[altiplano]

I really don’t get the delusional thinking from some in here that are somehow inspired by the thought of people ending up jobless because of some sad personal agenda against this acquisition. It is pathetic and I look forward to seeing you backtrack your sentiments when everyone is on the list by the end of 2021.

I've been saying it since the start of this. There was always going to be less for pilots in this deal. Fewer jobs, fewer flights, fewer aircraft.

MBA vanity project. Not good for employees or customers... or likely shareholders.

Perhaps for the immediate future but everyone currently at property will not end up job less unless it’s by their own choice to leave the integrated seniority list voluntarily.

Everyone will be on the list, whether you like it or not.

You don't understand.

Your agenda is clear... but you fail to understand that everyone being on the list is not the same as the amount of flying or number of jobs.

1+1 = <2

really...

1+1 = 1

or pretty damn close to 1.

This isn't a situation where the sum of parts is equal or greater than the parts individually.

[LittleNelly]

There is definitely a lack of basic math being done here. What is so hard to understand that this deal eliminates almost all flying and thus positions at transat.
Air Canadas plan has been revealed and it appears to be al,ost entirely shutting transats own flight operations, it’s right in the agreement!

Here is as simple as it can be said. Transat operated at what 5000ish employees, under the deal air canada will have an entire leisure operation(including transat at, rouge, and acv) of around 1500. That’s negative 3500 required employees.

Math agrees that this deal means less jobs, everything else is just opinion.

[FL320]

There is definitely a lack of basic math being done here. What is so hard to understand that this deal eliminates almost all flying and thus positions at transat.
Air Canadas plan has been revealed and it appears to be al,ost entirely shutting transats own flight operations, it’s right in the agreement!

Here is as simple as it can be said. Transat operated at what 5000ish employees, under the deal air canada will have an entire leisure operation(including transat at, rouge, and acv) of around 1500. That’s negative 3500 required employees.

Math agrees that this deal means less jobs, everything else is just opinion.

Transat has always been honest with the employees: this deal will lead to job cuts for some of the non-unionized employees. For unionized groups (Pilots/FAs/Mechanics)..the purchase of Transat AT means the purchase of all collective agreements (Air Transat); shutting down Air Transat flights ops (which will not happen anyway in the near future) wouldn’t change anything, AT’s unions will have to deal with Air Canada no matter what. If the purchase is finalized, we will all become brother and sisters; and I agree in the current climate this is not great.

[LittleNelly]

There is definitely a lack of basic math being done here. What is so hard to understand that this deal eliminates almost all flying and thus positions at transat.
Air Canadas plan has been revealed and it appears to be al,ost entirely shutting transats own flight operations, it’s right in the agreement!

Here is as simple as it can be said. Transat operated at what 5000ish employees, under the deal air canada will have an entire leisure operation(including transat at, rouge, and acv) of around 1500. That’s negative 3500 required employees.

Math agrees that this deal means less jobs, everything else is just opinion.

Transat has always been honest with the employees: this deal will lead to job cuts for some of the non-unionized employees. For unionized groups (Pilots/FAs/Mechanics)..the purchase of Transat AT means the purchase of all collective agreements (Air Transat); shutting down Air Transat flights ops (which will not happen anyway in the near future) wouldn’t change anything, AT’s unions will have to deal with Air Canada no matter what. If the purchase is finalized, we will all become brother and sisters; and I agree in the current climate this is not great.

You sure there is no threat of completely shutting your flight ops? Air Canada will be faced with a decision whether to restart Air Transats completely grounded operations at a cost of $500 million to $1 billion in the face of no government aid. Or just use its own lift. At worst Air Transat is completely shut down except for the tour operator which means those contracts won’t save anyone. At best a much smaller operation only requiring a few hundred pilots leaving the bottom 400+ to get stapled. How is that better for the Transat employees, save for the lucky top few?
And no everyone will not be brother and sister. Just look at the caviler attitude displayed to your fellow Transat employees that are expected to loose their jobs so a few lucky pilots can benefit.

[rudder]

AC has not yet clearly described what it has planned operationally in a post acquisition world. Therefore, that plan has also not yet been tested against the ACPA Article 1 provisions which are in force. To be clear - AC is buying TRZ, not the other way around. That matters because it is AC (corporate) in control of the operational plan, subject to the conditions of the CDN and EU approvals.

AC has already run its COVID reduction bid. A follow on bid is now running to fine tune that bid and account for fleet changes over the next 12-18 months including the addition of the 767 cargo operation, and the reinstatement of 196 surplus pilots. It still means that 600 AC pilots do not hold a position and are on lay-off.

TS is yet to run a reduction bid as the operation for all intents and purposes is suspended, and it has no guidance from AC about what the TS fleet or flying will look like for the remainder of 2021 and 2022.

Eventually, TS will resume some operations. And until replaced following a representation determination, seniority integration, and joint collective bargaining - the TS pilot collective agreement will remain in full force.

Almost anyone with a couple of decades in the industry has seen this drill before. There will be no revelations. No epiphanies. No reinventing of the wheel. Instead, the process will unfold over the remainder of 2021 and eventually lead to a result in 2022 that will apply to the consolidated pilot group.

[Fanblade]

AC has not yet clearly described what it has planned operationally in a post acquisition world. Therefore, that plan has also not yet been tested against the ACPA Article 1 provisions which are in force. To be clear - AC is buying TRZ, not the other way around. That matters because it is AC (corporate) in control of the operational plan, subject to the conditions of the CDN and EU approvals.

AC has already run its COVID reduction bid. A follow on bid is now running to fine tune that bid and account for fleet changes over the next 12-18 months including the addition of the 767 cargo operation, and the reinstatement of 196 surplus pilots. It still means that 600 AC pilots do not hold a position and are on lay-off.

TS is yet to run a reduction bid as the operation for all intents and purposes is suspended, and it has no guidance from AC about what the TS fleet or flying will look like for the remainder of 2021 and 2022.

Eventually, TS will resume some operations. And until replaced following a representation determination, seniority integration, and joint collective bargaining - the TS pilot collective agreement will remain in full force.

Almost anyone with a couple of decades in the industry has seen this drill before. There will be no revelations. No epiphanies. No reinventing of the wheel. Instead, the process will unfold over the remainder of 2021 and eventually lead to a result in 2022 that will apply to the consolidated pilot group.

Listen to him!

We will be integrated based on what a panel believes is fair. End of story. The only thing rationalizations, justifications and excuses do, is create unrealistic expectations and hostility.

The only thing that derails Rudders comments is if the acquisition falls apart.

[tsgas]

With the EU approval delayed (again), date of corporate closing (DCC) will be pushed out to the April-July 2021 time frame.

By year end, the merger and a COVID impacted schedule will combine for a surplus of around 900 pilots (600/300 respectively). Recovery, displacement, and training will take 18-24 months. A lot of AC age based attrition for 2021/2022/2023 was taken up by the approximately 200 early outs.

Summer 2023 seems like a reasonable projection for capacity akin to summer 2019 (less the overlap from the AC/TS flying). It seems entirely possible that AC will need to add a pilot not currently on either list for the next peak of summer 2024 therefore hiring Q1 2024.

All of the above presumes no lingering effects of COVID nor restricted travel mobility. It will be driven by pace of economic recovery and lifting of travel restrictions.

Glad to see someone with a reputation and a good head on their shoulders see the obvious in that everyone will have jobs in a few years.

I really don’t get the delusional thinking from some in here that are somehow inspired by the thought of people ending up jobless because of some sad personal agenda against this acquisition. It is pathetic and I look forward to seeing you backtrack your sentiments when everyone is on the list by the end of 2021.

I've been saying it since the start of this. There was always going to be less for pilots in this deal. Fewer jobs, fewer flights, fewer aircraft.

MBA vanity project. Not good for employees or customers... or likely shareholders.

Perhaps for the immediate future but everyone currently at property will not end up job less unless it’s by their own choice to leave the integrated seniority list voluntarily.

Everyone will be on the list, whether you like it or not.

Tsgas, by your opinion, why acquire ts. Just let it die and let your own product raise from the ashes. Why dish out money for ts? Especially when slots aren’t worth that much right? Get your head out of your rear end bud. You answered your own question too about why transat wouldn’t just take the superior offer that would Keep everyone seeming employed... clearly because Ac has a plan and slashing ts to the ground isn’t part of it.

Here’s something everyone needs to understand about transat. With our without the acquisition, they will survive. Quebec will not let their star go out of business. They may be leveraged up the ying yang but they will survive. It’s why ac wants control of it because you don’t want a transat sprung loose when we eventually come out of this. You rather control it. And before you start quoting bs from earnings calls, I recommend you give a few securities lawyers a call over at faskeneau and learn a bit about the details in why a company like transat would publicly and politically make it seem like it’s failing. Sheeple believe everything they read on fine print. Let me guess, you think the com also saves your ass in an accident right? Lol, noob.

You may have immediate positions lost but long term everyone will be on the ACPA/alpa seniority list depending on how that vote goes.

Good luck everyone.

More hot air from the wind bag Gatrkga, that can't predict the future any better than the local Fortune Teller can. Don't give up your day job , you silly clown.

[GATRKGA]

With the EU approval delayed (again), date of corporate closing (DCC) will be pushed out to the April-July 2021 time frame.

By year end, the merger and a COVID impacted schedule will combine for a surplus of around 900 pilots (600/300 respectively). Recovery, displacement, and training will take 18-24 months. A lot of AC age based attrition for 2021/2022/2023 was taken up by the approximately 200 early outs.

Summer 2023 seems like a reasonable projection for capacity akin to summer 2019 (less the overlap from the AC/TS flying). It seems entirely possible that AC will need to add a pilot not currently on either list for the next peak of summer 2024 therefore hiring Q1 2024.

All of the above presumes no lingering effects of COVID nor restricted travel mobility. It will be driven by pace of economic recovery and lifting of travel restrictions.

Glad to see someone with a reputation and a good head on their shoulders see the obvious in that everyone will have jobs in a few years.

I really don’t get the delusional thinking from some in here that are somehow inspired by the thought of people ending up jobless because of some sad personal agenda against this acquisition. It is pathetic and I look forward to seeing you backtrack your sentiments when everyone is on the list by the end of 2021.

I've been saying it since the start of this. There was always going to be less for pilots in this deal. Fewer jobs, fewer flights, fewer aircraft.

MBA vanity project. Not good for employees or customers... or likely shareholders.

Perhaps for the immediate future but everyone currently at property will not end up job less unless it’s by their own choice to leave the integrated seniority list voluntarily.

Everyone will be on the list, whether you like it or not.

Tsgas, by your opinion, why acquire ts. Just let it die and let your own product raise from the ashes. Why dish out money for ts? Especially when slots aren’t worth that much right? Get your head out of your rear end bud. You answered your own question too about why transat wouldn’t just take the superior offer that would Keep everyone seeming employed... clearly because Ac has a plan and slashing ts to the ground isn’t part of it.

Here’s something everyone needs to understand about transat. With our without the acquisition, they will survive. Quebec will not let their star go out of business. They may be leveraged up the ying yang but they will survive. It’s why ac wants control of it because you don’t want a transat sprung loose when we eventually come out of this. You rather control it. And before you start quoting bs from earnings calls, I recommend you give a few securities lawyers a call over at faskeneau and learn a bit about the details in why a company like transat would publicly and politically make it seem like it’s failing. Sheeple believe everything they read on fine print. Let me guess, you think the com also saves your ass in an accident right? Lol, noob.

You may have immediate positions lost but long term everyone will be on the ACPA/alpa seniority list depending on how that vote goes.

Good luck everyone.

More hot air from the wind bag Gatrkga, that can't predict the future any better than the local Fortune Teller can. Don't give up your day job , you silly clown.

Strong argument, halfwit. Let’s let it play out and quote each other in a few years.

Altiplano, you’re correct. In the present context it equals 1. But in the recovery every ts pilot will have a job at ac IF the acquisition goes through. It’s pretty clear most don’t want it to go through on both sides in the current context. But that doesn’t matter.

What rudder said is correct. Which is exactly that I’m saying too.

Good luck everyone.