Bede wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:19 am
I actually tend to Aerobod, but I think his opinion overestimates the percentage of CASM that pilots cost. (At WJ it's around 7%, so pilot wages won't make/break the company, but they will influence the outcome.)
Don't get me wrong- the supply/demand curve has shifted and the price of pilots has drastically increased. No different than the price of fuel, aircraft leases, etc. However, a rational corporation will always seek to maximize it's return on investment. If Onex can make more money selling/leasing the aircraft to another airline than they can running their own airline, that's what they'll do.
I did the napkin math of pilot costs vs a total of pilot cost and fuel per hour. Those numbers range from 4-9%. If we factor in all of the costs, I would assume that pilot salaries at WJ make up closer to the 4-5% range.
Mostly Harmless wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:51 pm
Shutting down an entire multi-billion dollar business to show those pilots who is in charge, while not beyond the realm of the possible, would be one of the dumbest decisions in the history of Canadian business. I prefer to think that the emotional maturity of those in charge exceed that of the average 4 year old in the height of a temper tantrum at not getting their way. Using your own assumptions, if you were in charge of the company, would you take a $2.2 billion charge on your books and close the company just to make sure no one ever got a raise? Remember, we are operating on what is effectively an 8 year old pay structure at this point. Would you take that loss and a 3 month strike to prove you are "the boss"? Or would it make more sense to offer a fair deal at a fraction of that cost? What would a reasonable person do?
Good thing CB isn’t in charge anymore wait.. didn’t we see a pic of him and AVH looking chummy…
There WILL always be someone somewhere who will argue why pilots should make less:
- economic crisis
- an expansion opportunity
- threat from the competition
- the government
- airport fees
- CASM
- borders
- gremlins
- the tooth fairey
The onslaught of BS all has the common theme to manipulate & distort reality
The best way to counter this is to value yourself, your profession and follow the basic union principles to get what all pilots in this country deserve. Respect
Here's another idea for WJ and AC. If taxes and fees are so much higher here than the US how about collaborating and working towards getting them lowered for airlines in Canada. I guess it's just a lot easier to stagnate salaries to make savings though. Like a high school bully they don't want to pick a fight with anyone bigger than them. If WJ management put as much energy and passion into fighting the airport authorities/government bodies, as they do their own employees, they'd perhaps make some savings on that front and be able to keep ticket prices the same.
Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:10 pm
Here's another idea for WJ and AC. If taxes and fees are so much higher here than the US how about collaborating and working towards getting them lowered for airlines in Canada. I guess it's just a lot easier to stagnate salaries to make savings though. Like a high school bully they don't want to pick a fight with anyone bigger than them. If WJ management put as much energy and passion into fighting the airport authorities/government bodies, as they do their own employees, they'd perhaps make some savings on that front and be able to keep ticket prices the same.
WS has a dedicated VP for dealing with and trying to influence the Government. I knew the previous person in that position who moved to Ottawa to try and be close to the key players. Unfortunately this and previous governments have been resistant to reason in this area and now seem to have turned more hostile on the APPR front, too. AC, Jazz, WS and Transat through the National Airline Council of Canada have been a single regulatory policy lobby group on this, but their lobbying seems to be continually shunned, unfortunately.
Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:10 pm
Here's another idea for WJ and AC. If taxes and fees are so much higher here than the US how about collaborating and working towards getting them lowered for airlines in Canada. I guess it's just a lot easier to stagnate salaries to make savings though. Like a high school bully they don't want to pick a fight with anyone bigger than them. If WJ management put as much energy and passion into fighting the airport authorities/government bodies, as they do their own employees, they'd perhaps make some savings on that front and be able to keep ticket prices the same.
WS has a dedicated VP for dealing with and trying to influence the Government. I knew the previous person in that position who moved to Ottawa to try and be close to the key players. Unfortunately this and previous governments have been resistant to reason in this area and now seem to have turned more hostile on the APPR front, too. AC, Jazz, WS and Transat through the National Airline Council of Canada have been a single regulatory policy lobby group on this, but their lobbying seems to be continually shunned, unfortunately.
Sounds like a management problem. Not a pilot problem
Maybe they just need to be better at their jobs
In the past I've heard - if you don't do it for less, the Americans will!!
Lol - now the US doesn't even have enough pilots to fly their domestic routes
Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:10 pm
Here's another idea for WJ and AC. If taxes and fees are so much higher here than the US how about collaborating and working towards getting them lowered for airlines in Canada. I guess it's just a lot easier to stagnate salaries to make savings though. Like a high school bully they don't want to pick a fight with anyone bigger than them. If WJ management put as much energy and passion into fighting the airport authorities/government bodies, as they do their own employees, they'd perhaps make some savings on that front and be able to keep ticket prices the same.
WS has a dedicated VP for dealing with and trying to influence the Government. I knew the previous person in that position who moved to Ottawa to try and be close to the key players. Unfortunately this and previous governments have been resistant to reason in this area and now seem to have turned more hostile on the APPR front, too. AC, Jazz, WS and Transat through the National Airline Council of Canada have been a single regulatory policy lobby group on this, but their lobbying seems to be continually shunned, unfortunately.
Sounds like a management problem. Not a pilot problem
Maybe they just need to be better at their jobs
In the past I've heard - if you don't do it for less, the Americans will!!
Lol - now the US doesn't even have enough pilots to fly their domestic routes
SeaBat wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:05 am
Oh no! Please Mr. 182E... please don't leave us and go to another airline. There. Does that make you feel better? We honestly don't give a flying fu@& when a passenger states, "I'll never fly on your airline again." To be honest, we normally make fun of you later that night while having a beer at the bar.
Well good for you. Maybe if you were better paid you wouldn’t be such an asshole? Nah. I doubt that
HaHaHa, good one... some more bar room fodder.
Now when you say bar room, do you mean the burn barrell with your hobo friends?
Maybe instead of letting people who butt hurt you live in your spacious head rent free, you should make some pocket change leasing it out. God knows you probably need the cash.
NSC182E wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:15 pm
Now when you say bar room, do you mean the burn barrell with your hobo friends?
Maybe instead of letting people who butt hurt you live in your spacious head rent free, you should make some pocket change leasing it out. God knows you probably need the cash.
Can you show us on this doll where the bad person hurt you.
---------- ADS -----------
I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!
NSC182E wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:15 pm
Now when you say bar room, do you mean the burn barrell with your hobo friends?
Maybe instead of letting people who butt hurt you live in your spacious head rent free, you should make some pocket change leasing it out. God knows you probably need the cash.
Can you show us on this doll where the bad person hurt you.
I think it's the thin skin. Someone struck a nerve with the firefighter comment a few pages back.
I saw a clip from your town hall today where the CEO talked about the contract negotiations. I lol’d when he talked about parking airplanes rather than paying. What a dick head. Screw him. Don’t back down!
"Not everyone in the company has interest in keeping pilots and growing pilots stuff"
"We would rather fly a few planes less than agree to a contract that puts us into a non-competetive place"
Truly a sad attempt at negotiating in public. He even mentioned that the fact we're canceling groundschools because no one will show up may have something to do with ALPA's video. If the strike vote wasn't sitting close to 100% before today, then it sure will be now.
- Proudly promoted the MAX order as the largest in Canada; a growth story.
- Discussed increases in executive compensation plainly, observing that there is market competition for talent that must be factored in.
- States that they'd rather fly less planes than pay pilots more (market competition for talent).
It's so patently stupid and irrational that I am hard pressed to perceive it as anything but an attempt to sow fear amongst the pilot group.
I'm also hard pressed to believe that AVH, with a PHD in astrophysics and decades of airline experience, said these words of his own volition. I think it's more likely that he was doing the board's bidding.
Nothing to see here. They have weakened their position and strengthened our resolve.
Gear Jerker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:42 pm
- Discussed increases in executive compensation plainly, observing that there is market competition for talent that must be factored in.
hmmmm... doesn't apply to pilots though... how does he say this out of one side of his mouth, while out of the other side....
Transition9er2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:24 pm
What's the vibe on the line now that the CEO's comments have had a chance to sink in a bit?
Is the willingness to fight still strong over there or are people thinking of backing down?
Stronger than ever. AVH really helped unify the pilots even more. Most I fly with are of the same opinion - either pay up or burn the place to the ground. It’s either going to be an industry-leading contract for the WJ pilots, or there won’t be a WJ left. Everyone is firmly behind our union and we will not settle for a shit arbitrated CA this time.
Most I fly with are of the same opinion - either pay up or burn the place to the ground. It’s either going to be an industry-leading contract for the WJ pilots, or there won’t be a WJ left.
I can confirm this sentiment. The past five pairings, not one single person I've flown with had any sympathy for AVH or the company. Literally it's.....pay the new reality, or let the place die. Also, only one person I've flown with has expressed anxiety about the financial burden of a strike. That said, they're still committed to strike if necessary. Everyone else is ready and willing. This time is completely different.
wait.. didn’t we see a pic of him and AVH looking chummy…
