Wow! I sure hope that happened in the 70's when your "lisp" comment would have been acceptable!

Please explain?

. . wrote:

Wow! I sure hope that happened in the 70's when your "lisp" comment would have been acceptable!

Please explain?

You're kidding, right???? It'll come to you...........I'm sure.

You're kidding, right???? It'll come to you...........I'm sure.

AAhhh now I get it...the PC thing...the thought police.

We're arguing the definition of roger? There is seriously no word used more than it, and we don't know what it means. I don't actually care about that part though, but come on, there is no gd difference between "message copied" and "message copied and understood." If it didn't mean understood, you'd only be able to use it to tell people that you heard all the words they said but you don't know what they mean because you're either 5 years old, don't speak english, are drunk or .. let us say, simple.

There is some places in Africa were ATC would say:
"Wake up" (suit them rather well actually)




---> "We copy" <---

square wrote:We're arguing the definition of roger? There is seriously no word used more than it, and we don't know what it means. I don't actually care about that part though, but come on, there is no gd difference between "message copied" and "message copied and understood." If it didn't mean understood, you'd only be able to use it to tell people that you heard all the words they said but you don't know what they mean because you're either 5 years old, don't speak english, are drunk or .. let us say, simple.

Well, I sympathize with this point of view.... but there is a historical context here.

"Roger" is a radio operations term, and not really "controller" syntax.

Radio operators transmit messages that they "do not understand" all the time. For example, messages for third parties, or messages that are encrypted.

For that reason "Roger" is used to indicate only that "I have received every single character and word of the message" and that's all. Then it was up to the operator (implied as part of his job) only to forward it to the next relay point or to deliver it to the ultimate recipient. He never did care about the content (as long as he was sure that he got all of it correct).

In that context, the controller is actually wearing two hats. One is "Radio operator", and the other is the Controller. The pilot is forwarding a message to the controller. But it is the radio operator, who receives it and says "roger".... to inform us "I got the message".

Then the "Radio operator" delivers the message to the "controller" (himself). The "controller" does have to understand the message, because he is the designated recipient, and he may have to react because of it.

But that part is not really our business.... we have done our part by forward the message to the designated relay point.... If the controller wants to (or needs to) react further... perhaps by returning a reply or a request.... then that is up to him.


...


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I believe that the correct phraseology is actually "Roger, Wilco, Over-and-Out". The Roger indicates receipt of the entire transmission, Wilco indicates understanding and action if necessary, and Over-and-Out indicates the radio session is complete and does not require any further response.

*Source = movie, Airplane! circa 1980

With the exception that "over" indicates that I have completed my transmition and I expect a response and "out" indicates that I have completed my transmition and no response is necessary

Therefore you would never use "over and out" together except in a movie or on TV

TreeBlender wrote:We have one of those here. He's a controller that says "Roger" to most responses, although the transmission usually starts at "ger" from the delay in keying the mic, hence the "sure".

THAT GUY IS THE COOLEST GUY ON THE FREQ IN YUL EVOOOOR!!!!

He used to be in YYZ years ago...

It's people like him that makes Canadian ATC distinct to American ATC that they sound like automated robot voices when giving instructions.

Keep givin'ER!!!

Note: Sorry, I had to interject...carry on.