Sunwing/Westjet

[averageatbest]

Don’t forget government will probably force you back to work within a week of strike action, citing “national interest” , just like handshakes were replaced by elbow bumping. What a farce.

I'll say what I keep on saying.

To what end? Why would the federal government step in when the see how it backfired in Ontario.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Don’t forget government will probably force you back to work within a week of strike action, citing “national interest” , just like handshakes were replaced by elbow bumping. What a farce.

I'll say what I keep on saying.

To what end? Why would the federal government step in when the see how it backfired in Ontario.

Federal and provincial levels are very different and also have very different responsibilities.

2011. Government of Canada versus air Canada strike.

[averageatbest]

I'll say what I keep on saying.

To what end? Why would the federal government step in when the see how it backfired in Ontario.

Federal and provincial levels are very different and also have very different responsibilities.

Chocolate and vanilla are very different and have different flavours.

You did not answer my question. Why would the federal government have any reason or incentive to stop legal industrial action?

[CaptDukeNukem]

I'll say what I keep on saying.

To what end? Why would the federal government step in when the see how it backfired in Ontario.

Federal and provincial levels are very different and also have very different responsibilities.

Chocolate and vanilla are very different and have different flavours.

You did not answer my question. Why would the federal government have any reason or incentive to stop legal industrial action?

Simple: the economy.

They’ve attempted this before. Of course they will allow the bargaining to happen. However: A major airline shut down in Canada affects the economy. If it becomes too much of a strain on the “people” and the GDP… I predict intervention. Might be wrong, and if I am, then more power to us all

[averageatbest]

Simple: the economy.

They’ve attempted this before. Of course they will allow the bargaining to happen. However: A major airline shut down in Canada affects the economy. If it becomes too much of a strain on the “people” and the GDP… I predict intervention. Might be wrong, and if I am, then more power to us all

Who's economy? Trudeau would be hard pressed to find a reason to interfere in Alberta's economy. WestJet told the East that we don't matter.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Simple: the economy.

They’ve attempted this before. Of course they will allow the bargaining to happen. However: A major airline shut down in Canada affects the economy. If it becomes too much of a strain on the “people” and the GDP… I predict intervention. Might be wrong, and if I am, then more power to us all

Who's economy? Trudeau would be hard pressed to find a reason to interfere in Alberta's economy. WestJet told the East that we don't matter.

Who’s talking about Alberta. This was the first time this is mentioned. The fact is, the federal government had forced airline employees to return to work in the past because it affected the country.

Again, provincial and federal governments have different responsibilities. Transportation falls under the federal. If things aren’t moving between provinces, I guarantee you intervention from the federal level.

[averageatbest]

I guarantee you intervention from the federal level.

And if you're wrong?

I don't think the strike will go longer than 3 days AND I do not believe that the feds will interfere beyond a statement meant to placate their base.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I guarantee you intervention from the federal level.

And if you're wrong?

I don't think the strike will go longer than 3 days AND I do not believe that the feds will interfere beyond a statement meant to placate their base.

Then I’m wrong and I’ll buy a round for your crew. Lol

[CaptDukeNukem]

I guarantee you intervention from the federal level.

And if you're wrong?

I don't think the strike will go longer than 3 days AND I do not believe that the feds will interfere beyond a statement meant to placate their base.

What if you’re wrong?!

[averageatbest]

What if you’re wrong?!

I'm never wrong... other people are sometimes more correct than me.

[CaptDukeNukem]

What if you’re wrong?!

I'm never wrong... other people are sometimes more correct than me.

Lol. I might use that line in the future with your permission.

[averageatbest]

What if you’re wrong?!

I'm never wrong... other people are sometimes more correct than me.

Lol. I might use that line in the future with your permission.

Be my guest.

[pacman007]

So I guess some questions need to be answered now that WestJet owns sunwing.

Where does a new hire go? WestJet or sunwing? Upgrades at WestJet are 10 years and sunwing is 2?

How does Sunwing contract compare other than pay?

What bases will close with sunwing?

When will Sunwing go ALPA?

When a merger takes place how will that affect new hires?

Basically i see no advantage to go to Sunwing if a merger will take place. Or if you get on with sunwing expect no European deployments in the future and upgrade times will quadruple.

Thoughts

[Canpilot7]

Don’t forget government will probably force you back to work within a week of strike action, citing “national interest” , just like handshakes were replaced by elbow bumping. What a farce.

I'll say what I keep on saying.

To what end? Why would the federal government step in when the see how it backfired in Ontario.

Federal and provincial levels are very different and also have very different responsibilities.

2011. Government of Canada versus air Canada strike.

This has been covered in a lot of threads now, do you have a vested interest here? Thinking the Feds will interfere in strikes isn't opinion, it's based in ignorance. First, it's ignorant of the legal challenges that resulted after that exact intervention you mentioned. Second, the change in government in power and any/all messages from them including about this exact topic where the prime minister as well as multiple ministers have declared their opposition to strike interference.

There's only evidence of one side of this "argument".

[CaptDukeNukem]

I'll say what I keep on saying.

To what end? Why would the federal government step in when the see how it backfired in Ontario.

Federal and provincial levels are very different and also have very different responsibilities.

2011. Government of Canada versus air Canada strike.

This has been covered in a lot of threads now, do you have a vested interest here? Thinking the Feds will interfere in strikes isn't opinion, it's based in ignorance. First, it's ignorant of the legal challenges that resulted after that exact intervention you mentioned. Second, the change in government in power and any/all messages from them including about this exact topic where the prime minister as well as multiple ministers have declared their opposition to strike interference.

There's only evidence of one side of this "argument".

I am not ignorant in this type of affair at all, nor do I have a vested interest in any of these discussions. I am simply stating the fact that in my career in Canadian aviation, the government has stepped in at least once to prevent labour action. This is factual. I sincerely hope it doesn’t happen again.

[boeingboy]

So I guess some questions need to be answered now that WestJet owns sunwing.

Where does a new hire go? WestJet or sunwing? Upgrades at WestJet are 10 years and sunwing is 2?

How does Sunwing contract compare other than pay?

What bases will close with sunwing?

When will Sunwing go ALPA?

When a merger takes place how will that affect new hires?

Basically i see no advantage to go to Sunwing if a merger will take place. Or if you get on with sunwing expect no European deployments in the future and upgrade times will quadruple.

Thoughts

First - technically the deal is not signed (although nothing will stop that now)

Sunwing will continue to operate independently as Sunwing - and will have nothing to do with mainline Westjet. Some sort of co-operating will happen with Swoop no doubt, but to what degree is unknow yet. Sunwings fleet is expected to grow to 40 airplanes and operate year round by around 2025 (thats our winter number with the Smartwings and TUI leases. We own 19 now).

Its unkonwn which bases if any will close - although I personally dont really see any closing.

Who knows - at this rate there is some that simply whish to remain with Unifor.

It should not affect new hires.

The deployments will eventually stop this summer is a definite go - next may have limited deployments as this winter (2023-24) we are still taking leases. I dont think upgrades will triple - we will need a lot of hires to operate a double size fleet.

At the end of the day - only the basic operating ways of the new company are known. there are still 1000 little details, each of which could go a dozen different ways. Once the deal is signed between the 2 parties - there is going to be a joint town hall for all employees of both companies to lay out more of what will happen when. I really see no big changes for another12 or more months. Overall - I think this could be really good for Sunwing and that we have more to gain from this than Westjet. We will know more in the coming weeks.

[doiwannabeapilot]

Would Sunwing hire anyone from Westjet before the deal is official and the ink is wet ?

Afterwards, I would guess it would be no. but before ?

asking for a friend. He only has 2 years worth of mainline seniority.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Would Sunwing hire anyone from Westjet before the deal is official and the ink is wet ?

Afterwards, I would guess it would be no. but before ?

asking for a friend. He only has 2 years worth of mainline seniority.

Only one way to find out. Send off a resume.

[doiwannabeapilot]

ha. true. done.

[ant_321]

Yes we’ve hired mainline westjet guys since the deal has been announced.

[tbaylx]

Would Sunwing hire anyone from Westjet before the deal is official and the ink is wet ?

Afterwards, I would guess it would be no. but before ?

asking for a friend. He only has 2 years worth of mainline seniority.

That would be extremely foolish to give up two years of seniority right before a likely seniority list merger.

[doiwannabeapilot]

ok thanks for the info.

As for a seniority list merger; I'm under the impression the 2 companies would not merge the lists nor fly each others aircraft).
If they do merge, doesn't that take years to do and then years more to get appealed / disputed ?
honest questions, not trying to stir the pot.

A 2-4 year upgrade at Sunwing may be better than a 10 year upgrade at WJ mainline (depending on how many years one has left in his /her career).

[nohojob]

Somebody coming to Sunwing with 2k on the 737 is likely to be upgraded within 1 year.

[flyinhigh]

ok thanks for the info.

As for a seniority list merger; I'm under the impression the 2 companies would not merge the lists nor fly each others aircraft).
If they do merge, doesn't that take years to do and then years more to get appealed / disputed ?
honest questions, not trying to stir the pot.

A 2-4 year upgrade at Sunwing may be better than a 10 year upgrade at WJ mainline (depending on how many years one has left in his /her career).

There will certainly be a grand representation vote to bring the sunwing group under the WJ umbrella. WJ scope requires this. Think of Sunwing as another branch of the WestJet group, being operated by WJ pilots. Doesn’t matter if it’s called suck my arse air, it’ll still be WJ pilots.

This has happened in the past, look no further that what went on with the original swoop pilots that thought they could jump the que.

[rudder]

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