All you underpaid airline pilots...

[Heisenberg666]

I just stumbled across this forum and topic today and this is my first post as I see a lot of discussion regarding Frontier.
I interviewed last month and have a CJO pending approval of the TN-1 visa in which their lawyer is working on. I am hopeful but also a bit skeptical on if it will be approved at the border when crossing. I am hoping to be on the Nov 28th course if not that then the Dec 27th course.
If anyone else has been hired by Frontier and on one of these courses please PM me.
I will not discuss anything further on this forum until I am successful at getting my visa from Frontier as I will believe it when I see it.
But I can confirm they are definitely willing and interested in hiring Canadian Pilots!!

So, did you ever get the TN visa to go to Frontier?

I went thru the process last year and did get a job offer. The HR lady at the interview did not have any details about the visa nor did she seem to be aware of the issues with using a TN visa. I was told not to worry about it as their attorney would handle everything. Eventually the attorney told me the plan was to process us as “scientific technologists”. Sounded pretty sketch but I was curious where this was going. I never did get to find out as one of the others that was hired got denied entry at the border so the whole scheme got scrapped.

[accountant]

Which means…. Canadian wages are right. Can’t ask for a united wage when 99pct of you aren’t qualified!!

[Canadaflyer46]

Which means…. Canadian wages are right. Can’t ask for a united wage when 99pct of you aren’t qualified!!

No one here is quite sure on what you're qualified for tbh.

[cdnavater]

Which means…. Canadian wages are right. Can’t ask for a united wage when 99pct of you aren’t qualified!!

You’re funny, wtf does being “qualified” to work in the US have to do with anything!
Does Air Canada fly on and compete with the US carriers to the same destinations, then they are direct competitors and the pilots wages are part of that, AC has had a competitive advantage over the US airlines for a while now, time to change that!

[PropDog]

I just stumbled across this forum and topic today and this is my first post as I see a lot of discussion regarding Frontier.
I interviewed last month and have a CJO pending approval of the TN-1 visa in which their lawyer is working on. I am hopeful but also a bit skeptical on if it will be approved at the border when crossing. I am hoping to be on the Nov 28th course if not that then the Dec 27th course.
If anyone else has been hired by Frontier and on one of these courses please PM me.
I will not discuss anything further on this forum until I am successful at getting my visa from Frontier as I will believe it when I see it.
But I can confirm they are definitely willing and interested in hiring Canadian Pilots!!

So, did you ever get the TN visa to go to Frontier?

I went thru the process last year and did get a job offer. The HR lady at the interview did not have any details about the visa nor did she seem to be aware of the issues with using a TN visa. I was told not to worry about it as their attorney would handle everything. Eventually the attorney told me the plan was to process us as “scientific technologists”. Sounded pretty sketch but I was curious where this was going. I never did get to find out as one of the others that was hired got denied entry at the border so the whole scheme got scrapped.

That’s too bad. Seems pretty creative though.

[accountant]

Which means…. Canadian wages are right. Can’t ask for a united wage when 99pct of you aren’t qualified!!

You’re funny, wtf does being “qualified” to work in the US have to do with anything!
Does Air Canada fly on and compete with the US carriers to the same destinations, then they are direct competitors and the pilots wages are part of that, AC has had a competitive advantage over the US airlines for a while now, time to change that!

Has to do everything with wages.

You can’t say you deserve US wages when the market is closed to you. Barrier to entry.

If we had reciprocity with visas and you could work down there easily you’d see wages up here change.

[cdnavater]

Which means…. Canadian wages are right. Can’t ask for a united wage when 99pct of you aren’t qualified!!

You’re funny, wtf does being “qualified” to work in the US have to do with anything!
Does Air Canada fly on and compete with the US carriers to the same destinations, then they are direct competitors and the pilots wages are part of that, AC has had a competitive advantage over the US airlines for a while now, time to change that!

Has to do everything with wages.

You can’t say you deserve US wages when the market is closed to you. Barrier to entry.

If we had reciprocity with visas and you could work down there easily you’d see wages up here change.

So, you think the only thing that drives wages is the ability to transfer your skills elsewhere, guess we’ll find out.
Answer one question, the US pilots don’t have the ability to take their skills elsewhere other than the same places Canadians can go, what drove their wages up.
Do you think a 20 year American pilot is applying to Delta, etc? The big companies are not competing with each other for pilots, maybe for new pilots but what drove the widebody pay to 600/hr?
The ability to withdraw the Pilot services from the operation will have the biggest affect but I suspect you’ll be beaking off here until all is said and done, you still haven’t answered the question of why WJ pilots got way more than YOU predicted!

[rookiepilot]

Accountant.

Non professional pilot talking here. No dog in their fight.

Put a sock in it. Permanently.

Go back to your spreadsheets. Silently.

[accountant]

So, you think the only thing that drives wages is the ability to transfer your skills elsewhere, guess we’ll find out.
Answer one question, the US pilots don’t have the ability to take their skills elsewhere other than the same places Canadians can go, what drove their wages up.
Do you think a 20 year American pilot is applying to Delta, etc? The big companies are not competing with each other for pilots, maybe for new pilots but what drove the widebody pay to 600/hr?
The ability to withdraw the Pilot services from the operation will have the biggest affect but I suspect you’ll be beaking off here until all is said and done, you still haven’t answered the question of why WJ pilots got way more than YOU predicted!

The ability to transfer your skills across borders, based on demand will 100% drive wages. If the majority of pilots from Canada could cross the border, you'd see a larger increase in your wages in the next negotiation than you would presently because the shortage and pool of pilots in Canada to feed Canadian airlines would be even more significantly impacted. That is simple economics that pilots don't ever understand.

The other reason you saw massive increases in the US was there was a slew of retirments during covid, pilots leaving the work force, and a lack of significant investment in recruitment at the regionals to cover demand when things recovered. 10x the population base, far more majors and regionals....

Add to that the economics we've already talked about (lower cost structures, higher profit premium products, ancillaries, Points programs, you name it) that simply put way more available cash into the pool than the legacy (and new) carriers up here have available.

As to the other comment - yep you got more than I expected but really.... did you? You got a 15.5% retro one year bump, and then 8.5% over the next 3 which is a drop in the bucket (and in that 4% range I suggested). You're not making up any gains for all the years of losses, and you're barely covering inflation.

That's sure United numbers (NOT). You're focusing on the little you got and ignoring the fact most of you yelled "HOLD THE LINE" and "INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT". It lead nothing other than moving the bar a bit up from AC. None of you got your "United" contract you all desperately yelled for and said you would sit out and wait for as "Long as it takes". Like many of you are great at copying and pasting my comments, I could do the same with all the toothless commentary from pilots who caved and took a contract that wasn't anywhere near United. For all of the things pilots have said were reasons they would stay on strike "As long as it took", you basically got none of them.

[cdnavater]

So, you think the only thing that drives wages is the ability to transfer your skills elsewhere, guess we’ll find out.
Answer one question, the US pilots don’t have the ability to take their skills elsewhere other than the same places Canadians can go, what drove their wages up.
Do you think a 20 year American pilot is applying to Delta, etc? The big companies are not competing with each other for pilots, maybe for new pilots but what drove the widebody pay to 600/hr?
The ability to withdraw the Pilot services from the operation will have the biggest affect but I suspect you’ll be beaking off here until all is said and done, you still haven’t answered the question of why WJ pilots got way more than YOU predicted!

The ability to transfer your skills across borders, based on demand will 100% drive wages. If the majority of pilots from Canada could cross the border, you'd see a larger increase in your wages in the next negotiation than you would presently because the shortage and pool of pilots in Canada to feed Canadian airlines would be even more significantly impacted. That is simple economics that pilots don't ever understand.

The other reason you saw massive increases in the US was there was a slew of retirments during covid, pilots leaving the work force, and a lack of significant investment in recruitment at the regionals to cover demand when things recovered. 10x the population base, far more majors and regionals....

Add to that the economics we've already talked about (lower cost structures, higher profit premium products, ancillaries, Points programs, you name it) that simply put way more available cash into the pool than the legacy (and new) carriers up here have available.

As to the other comment - yep you got more than I expected but really.... did you? You got a 15.5% retro one year bump, and then 8.5% over the next 3 which is a drop in the bucket (and in that 4% range I suggested). You're not making up any gains for all the years of losses, and you're barely covering inflation.

That's sure United numbers (NOT). You're focusing on the little you got and ignoring the fact most of you yelled "HOLD THE LINE" and "INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT". It lead nothing other than moving the bar a bit up from AC. None of you got your "United" contract you all desperately yelled for and said you would sit out and wait for as "Long as it takes". Like many of you are great at copying and pasting my comments, I could do the same with all the toothless commentary from pilots who caved and took a contract that wasn't anywhere near United. For all of the things pilots have said were reasons they would stay on strike "As long as it took", you basically got none of them.

I did not say the ability to cross the border would not help, I said it was not the only factor and to say Canadians that do the same work, ie, YYZ-IAH or NA to other countries are not competing in the same market is ridiculous.
That’s what management wants us to believe but reality is, AC has a huge cost advantage over Delta et al on routes that are being competed on.
Again the ability to make gains is not solely dictated by the ability to quit, there are other tools.
Also, 24% is 50% more than 16%, I thought you were an accountant!

[daedalusx]

I have come to believed that the bean counter who goes by the name of “accountant” is secretly an AC pilot whose sole purpose is to harden the resolve of other pilots so that they get paid their north American industry standard wages through some kind of perverted reverse psychology method.
Brilliant.

Thank you accountant and Godspeed. Keep up the good work.

[accountant]

I have come to believed that the bean counter who goes by the name of “accountant” is secretly an AC pilot whose sole purpose is to harden the resolve of other pilots so that they get paid their north American industry standard wages through some kind of perverted reverse psychology method.
Brilliant.

Thank you accountant and Godspeed. Keep up the good work.

Awww you figured it out!

[truecolours]

Accountant is becoming unhinged. This is comical now.

They will hang out here during this round of negotiations, then go silent until the next airline enters their negotiation process. Repeat.

[RippleRock]

So, you think the only thing that drives wages is the ability to transfer your skills elsewhere, guess we’ll find out.
Answer one question, the US pilots don’t have the ability to take their skills elsewhere other than the same places Canadians can go, what drove their wages up.
Do you think a 20 year American pilot is applying to Delta, etc? The big companies are not competing with each other for pilots, maybe for new pilots but what drove the widebody pay to 600/hr?
The ability to withdraw the Pilot services from the operation will have the biggest affect but I suspect you’ll be beaking off here until all is said and done, you still haven’t answered the question of why WJ pilots got way more than YOU predicted!

The ability to transfer your skills across borders, based on demand will 100% drive wages. If the majority of pilots from Canada could cross the border, you'd see a larger increase in your wages in the next negotiation than you would presently because the shortage and pool of pilots in Canada to feed Canadian airlines would be even more significantly impacted. That is simple economics that pilots don't ever understand.

The other reason you saw massive increases in the US was there was a slew of retirments during covid, pilots leaving the work force, and a lack of significant investment in recruitment at the regionals to cover demand when things recovered. 10x the population base, far more majors and regionals....

Add to that the economics we've already talked about (lower cost structures, higher profit premium products, ancillaries, Points programs, you name it) that simply put way more available cash into the pool than the legacy (and new) carriers up here have available.

As to the other comment - yep you got more than I expected but really.... did you? You got a 15.5% retro one year bump, and then 8.5% over the next 3 which is a drop in the bucket (and in that 4% range I suggested). You're not making up any gains for all the years of losses, and you're barely covering inflation.

That's sure United numbers (NOT). You're focusing on the little you got and ignoring the fact most of you yelled "HOLD THE LINE" and "INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT". It lead nothing other than moving the bar a bit up from AC. None of you got your "United" contract you all desperately yelled for and said you would sit out and wait for as "Long as it takes". Like many of you are great at copying and pasting my comments, I could do the same with all the toothless commentary from pilots who caved and took a contract that wasn't anywhere near United. For all of the things pilots have said were reasons they would stay on strike "As long as it took", you basically got none of them.

Jeeez Dude....I gotta ask. What is your deal?

You post more than I do, and that's saying something. You are vehement about managing our expectations. A lot of hard work isn't it?

Something tells me you have a lot on the line during these Negots. I gotta wish you luck if so, cuz you're going to need it..... bad.

[acountant]

I can't believe the Air Canada CEO compares himself to Delta and NOT WestJet but doesn't expect you to do the same

What a joke!