It is imminent.......be ready.

[Man_in_the_sky]

WJ are a bunch of cucks and losers - and our MEC has made it very clear we are not WJ.

That's way out of line. Damaging and divisive comments like that hurt what we're trying to achieve.

This is absolutly this guy’s opinion only. This does not reflect at all how we think.

[702pipeliner]

WJ are a bunch of cucks and losers - and our MEC has made it very clear we are not WJ.

That's way out of line. Damaging and divisive comments like that hurt what we're trying to achieve.

Comments like his are confirmation to what a lot of people think that air canada pilots believe about his position. Let's be real he's not the only one.

Makes me happy to be saying peace out to the industry in Canada and go to greener pastures.

Good luck boys hopefully you can pull something out of this. Hate for it to be all for naught and comments like his echo for years to come.

[propfeather]

Look man I get it, maybe that's over the line. But at some point we need to draw a line - or we end up making the same mistakes. I don't think it's unreasonable to say the WJ contract is junk and they settled big time. There needs to be acknowledgement and acceptance of that.

Making these distinctions is necessary (at the risk of upsetting a few people) or we are setting ourselves up to be "satisfied" with more mediocrity as well. We need to put an end these patterns.

You could say this without throwing insults at fellow pilots. We're all on the same team here.

[altiplano]

WJ are a bunch of cucks and losers - and our MEC has made it very clear we are not WJ.

That's way out of line. Damaging and divisive comments like that hurt what we're trying to achieve.

Look man I get it, maybe that's over the line. But at some point we need to draw a line - or we end up making the same mistakes. I don't think it's unreasonable to say the WJ contract is junk and they settled big time. There needs to be acknowledgement and acceptance of that.

Making these distinctions is necessary (at the risk of upsetting a few people) or we are setting ourselves up to be "satisfied" with more mediocrity as well. We need to put an end these patterns.

I don't think you do get it.

Statements like that hurt us all and reflect poorly on the rest of us.

The fact is that we have WJ volunteers working with our guys and backing up our guys right now. What are you doing to advance our cause?

It's also a fact that most of the WJ contract is better than AC's today. Pay, scheduling, reserve, vacation... they got rid of their LCC in one cycle and we've let one of the worst airlines in the world that is rouge drag our wawcon down for over 12 years now. We barely voted No the first time ('11) and after getting it shoved down out throats we've voted yes for it 3 times ('14, '17, '21). Talk about weak cucks. 87 year running mature airline pilot contact that I wouldn't wipe my ass with.

What WJ achieved they did it in spite of us. 20 years ACPA has been throwing down shit sandwiches on this profession in this country and we kept stroking and eating it up. Take a look in the mirror and especially take a look in the rear view on where we're coming from before you start tossing stones.

Was money left behind at WJ? I don't know, but they made big fucking gains. Now after we finally grow a set and top them big time this year they are going to beat us again in '26. Then we'll top them again in '27.

Get with the fucking program. There's no room on this train for attitudes like yours.

Progress takes solidarity and respect across company boundaries. We push and lift each other.

[altiplano]

WJ are a bunch of cucks and losers - and our MEC has made it very clear we are not WJ.

That's way out of line. Damaging and divisive comments like that hurt what we're trying to achieve.

Comments like his are confirmation to what a lot of people think that air canada pilots believe about his position. Let's be real he's not the only one.

Makes me happy to be saying peace out to the industry in Canada and go to greener pastures.

Good luck boys hopefully you can pull something out of this. Hate for it to be all for naught and comments like his echo for years to come.

Maybe he's a shill... or 5% rule maybe... him, Captain Kirk, Microphone Mckay... It isn't typical at all. But hell, I know guys at every airline that hate every other airline. Fuckem.

Fact is the seat I am in. the seat you are in, is only because the other airline didn't call first... That's a fact.

Colour of stripes on our shoulders doesn't matter, the common enemy is at the board room table making backroom deals and plans to suppress your value. Pay attention.

[JoeyBarton]

That is very well said,
Thank you Alti.

[flogolik]

Let's reset everyone's expectations. This new contract will be better than the previous one, but it will not be ground breaking for Canada.

You're going to get a contract that you can read and understand without the help of a lawyer. Your starting rates are going to be flat rate and starting salary in the $75,000 to $85,000 per year range.

Air Canada is having little problem hiring and therefore have little incentive to beat the competition.

Are you a pilot in Canada? If you are, give yourself a good head shake. If you are not, I am curious as to WHY you find time to make comments that contribute to the narrative that has driven pilot’s wawcon to the ground for decades.

This contract will significantly impact ALL pilots in this country for years to come regardless of their uniform. Setting the bar high and where standards should be will initially affect AC pilots and eventually positively influence contract negotiations for other pilot groups. The pilot reputation MUST return to the highly respected profession it once was. This is to ultimately ensure the safest aviation system possible by attracting the strongest candidates to the flight deck.

I respectfully invite you to reconsider your opinion and seriously evaluate the repercussions it could have on ALL pilots & their families for years to come in Canada.

[joefo]

Let's reset everyone's expectations. This new contract will be better than the previous one, but it will not be ground breaking for Canada.

You're going to get a contract that you can read and understand without the help of a lawyer. Your starting rates are going to be flat rate and starting salary in the $75,000 to $85,000 per year range.

Air Canada is having little problem hiring and therefore have little incentive to beat the competition.

Are you a pilot in Canada? If you are, give yourself a good head shake. If you are not, I am curious as to WHY you find time to make comments that contribute to the narrative that has driven pilot’s wawcon to the ground for decades.

This contract will significantly impact ALL pilots in this country for years to come regardless of their uniform. Setting the bar high and where standards should be will initially affect AC pilots and eventually positively influence contract negotiations for other pilot groups. The pilot reputation MUST return to the highly respected profession it once was. This is to ultimately ensure the safest aviation system possible by attracting the strongest candidates to the flight deck.

I respectfully invite you to reconsider your opinion and seriously evaluate the repercussions it could have on ALL pilots & their families for years to come in Canada.

He’s a disgruntled Encore pilot who doesn’t have the slightest clue what he’s talking about.

[dontcallmeshirley]

He’s a disgruntled Encore pilot who doesn’t have the slightest clue what he’s talking about.

Okay, prove me wrong. I surely hope that I am just disgruntled and wrong about Air Canada pilot's future.

[digits_]

Some of these posts will age very badly...

[thepoors]

That's way out of line. Damaging and divisive comments like that hurt what we're trying to achieve.

Look man I get it, maybe that's over the line. But at some point we need to draw a line - or we end up making the same mistakes. I don't think it's unreasonable to say the WJ contract is junk and they settled big time. There needs to be acknowledgement and acceptance of that.

Making these distinctions is necessary (at the risk of upsetting a few people) or we are setting ourselves up to be "satisfied" with more mediocrity as well. We need to put an end these patterns.

It's also a fact that most of the WJ contract is better than AC's today. Pay, scheduling, reserve, vacation... they got rid of their LCC in one cycle
....

What WJ achieved they did it in spite of us.
....

Was money left behind at WJ? I don't know, but they made big fucking gains.
...

You're the one who doesn't get it bud. Look at what you've written there. More excuses. More "good enough". More "they got what they could under the circumstances".

I'm tired of hearing this crap. Frankly, the last thing I want is help from anyone at WJ ALPA given their track record of late. They were too spineless to follow through on a strike and have repeatedly caved under pressure. If they had actually made big gains we wouldn't even be having this discussion because we'd already have a new contract by now... Why don't you understand? That's what brings change. We need to be ruthless if we are to be successful in getting what we want.

WJ ALPA allowed the company to win and look what happened when it was WJE's turn. The company learned they could bully the pilot group so they doubled down harder. And then everyone made excuses for that joke of a contract too. It's pathetic. We need to break this cycle and stop falling into these traps. I don't care if it hurts your feelies.

[altiplano]

Look man I get it, maybe that's over the line. But at some point we need to draw a line - or we end up making the same mistakes. I don't think it's unreasonable to say the WJ contract is junk and they settled big time. There needs to be acknowledgement and acceptance of that.

Making these distinctions is necessary (at the risk of upsetting a few people) or we are setting ourselves up to be "satisfied" with more mediocrity as well. We need to put an end these patterns.

It's also a fact that most of the WJ contract is better than AC's today. Pay, scheduling, reserve, vacation... they got rid of their LCC in one cycle
....

What WJ achieved they did it in spite of us.
....

Was money left behind at WJ? I don't know, but they made big fucking gains.
...

You're the one who doesn't get it bud. Look at what you've written there. More excuses. More "good enough". More "they got what they could under the circumstances".

I'm tired of hearing this crap. Frankly, the last thing I want is help from anyone at WJ ALPA given their track record of late. They were too spineless to follow through on a strike and have repeatedly caved under pressure. If they had actually made big gains we wouldn't even be having this discussion because we'd already have a new contract by now... Why don't you understand? That's what brings change. We need to be ruthless if we are to be successful in getting what we want.

WJ ALPA allowed the company to win and look what happened when it was WJE's turn. The company learned they could bully the pilot group so they doubled down harder. And then everyone made excuses for that joke of a contract too. It's pathetic. We need to break this cycle and stop falling into these traps. I don't care if it hurts your feelies.

It sounds like you want someone else to do the work for you.

We stand on our own feet and make our own bed.

One year before negots we all needed to start sending the message: Fly your block, no volunteering, follow the contract minimum. The company would have been dying to get a deal done and get us back covering the flying.

But we don't have a contract, it is because of these no life losers over the past two years, the pigs helping out with draft and seat fills, extending duty days... we have guys too scared to say 'No' to a minimum wage new hire crew scheduler... Allowing themselves to get drafted into protecting the operation.

That's the problem.

I don't give a shit what WJ got because I know what I'm worth and I'm going to get that. If we don't get what I expect, I only blame us.

Your insults to our colleagues achieve nothing and hurt us. Grow up.

[phenix]

WJ are a bunch of cucks and losers - and our MEC has made it very clear we are not WJ.

That's way out of line. Damaging and divisive comments like that hurt what we're trying to achieve.

This is absolutly this guy’s opinion only. This does not reflect at all how we think.

It is very unlikely that he even works at AC. Just stirring the pot, internet doing internet things

I work somewhere that pays what I'm worth (goes without saying that's not any airline in Canada).

[goingnowherefast]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10691169/rai ... rd-ruling/

If the railways aren't an essential service, there's no way an airline is an essential service.

[fish4life]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10691169/rai ... rd-ruling/

If the railways aren't an essential service, there's no way an airline is an essential service.

Yup, read this article today it’s awesome news for us

[braaap Braap]

AC is not WJ. Only in the sense that AC has a stronger bargaining position.
C-suite salary raise comparisons
US airline comparisons
Historical comparisons

WJA negots was also trying to put the cat back in the bag that was Swoop and scope protection. That took up a ton of negotiating capital that AC negots committee doesn't have to expend.

Did WJA sign a crap deal? I suppose that's the opinion of some. Considering all the big ticket items like scope, I'm reasonably impressed with what happened there. Now it's AC negots committee's turn to pattern bargain and leapfrog WJA again.

WEN also has a reasonable contract considering their management is slowly shrinking the airline and selling off their fleet. Sure, the rates matched Porter's, but all the smaller language in the contract adds significant value. How many yr.1 captains are at WEN? VERY few. How many yr.1 captains are at POE? Every single upgrade. There's a lot more money value in a contract than just the rates. Which rates apply, and where one starts is important too.

Please stop disparaging each other's contracts. It's not helpful. Support the ones who are currently at the table, and hope they leapfrog you by a wide margin. Then you can go to your company and turn up the pressure. That's actually quite productive.

Well said! Funny to watch everyone congratulate a pilot group on moving the bar just to turn around and shit all over them when the next carrier moves the bar again. Ive seen Westjet and Flair championed and vilified over the last few years.

Same team everyone. Stop squabbling.

[VFS]

There is zero chance the government lets you guys strike. So if you strike anyways the company, media and government will all publicly call you out and paint you as greedy and the bad guys. We just saw it with the WJ engineers, except you guys are more visible and air Canada is on a larger scale so the schmeer campaign will be much worse.
I wish you all the best but don’t believe you truly know how this will turn out, while the entire industry is on your side, the majority of the country will not be.

I hate to say I toad a so.

With Air Canada arguably being more important to the country than CN or CP rail and AC exec’s being in Quebec the back to work legislation will be immediate.

[Me262]

There is zero chance the government lets you guys strike. So if you strike anyways the company, media and government will all publicly call you out and paint you as greedy and the bad guys. We just saw it with the WJ engineers, except you guys are more visible and air Canada is on a larger scale so the schmeer campaign will be much worse.
I wish you all the best but don’t believe you truly know how this will turn out, while the entire industry is on your side, the majority of the country will not be.

I hate to say I toad a so.

With Air Canada arguably being more important to the country than CN or CP rail and AC exec’s being in Quebec the back to work legislation will be immediate.

What a mighty club you have

[Dash.Trash]

There is zero chance the government lets you guys strike. So if you strike anyways the company, media and government will all publicly call you out and paint you as greedy and the bad guys. We just saw it with the WJ engineers, except you guys are more visible and air Canada is on a larger scale so the schmeer campaign will be much worse.
I wish you all the best but don’t believe you truly know how this will turn out, while the entire industry is on your side, the majority of the country will not be.

I hate to say I toad a so.

With Air Canada arguably being more important to the country than CN or CP rail and AC exec’s being in Quebec the back to work legislation will be immediate.

In what world is leisure/business travel more important than food and clean drinking water (chlorine)? Also CN is headquartered in Montreal so moot point.

Also, passengers can just book with Westjet, Porter, Flair, Sunwing, Transat, United, etc etc.

You’re out to lunch.

[RippleRock]

We have a Constitutional Right to bargain freely with our employer and use all the tools afforded us under the Canada Labor Code. That has NOT changed. Forced arbitrated settlements, and back to work orders are illegal except under certain circumstances like "first contract" or a full Act of Parliament with a full vote in the House declaring "essential service".

What the Minister and the CIRB have done is illegal. They both "passed the buck" onto the Court system which will surely find the Rail Workers rights were violated. Not even former Minister Lisa Ratt, who screwed us during FOS thinks what was done by the Labor Minister is legal. This may be followed by a damage claim.

If the Railworkers press their case, they can not lose. Case Law is firmly in their favor.

It's the same with AC pilots. The law is on our side. The Government can not afford another "labor shennanigan" like the one they just pulled. The entire unionized workforce --nation-wide-- would be in an uproar.



FWIW The stress of an illegal "back to work order" will be too much for me. Under duress, there is no way I will be fit to operate a large airliner with a clear mind.


Remember to FOLLOW THE DIRECTION OF YOUR MEC CHAIR to the LETTER. Show up tomorrow!

[rudder]

Re: Essential Service

Jurisprudence does not allow for ‘blanket’ description of what constitutes an essential service. The parties must - in advance - identify the COMPONENT of the total service that would otherwise be essential (affecting life or limb).

Is a trip to the Bahamas an ‘essential service’? Perhaps to JT it is, but not to the courts.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I was in RDU the other day and I spoke with an American Airlines 737 captain. He was a fairly young guy (under 40 for sure). We were talking about salaries. I don't think I missunderstood him, but he said he's making over $300 USD an hour flying the Max. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

Regardless... Canadian piltos fly the same aircraft, same routes, same schedule as our American counterparts. Canadian carriers charge just as much money as American carriers for a ticket. The cost of living is just as high as in USA.

So... who's telling you the two countries are "different" and the industry is "different"?

I don't buy it and I'm sure none of you buy it either.

[TCAS II]

How much does an Air Canada pilot make?
A recent job ad at Air Canada says that a captain of a narrow-body (single aisle) aircraft can make $215,000 to $290,000 a year, while a wide-body captain can earn $315,000 to $350,000 pus overtime and expenses. “The airline also offers comprehensive benefits, including a pension plan and an Annual Incentive Plan,” the ad notes.

Epic Flight Academy says a first officer (co-pilot) can expect to earn $56 an hour, or about $107,000 annually.

https://nationalpost.com/news/air-canad ... at-to-know


The company forgot to mention the 4-year flat pay, FO pay, and what cuts taken by the pilots during bankruptcy. It’s time to make significant gains and get a World Class Contract. It’s got to be embarrassing to walk through any international airport around the world and pass other major (star alliance) airline pilots and know that you are flying the same equipment on pretty much the same routes with the same responsibility for 50% less. If Air Canada wants to be a World Class Airlines again, it’s time to give the pilots a World Class Contract.


https://youtu.be/jSt71wqlAbo?feature=shared

World Class, World Wide

[Babar350]

How much does an Air Canada pilot make?
A recent job ad at Air Canada says that a captain of a narrow-body (single aisle) aircraft can make $215,000 to $290,000 a year, while a wide-body captain can earn $315,000 to $350,000 pus overtime and expenses. “The airline also offers comprehensive benefits, including a pension plan and an Annual Incentive Plan,” the ad notes.

Epic Flight Academy says a first officer (co-pilot) can expect to earn $56 an hour, or about $107,000 annually.

https://nationalpost.com/news/air-canad ... at-to-know


The company forgot to mention the 4-year flat pay, FO pay, and what cuts taken by the pilots during bankruptcy. It’s time to make significant gains and get a World Class Contract. It’s got to be embarrassing to walk through any international airport around the world and pass other major (star alliance) airline pilots and know that you are flying the same equipment on pretty much the same routes with the same responsibility for 50% less. If Air Canada wants to be a World Class Airlines again, it’s time to give the pilots a World Class Contract.


https://youtu.be/jSt71wqlAbo?feature=shared

World Class, World Wide

Might be a good time to send the flight academy a little email...

[Man_in_the_sky]

How much does an Air Canada pilot make?
A recent job ad at Air Canada says that a captain of a narrow-body (single aisle) aircraft can make $215,000 to $290,000 a year, while a wide-body captain can earn $315,000 to $350,000 pus overtime and expenses. “The airline also offers comprehensive benefits, including a pension plan and an Annual Incentive Plan,” the ad notes.

Epic Flight Academy says a first officer (co-pilot) can expect to earn $56 an hour, or about $107,000 annually.

https://nationalpost.com/news/air-canad ... at-to-know


The company forgot to mention the 4-year flat pay, FO pay, and what cuts taken by the pilots during bankruptcy. It’s time to make significant gains and get a World Class Contract. It’s got to be embarrassing to walk through any international airport around the world and pass other major (star alliance) airline pilots and know that you are flying the same equipment on pretty much the same routes with the same responsibility for 50% less. If Air Canada wants to be a World Class Airlines again, it’s time to give the pilots a World Class Contract.


https://youtu.be/jSt71wqlAbo?feature=shared

World Class, World Wide

Might be a good time to send the flight academy a little email...

Alpa should send them a little reality check ! i'm sure they'd remove that comment in a heartbeat