Encore AME jobs

[NeverBlue]

 Turns out when ever I comment on aviation here I have to defend my current industry.

C'mon...that's just not true at all. You're the one that brings it up everytime you bash aviation. How would anyone know that's what you do otherwise?
You keep saying aviation sucks, is in the toilet etc, etc. And nobody has said anything about your industry except me posting a few articles...azimuth has only eluded to where one might work in it.
Nobody has said anything bad about your skills or abilities in either...ever...just your attitude.
All you keep saying is how good you are, how experienced you are, and you know everything about aviation maintenance because you worked in it for about 12 years or something.
You keep telling me... who's been in it 26 yrs now...that I'm the arrogant one...that I know nothing...my heads in the sand etc. etc....blah, blah, blah, blah

And now you're backtracking and saying you're pro industry and concerned about it!

What a bunch of crap!

The only thing that is apparent to me by your posts is that you're an arrogant control freak who couldn't hold a job in aviation...or wore out your welcome and had to move on...found a good paying job elsewhere...but is still bitter... and chooses to come on hear a blow your own horn while putting everyone else down who defends aviation.

Move on!

[ourkid2000]

The only thing that is apparent to me by your posts is that you're an arrogant control freak who couldn't hold a job in aviation...or wore out your welcome and had to move on...found a good paying job elsewhere...but is still bitter... and chooses to come on hear a blow your own horn while putting everyone else down who defends aviation.

I have worked with Troubleshot many a night and back when I was an apprentice he was the AME I was paired with. What you're saying could not be further from the truth.

[Troubleshot]

The only time I bring up my current industry is to show the gap in wages, benefits, etc...the fact that wind turbine techs are making more or the same as AME's in Canada is a fucking joke ...am I wrong NeverBlue? or you think that is OK?...If you think that is OK your head is still in the sand. Pro-choice? Come on...what if your choices suck? You can be unemployed or work at Encore...wow sweet deal...


Aviation is in the toilet man ...wake up! I can say that because I worked in it, you have not worked in wind, yet you and Azmuith feel like you have all the answers. I wouldn't go to non-aviation web site and pick apart their industry, why? because I have no experience in it....I do in Aviation, a lot of it. I love to come here an shoot down the nonsense that is Encore and the Perimeter's of the world...you like to defend them, so here we are.


You are confusing concern with my argument point. No I am not really concerned about the industry but when I see people like you defending "pro-choice" because the "fringe benefits" I am gonna come here tell people how it really is out there... you can put sprinkles on sh!t but it will still stinks no matter what you do it. So your stance is pro-choice and mine is pro-industry...get it?..I doubt it.

Again, you lack perspective.

[NeverBlue]

I have worked with Troubleshot many a night and back when I was an apprentice

makes total sense...poisoned from the beginning

[hoptwoit]

Neverblue is a product typical of the modern work environment. Many people rise to their position by trampling whoever is in their way.when they get to where they are. They then defend their position by by keeping everyone else in the dark. They don't tend to do any actual work anymore. They are condescending to all who see things differently and although they claim to love fixing airplanes they are now little more than a paper pusher who thinks that anyone who gets there hands dirty is beneath them. He choses to ony see things from one perspective the world as it appears from behing his desk. If you ask critical questions you are not a team player and therefore have a bad attitude. It is much easier to label people and say all their concerns are related to their attitude. I hate to use the word but it really amounts to bullying not managing. It is common today to find these people in any industry. But I always thought aviation seemed to attract more than its fair share.
After listening and responding several times and seeing numerous reactions from the people involved I have come to the following conclution.
I would work with a guy like Troubleshot because although we may not always see thing the same way he would at least make an effort to try. I also get the feeling that if involved in a situation where things went south I feel I could rely on Troubleshot to do a difficult thing in todays world and that is tell the truth.
On the other hand I would not work for someone like neverblue because I believe he is so in love with his industry and his position that he would d almost anything to save it.
For people like Troubleshot aviation is what you do not who you are. When he found an opportunity to make a change for what he considered the better he took it. Right or wrong you cannot condemn someone for trying to do better.
In my experience people like Neverblue who get very defensive about their industry or their position have had to put up with a lot of $ hit to get to where they are now and they expect you to as well. I am happy to say that my situation is much the same as Troubleshots and their are better industries out there to make a living at. They all have thier challenges and yes their are good aviation jobs out there just not as many as you would think.
After 15 years as an AME I came to this conclution. "I love aircraft but I hate aviation"

[NeverBlue]

Hilarious!



Their theyre Farley Mowat...have you come to any "conclution" as to why you're having trouble moving up in your current job?

...keep digging

[ourkid2000]

I was reading on the National Post a few days ago about a union drive at Westjet. The article was referring to the Flight Attendants but they also made reference to the Pilots considering it as well.

Figure this is due to the appearance of Encore? Will the AME's be next I wonder?

[boeingboy]

Nausiating. People barking off about things they have no idea about.

Why is it you pick on Encore and not Jazz - when they have the same payscales? And Jazz people don't get $7000 a year bonuses for 3 years.

They have the same payscales because when you make a business plan and attract investors - you cannot pay more than your competition. Nobody will invest. Westjet was exactly the same - they paid super low at first and now the top guys make 47/hour. Once the profits flow in - you can pay people whatever you want.

The wages will eventually go up - and probably sooner than you think.

No - the union drive has nothing to do with Encore.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

Neverblue rides a desk, defends low wages, has been in aviation 20+ years...come on you guys, every operator has Neverblues. They are the guys moved up to a desk because they are high risk, but long employed which looks good on a resume. Then the poor employer hires them and discovered they obviously spent their career slipping through cracks or riding on someone's coat tails, every shop has these guys too. Give them an office, get them away from the machines, and nobody gets hurt. Then they grow some form of self entitlement because they have a desk, and they think they got there on merit while everyone is talking behind their back about what really happened. Then over time, they change. They have a desk now so they are somebody. They sit in meetings all day, look at budget numbers, operating costs, and decide that people can be paid a fair wage, like $24/hour. This is because they are now disconnected from the work an AME does, and their memory is fuzzy, but the older they get the better they were. The only thing that saves them is with high turnovers in aircraft maintenance, their employer now has a staff of AMEs that never worked with the guy at the desk when he was on the floor, he has just always been a desk guy to them. So now nobody on the floor knows how horrible he was on the wrenches, and how poor his decision making was because those AMEs all moved on, only increasing the desk jockey's sense of self worth. Now that he is "management", with or without that word in his job title, he is above the guys on the floor and they should work for $24/hour because before someone yanked him off the floor to save the flying public AMEs were paid $21/hour and that was a good wage! He can talk a big game because the people that can call his BS all left, so he has a clean slate in the eyes on the hangar floor.

Neverblue, the industry is full of guys like you. Guys like myself, Pat, and Troubleshot all know it, we are high timers in the trenches that have seen it played out over and over again. We never got a desk because operators NEEDED us in the trenches, and we are not polished enough to ride mohogany, we call things as we see them. But we are good at what we do, and demand compensation. I am paid substantially more than the papercut crowd, and hope to never see a desk with my employer because then I would know I fucked up. Keep patting yourself on the back big fella, you've earned it. A few of us truly understand this.

The same guys pick apart grammar and spelling on internet forums, because they have to type memos for the staff and it looks bad if they @#$! that up. We are AMEs, we type 30 words per minute, can't spell all the time, and make grammatical errors. But its cool, because that isn't primarily what we do in our day to day jobs. No airplane has ever crashed from a spelling mistake. Neverblue, do us all a favor and stick to what you know. It is quite obviously not working in aircraft maintenance.

[NeverBlue]

Neverblue rides a desk, defends low wages,

...you have no idea what I do...and read my posts, I do not defend low wages
I don't have to justify to you what I am good at nor do I have to prove anything.
People who know me and work with me know what I am capable of and know my track record and that won't change because of your post

Say what you want here...it makes no difference to me at all.

We are AMEs, we type 30 words per minute, can't spell all the time, and make grammatical errors. But its cool,

...sure it is.

Well I'm an AME and it is definitely not cool. Proper spelling and grammar was learned in grade school and if you've come through high school and college and got your licence and still can't put a proper sentence together and are complaining about your job and wage...well what can I say...you just don't get it and never will.

We never got a desk because operators NEEDED us in the trenches,

Oh...I see

...keep lying to yourself


Well said Boeingboy BTW

[Pat Richard]

I do not defend low wages

Are you for phuking real??!! So you're a proponent for higher AME wages because you feel $23 a/hr is a forklift operators wage? What is it you're always getting worked up about when someone criticizes low wages for AME's if you're not defending low wages? Maybe you should go back and read your own posts,actually, have someone else, and then have them explain back to you how you come across. Spoiler alert - not the image you're entertaining.

I don't have to justify to you

Yeah, but you demand this from others constantly.

People who know me and work with me know what I am capable of and know my track record and that won't change because of your post

Did it ever enter your arrogant head that the very same can apply to others besides you, or do you really think you're so special?? Never mind...I answered my own question.

My God man, you will write anything on here just for the sake of opening up your mouth.

hypocrite



+1 TCAS

[NeverBlue]

show me where I've ever defended low wages

I defend anyone's right to accept the wages...that's all

and my opinion of low and your opinion of low may differ...so what?

Quote:
"I don't have to justify to you"


Yeah, but you demand this from others constantly.

again...show me where

Did it ever enter your arrogant head that the very same can apply to others besides you,

yes...all the time...that's why you'll never see me criticize anyone's job or livelihood or race or religion...but I will defend mine

if someone has insulted me or my job...I may return the favour...but not before.

[Pat Richard]

Show me were you have ever agreed with anyone on here when they've commented about shit wages (ENCORE FOR EXAMPLE)?
Your approach is to chastise anybody who critiques a)the wage b)the people working for it, which is defending the situation.
The fact you also throw in that you respect anybodies choice to work for that is also defending shit wages. Do you want the AME wages to continue to trend downwards? Because if we all sign on to your plan that's where we will be. Amazing that has to be explained to you, but you are a bit of a strange one, so not shocked.

As for the rest, if Im super bored, I'll go back through your posts and start cutting quotes, but even if I fill a page, you still will have some kind of response that is delusional. You'll think you've given some sharp and clever reply that has the rest of us unable, in your mind, to debate/prove wrong, and the experience continues.

Really is pointless with you, but I'm hardly alone in that view, nor the view that you are any kind of champion for better wages for AME's as whole. What was a past comment "what do you expect with a college diploma." Something like that.

getting off the neverblue merrygoround before I


*edit* Just hit me....that's your plan isn't it? Annoy/make dizzy as many of us as possible with your crazy posts so we throw our hands up in the air and stop posting. Then it would be just the mouthfoamers here with no actual reality to block the light.
Think I just figured you out, or you're just bat shit crazy.
That fits too.

[212wrench]

Yawn.

[Pat Richard]

Getting ready to teach a class, huh 212?

[NeverBlue]

You're such an angry person Pat.

Why do you waste so much energy on little old me? Why do you care what I think or say?...really...

I agree 212...this is getting old...but then I look at the 16000+ views on this topic and wonder...What's everyone hoping to see here?

there are two kinds of people here...hurtful and helpful

You decide who is who

[Pat Richard]

Again, you're kidding, right?

Why don't you do a count and see who responds more to the other's post's? With regards to our exchanges, I know you're the champ because until just recently I was ignoring your replies/taunts, which always first right after I post anything. I think you just want to be associated with me.

Angry, not so much. Bewildered by your replies, totally.

[NeverBlue]

Oh it's no trouble at all challenging hurtful posts...no trouble at all.

This, March Maddness and a nice bottle of red...it's fun!

[Meecka]

but then I look at the 16000+ views on this topic and wonder...What's everyone hoping to see here?

Really? Pure entertainment value. Its like watching a pack of rabbid dogs fighting over a pork chop! There is a reason shows like Big Brother are so popular, the general population just loves a slag fest. A thread that started out with genuine questions has degraded to a full-on pissing contest. Funny, the water cooler/ misc board got canned for this kind of stuff, yet it is permitted to continue here.

[Deadeye]

The guys who took the risk and huge pay cuts to start Encore got handed an increase last week from the sounds of it. Topped out AME W/ACA Just over $35/hr. Inspectors around $40 and Crew Chiefs north of $40. That dosnt include the profit share which is somewhere on the average of $4000/yr plus their 3 year retentions at $7000, $5000, $2500 respectively.
I have to give those guys some credit. I didnt have the balls to do it. They took a risk getting in somewhere early. Weathered the storm. Looks like it is paying off. I know one of them. He took some flak when he started. Driving industry wages down ect. He's laughing at us now, flying to Hawaii on his rotations off for next to nothing. With his time off plus accrued through rotations he only acually works 5 1/2 months a year. I scrolled through his thread months ago and could understand the negativity over the low ball wages. Now in retrospect I understand why some chose to take that risky road. Talking to the guy I know there about it, he and the others who stuck it out knew that with the expected growth and the lack of interest in the AME postings at those wages, that westjet would have no choice but to up the wages to compete for talent. They landed some really good experienced guys at the start. They are all leads and crew chiefs now with really good compensation. I think he said they have 13 or 14 aircraft now and are shooting for over 50 in the next 5 yrs. Smart guy who always was thinking outside the box. Guess thats why hes there and us negative bastards are on this thread complaining and bitching. Think I might turn over a new leaf. I told him to let me know if Encore is hiring.

[YYCAME]

The guys who took the risk and huge pay cuts to start Encore got handed an increase last week from the sounds of it. Topped out AME W/ACA Just over $35/hr. Inspectors around $40 and Crew Chiefs north of $40. That dosnt include the profit share which is somewhere on the average of $4000/yr plus their 3 year retentions at $7000, $5000, $2500 respectively.

I would be very happy to hear that if true because the general feeling is that the Encore pay scale will become the new 'industry standard' when an arbitrator decides what is a fair pay scale at Jazz next contract talks. I do have one question though, does Encore really have a special class of Inspectors that do something above what an ACA'd AME would normally do? Never heard of that except in the US so you'll forgive my skepticism over your numbers when you add in pay grade classifications that seem made up.

Edit: Or maybe it is true, but that doesn't sound much better if AME's are so inexperienced that someone who is ACA'd and licensed isn't qualified to do dual inspections or oversee apprentice's work which is what I assume an Inspector would do if such a classification exists at Encore.

[Deadeye]

From what I understand its the same system as WJ mainline. Crew Chiefs ( they are called AMLs ) run the day to day maintenance ops under the maintenance manager and DOM. Inspectors are the Crew Leads ( ICLs ) they run the line/floor under the Crew Chief, then the AMEs. ACA'd AMEs are good to inspect and release. It sounds old school from the titles I guess. The Encore guy I know said the pay is scaled and that the more experience you have the higher up the scale you would get hired on. Top out quickly. Plus gauranteed Q400 endorsment with ACA premium. Thats the picture I got. Its second hand so take it as that. Im sure anyone interested will find out the hard numbers soon enough. he did send me a text of the scales and its no BS. Seems like Encore is getting serious about getting more good guys in as they grow. I know a few guys at Jazz sitting on the fence.

[jetsetfly]

If you want a Q400 type endorsment just join Encore you will be put on course in no time and have your ACA as soon as you are done with the type pretty fast i say

[Troubleshot]

Deadeye, none of that is true.... your initials aren't RK by any chance are they? haha, doing some recruiting?

I would love to see these "scales" your buddy "texted" you. Just type them out. Then I'll get the real scales and post them here.


Encore maybe a fine place to work but can assure everyone here there has been no miracle wage increase.


Carry on...

[Deadeye]

Nice try. RK is there and a good buddy of mine. $33.10 + 7% aca AME. $36.41+7% aca Lead. $38.07 + 7%Crew Chief. These are the Top of scale. Feel free to check. Since you can get the "real scale" go ahead and post away. PM me your email and I'll save you the trouble and send them direct.