Kenn Borek Antarctic Cause/Speculation Thread

[Colonel Sanders]

To those that knew Bob...we know he wouldn't have minded having a DHC6 as his final resting place

+1

[frozen solid]

A couple of us were talking about that at work. With the greatest respect to the feelings of their families of course, I might have picked a similar resting spot for myself if that had happened to me. I don't know where souls go, but eternal unchanging quiet for my body is something I might have chosen.

[stallie]

A couple of us were talking about that at work. With the greatest respect to the feelings of their families of course, I might have picked a similar resting spot for myself if that had happened to me. I don't know where souls go, but eternal unchanging quiet for my body is something I might have chosen.

I don't think I've met you flying down on the ice, but you have summed up my feelings better than I could. I had been thinking of how to put this into words and you've done it perfectly. I even said it to my wife last night that if I was ever to end up in a similar position, leave me there in the untouched wilderness

f I were the one making the decision, I would respectfully look the family members in the eye and apologize but make it clear that I was not prepared to risk anyone else's lives to recover their loved ones.

Exactly.

Their final resting place will forever be a beacon to those who operate in the area.

And again - something that will never be in vain.


As for the recovery, I don't think some of the posters have any idea of the logistics in getting to that point in Antarctica. KB couldn't just send an aircraft there without extensive support (read fuel) of several Antarctic Nations. Then you need a chopper. Whose? Which Antarctic program? There's possibility that the entire USAP summer is about to be abandoned in any case, so even if there had been a recovery ready to go, it probably wouldn't have occurred anyway...

[Siddley Hawker]

Well said Stallie. Are you going back this summer?

[stallie]

Just day trips for me these days. I do miss spending time there though.

[stallie]

And the USAP season has been cancelled.....

[ettw]

I read it as a delay for now. Waiting on the partiseans south of the border to get their priorities sorted out.

ETTW

[stallie]

I hope you're right, but if they start pulling people out it will take a long time to get back up to speed again.

Have you guys left yet?

[ettw]

I believe two machines have left already to pull someone out of pole to mcmurdo. Not sure about any other machines.

ETTW

[Doc]

That would be it for you guys till next year then?

[ettw]

I'm guessing its a wait and see kind of thing now.

ETTW

[godsrcrazy]

Sorry I do not agree with leaving the crew there without trying to recover them. There have been many aircraft that have crashed into the mountains with high avalanche hazards in Canada. To the best of my knowledge there are no pilots or passengers that have not been recovered. In case some have not heard of it. There is this thing call avalanche control. There have been many crash sites in the mountains were the rescue crews do avalanche control prior to going into to recover bodies.

I agree that Bob would not want anyone to put their life in Jeopardy to recover his body. However when the bodies were left there last year it was stated it was because winter is coming and the weather is to unpredictable. I believe this could be done without harm to others if they really wanted to do it. If this a high ranking government employee we would not be having this discussion. It is my opinion this is strictly i financial decision. The countries and Borek are all pointing fingers at each other asking who responsible and non of them want to belly up and spend the money.

End of Rant

[flyinthebug]

Sorry I do not agree with leaving the crew there without trying to recover them. There have been many aircraft that have crashed into the mountains with high avalanche hazards in Canada. To the best of my knowledge there are no pilots or passengers that have not been recovered. In case some have not heard of it. There is this thing call avalanche control. There have been many crash sites in the mountains were the rescue crews do avalanche control prior to going into to recover bodies.

I agree that Bob would not want anyone to put their life in Jeopardy to recover his body. However when the bodies were left there last year it was stated it was because winter is coming and the weather is to unpredictable. I believe this could be done without harm to others if they really wanted to do it. If this a high ranking government employee we would not be having this discussion. It is my opinion this is strictly i financial decision. The countries and Borek are all pointing fingers at each other asking who responsible and non of them want to belly up and spend the money.

End of Rant

Good rant godsrcrazy. Although I understand and empathize with your feelings, you must understand the logistics between bringing someone down off a mountain in Canada vs. doing the same thing in such an isolated place with very limited equipment. In Canada, we can use our many tools to mitigate the risk...whereas in Antarctica there are very limited tools for the SAR to use. I doubt they have "avalanche cannons" there as we do here...nor do they have the personnel or equipment to complete this recovery safely.

I agree if Bob and his crew were sitting on the side of Mount Washington, I would be loud and obnoxious about getting the job done...but being that they are so isolated and in such a treacherous part of the world, I would hate to see anyone else lose their lives in an attempt to repatriate these 3 great men.

As I said previously in this thread, I sincerely believe that Bob wouldn't mind being in a DHC6 for eternity. Besides, depending on your spiritual beliefs, none of those men are there anymore...just the vessel they used for this part of their journey through the universe.

If they were in a less remote area and we had the tools to do the job safely then I would agree with you. Unless you have been down "on the ice" you couldn't imagine just how remote and desolate it is there. It makes Cat Lake look like downtown T Bay in comparison.

I really don't believe this is about money...I believe its more about logistics and safety.

Fly safe all.

[rigpiggy]

There was a quote about why these guys go to pole.

Something about first time for the money, second time cause they're crazy, and third time because there is nowhere else they would rather be.

Bob spent many tours on the Ice, and was a wonderful Gent. I remember more than a few nights at single malt mondays at the Finto, Loved the stories."Sparky" , Fuel Dumps, Esker Run's etc...... He was one of those "Men that don't fit In" and I am sure there is no better resting place for him.


“There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't sit still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin, And they roam the world at will.
They range the field and rove the flood,
And they climb the mountain's crest; Their's is the curse of the gypsy blood,
And they don't know how to rest.”

― Robert W. Service

[godsrcrazy]

Sorry I do not agree with leaving the crew there without trying to recover them. There have been many aircraft that have crashed into the mountains with high avalanche hazards in Canada. To the best of my knowledge there are no pilots or passengers that have not been recovered. In case some have not heard of it. There is this thing call avalanche control. There have been many crash sites in the mountains were the rescue crews do avalanche control prior to going into to recover bodies.

I agree that Bob would not want anyone to put their life in Jeopardy to recover his body. However when the bodies were left there last year it was stated it was because winter is coming and the weather is to unpredictable. I believe this could be done without harm to others if they really wanted to do it. If this a high ranking government employee we would not be having this discussion. It is my opinion this is strictly i financial decision. The countries and Borek are all pointing fingers at each other asking who responsible and non of them want to belly up and spend the money.

End of Rant

Good rant godsrcrazy. Although I understand and empathize with your feelings, you must understand the logistics between bringing someone down off a mountain in Canada vs. doing the same thing in such an isolated place with very limited equipment. In Canada, we can use our many tools to mitigate the risk...whereas in Antarctica there are very limited tools for the SAR to use. I doubt they have "avalanche cannons" there as we do here...nor do they have the personnel or equipment to complete this recovery safely.

I agree if Bob and his crew were sitting on the side of Mount Washington, I would be loud and obnoxious about getting the job done...but being that they are so isolated and in such a treacherous part of the world, I would hate to see anyone else lose their lives in an attempt to repatriate these 3 great men.

As I said previously in this thread, I sincerely believe that Bob wouldn't mind being in a DHC6 for eternity. Besides, depending on your spiritual beliefs, none of those men are there anymore...just the vessel they used for this part of their journey through the universe.

If they were in a less remote area and we had the tools to do the job safely then I would agree with you. Unless you have been down "on the ice" you couldn't imagine just how remote and desolate it is there. It makes Cat Lake look like downtown T Bay in comparison.

I really don't believe this is about money...I believe its more about logistics and safety.

Fly safe all.

I guess the only people that need to be put to rest now are the families of the crew. If they are happy with their loved ones being left there to rest then so am I. If they are not then they should be brought home. I have never worked in the Antarctic but i have done my share of time in the high Arctic. I do understand the logistics are different in both places. However as i said if this was a high ranking government official there would be helicopters flying overhead dropping explosives to control any possible avalanche etc. This is strictly about money as this could be done but logistics cost money.

[Justjohn]

To the best of my knowledge there are no pilots or passengers that have not been recovered.

Not true at all. Even a quick search would turn up many examples. Here is one, Trans-Canada Air Lines Flight 810, where 59 Pax and 3 crew were left in the mountains near Chilliwack BC.

[Old fella]

To the best of my knowledge there are no pilots or passengers that have not been recovered.

Not true at all. Even a quick search would turn up many examples. Here is one, Trans-Canada Air Lines Flight 810, where 59 Pax and 3 crew were left in the mountains near Chilliwack BC.

1946 Sabena DC-4 crash aprx 25nm SW YQX - grave yard on site for the victims(St. Martians in the Woods). Also ONA DC-4 same year out of YJT for an overseas flight creamed into a mountain(aprx 7nm E of airport) no one survived that crash and there is a grave yard on site(Crash Hill)This one was sad because many wives/children of American servicemen in Europe died in that crash.

[CFR]

This is strictly about money as this could be done but logistics cost money.

You are making that claim on the slimmest of evidence. We are not far enough into the story to confirm that there are no plans underway. However what is known is that working at 13000 feet for an extended period of time in the mountains is hard work and dangerous. The risk has to be weighed very carefully and sometimes no amount of money can guarantee success.

Removing the crew will be very heavy work. Trying to be as sensitive as I can, you realize that they are not simply sitting in their seats waiting to be unbuckled? Plane hit mountain hard, load in plane (did I read somewhere fuel drums?) hit crew hard, all has been frozen for many months.

A memorial on site or renaming the mountain may be more appropriate.

[Doc]

Sorry I do not agree with leaving the crew there without trying to recover them. There have been many aircraft that have crashed into the mountains with high avalanche hazards in Canada. To the best of my knowledge there are no pilots or passengers that have not been recovered. In case some have not heard of it. There is this thing call avalanche control. There have been many crash sites in the mountains were the rescue crews do avalanche control prior to going into to recover bodies.

I agree that Bob would not want anyone to put their life in Jeopardy to recover his body. However when the bodies were left there last year it was stated it was because winter is coming and the weather is to unpredictable. I believe this could be done without harm to others if they really wanted to do it. If this a high ranking government employee we would not be having this discussion. It is my opinion this is strictly i financial decision. The countries and Borek are all pointing fingers at each other asking who responsible and non of them want to belly up and spend the money.

End of Rant

I'm just curious why you feel so strongly on the subject?

[Defy Gravity]

Antarctic crash victim's mom doesn't want lives risked in recovery

The family of a Calgary man killed in a plane crash in Antarctica says they don't want anyone risking their lives to recover the body of their loved one.

Michael Denton, 25, died in January when the Twin Otter plane he was flying in with two other Canadians for Kenn Borek Air crashed into one of the highest mountains in Antarctica. With the summer season starting on the bottom of the world, there is discussion around whether to try recovering the bodies.

'We know where they are, and they are buried in the most spectacular, beautiful place you could ever be.'- Carol Denton, victim's mother

Denton's mother says no one should be put at risk.

"We really do not want anybody else risking their lives to do the recovery, and I know that's not something Mike would want," said Carol Denton.

"They're buried in a very sacred spot, and a beautiful spot, and it does bring us a lot of peace knowing that."
Carol Denton

Carol Denton, the mother of Antarctica crash victim Michael Denton, says the family doesn't want anyone risking their lives to recover the victims' bodies. (CBC)

Search and rescue operators from New Zealand helped in the initial search for the plane but were not able to access the three bodies.

Crews found the plane's tail and top right wing sticking out of the snow and were able to retrieve a voice recorder and GPS unit.

However, the cockpit was blocked by crumbled cargo and fuel tanks and it was deemed too risky to stay any longer.
Son was living his dream, says mother

"His life dream has always been to go to the Antarctic and also to fly Twin Otters," Denton said.

As a child, Michael and the family used to drive to the airport near their home and watch the planes take off. The love of flying is something that might have come from his father, who had his pilot's licence, says Denton.

Michael was the plane's first officer and at the time of the crash was newly married to a woman he had been with for seven years.

"[It was] probably a relationship that many people don't experience," Denton said.

"They were extremely connected and close, so he really did live a full and rich life — it just was too short."

Michael had flown for Kenn Borek Air in northern Canada and Denton says he was thrilled to be paired with Bob Heath, one of his fellow crash victims and a highly experienced pilot.

"He was ecstatic — the things that they would see and just the experience of being there was quite something," Denton said. "You could tell that's just what he really wanted to do ... that certainly gives us comfort."
Many of Michael's items lost in flood

The family lost most of Michael's personal memorabilia in June's flood but were able to save some photographs.

While having the bodies so far away makes it harder for the family to come to terms with Michael's death, Denton says they are extremely grateful to the initial search and rescue crew that made it to the crash site and was able to recover some personal items and identification.

"The people involved and the stages that they had to go through, we just absolutely were so grateful, extremely grateful, because I think knowing that they actually got in the plane has brought huge closure for me ... we could be sitting here not knowing where that site was," Denton said.

"We know where they are, and they are buried in the most spectacular, beautiful place you could ever be."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/a ... -1.1991261

[bigsky]

A memorial on site or renaming the mountain may be more appropriate.

Why would the mountain be renamed..better yet..what do you propose the name should be?

[pelmet]

The family of a Calgary man killed in a plane crash in Antarctica says they don't want anyone risking their lives to recover the body of their loved one.

Nuff said.

EDITED

[CFR]

A memorial on site or renaming the mountain may be more appropriate.

Why would the mountain be renamed..better yet..what do you propose the name should be?

Simply offering options to recovery.

[dune]

Sorry I do not agree with leaving the crew there without trying to recover them. There have been many aircraft that have crashed into the mountains with high avalanche hazards in Canada. To the best of my knowledge there are no pilots or passengers that have not been recovered. In case some have not heard of it. There is this thing call avalanche control. There have been many crash sites in the mountains were the rescue crews do avalanche control prior to going into to recover bodies.

I agree that Bob would not want anyone to put their life in Jeopardy to recover his body. However when the bodies were left there last year it was stated it was because winter is coming and the weather is to unpredictable. I believe this could be done without harm to others if they really wanted to do it. If this a high ranking government employee we would not be having this discussion. It is my opinion this is strictly i financial decision. The countries and Borek are all pointing fingers at each other asking who responsible and non of them want to belly up and spend the money.

End of Rant

Rant all you want. I only knew Bob, but I'm sure that none of the crew, or their loved ones, would want to risk others lives to remove their remains.

I'm not sure if you've looked at a map of Antarctica, but it isn't exactly an accessible location where they are rested at. Avalanche control, sounding for crevasses, testing snow conditions.. cutting the fuselage/ferry tanks away.. anything could go wrong, and in that area of the world even a simple injury is life threatening.

Its not all about money.

[co-joe]

I have mixed feelings on the issues, and would never want soemone else to be hurt or worse attempting a risky recovery like this but I have a few questions lingering. Is the crash site in a secure location? Will there likely be enough of a melt to uncover the wreckage of the mighty otter, enough that an avalanch might move or otherwise disrupt it and its precious contents?

Second to mind is what about the investigation? We all want to know what happened right? Or maybe we don't, I don't know. Can't a more thorough inspecition at least be made to determine some contributory factors now that it's summer down there? I can be inquisitive to fault sometimes. Like I said, maybe an unknown cause is all we'll ever receive.