Stickontheice,
"Some guys aren't happy but I suspect they aren't happy people in real life anyways. "
What a way to sum it up. Really?
You condemn those who don't like the TA with this kind of statement. Do you work for WJ, if so totally uncalled for.
Road Shows
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog
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3down&loct
- Rank 2
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:52 am
Re: Road Shows
Some guys aren't happy because they have been shafted by bases.
This has been a very challenging coupla' years for some people. The blowback in their personal lives and pocketbooks is plenty to make a few not happy.
It's a progressive TA - I support it.
This has been a very challenging coupla' years for some people. The blowback in their personal lives and pocketbooks is plenty to make a few not happy.
It's a progressive TA - I support it.
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George Taylor
- Rank 3
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:21 am
Re: Road Shows
You can volunteer to work 17 days every month and receive double time if awarded it.
It's not a bad TA, much better then the last attempt. But I think due to the changes lately (bases, encore) and the AC contract being pretty good, some have their expectations set a bit high. I do think it will just pass but I also think so would a certification drive. A yes vote to this TA is not a no vote to the wppa. Just some thoughts, it's going to be an interesting time at WJ.
It's not a bad TA, much better then the last attempt. But I think due to the changes lately (bases, encore) and the AC contract being pretty good, some have their expectations set a bit high. I do think it will just pass but I also think so would a certification drive. A yes vote to this TA is not a no vote to the wppa. Just some thoughts, it's going to be an interesting time at WJ.
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Re: Road Shows
KAG: the AC contract is not pretty good. It is OK at best. 83% voted for it because of:
1. Beaten dog syndrome
2. Fear of another government imposed contract.
3. $10,000 bonus. 4000-6000 after tax, or 400-600/ year over the life of the 10 year contract.
4. B level travel passes
5. Shiny new airplanes for expansion. However these were already bought and ordered.
6. Company stability.
NEW HIRE PILOTS : the reason why you don't get a raise is because the AC contract has new hire pilots 40,000-60,000$ less than your old contract aggregate over the first four years.
All that being said, neither contract has "deal breakers" in them so they are not awful , but not great. That is why the AC contract passed, and that is why the WJ contract will likely pass.
1. Beaten dog syndrome
2. Fear of another government imposed contract.
3. $10,000 bonus. 4000-6000 after tax, or 400-600/ year over the life of the 10 year contract.
4. B level travel passes
5. Shiny new airplanes for expansion. However these were already bought and ordered.
6. Company stability.
NEW HIRE PILOTS : the reason why you don't get a raise is because the AC contract has new hire pilots 40,000-60,000$ less than your old contract aggregate over the first four years.
All that being said, neither contract has "deal breakers" in them so they are not awful , but not great. That is why the AC contract passed, and that is why the WJ contract will likely pass.
Re: Road Shows
Man, get your facts straight before you spout your non sense opinion.
Neglecting your lack of intelligence regarding the AC contract, the fact that you are placing blame on the short comings of the WJ tentative agreement (your words not mine) due to the AC contract is quite pathetic.
Neglecting your lack of intelligence regarding the AC contract, the fact that you are placing blame on the short comings of the WJ tentative agreement (your words not mine) due to the AC contract is quite pathetic.
Re: Road Shows
Don't want to drift too far off topic, but I will say that as a pilot working for WS's biggest competitor, I want WS's pilots to get the best damned package they can get. Two reasons, one as pilots we are all the same, like hockey players that put on different uniforms but are NHL players, we are airline pilots in Canada and have to look out for our profession. Secondly, it helps set the bar for my airline when negots come around (insert joke about 10 years here).
As for ACs contract being passed due to "beaten dog syndrome", I think Tiny missed a few things. The max days of work on the narrow body going down to 14 with lower block hour months, MPU increases for those eligible when they kick in, the extra yearly (2%) bonus every year until 2017 when movement should really takes off in addition to the profit sharing. The new profit sharing that more closely resembles the way management EDIBAR bonuses pay out (blended to help the new hires more favourably). Reserve rules on the narrow body (can fly out). YOS for Rouge. And you know what, the 10K and B passes did not hurt anything.
Did we raise the bar significantly? Not really. But we did raise it, which is more than we can say since prior to 2001.
I wish you guys at WS the best, hoping you can get a great contract.
As for ACs contract being passed due to "beaten dog syndrome", I think Tiny missed a few things. The max days of work on the narrow body going down to 14 with lower block hour months, MPU increases for those eligible when they kick in, the extra yearly (2%) bonus every year until 2017 when movement should really takes off in addition to the profit sharing. The new profit sharing that more closely resembles the way management EDIBAR bonuses pay out (blended to help the new hires more favourably). Reserve rules on the narrow body (can fly out). YOS for Rouge. And you know what, the 10K and B passes did not hurt anything.
Did we raise the bar significantly? Not really. But we did raise it, which is more than we can say since prior to 2001.
I wish you guys at WS the best, hoping you can get a great contract.
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leftoftrack
- Rank 8
- Posts: 826
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:10 pm
Re: Road Shows
I think every pilot in Canada is hoping you guys get a good contract
Re: Road Shows
I wear the other jersey as well (that sounds weird doesn't it ?) and also hope you guys have a good deal. This profession needs to raise the bar. With consistent bottom line numbers like WJA, you guys should lead the pack in compensation and not feel bad about it.
edit: PS. regarding the AC contract, some of the wrongs inflicted upon the junior members were addressed in the current agreement. That was huge for many of my colleagues when it came to voting. Our previous TA had them collectively under the bus.
edit: PS. regarding the AC contract, some of the wrongs inflicted upon the junior members were addressed in the current agreement. That was huge for many of my colleagues when it came to voting. Our previous TA had them collectively under the bus.
Re: Road Shows
It may be a "progressive TA" but it certainly isn't "industry leading" !jjj wrote: It's a progressive TA - I support it.
Re: Road Shows
Remember this,
the "Industry Leading" comment did not come from the WJPA - it came from WestJet executive when they spouted off to media.
Progressive in that it has a part-time pilot program second to none in Canada and it has people holding reserve with paid commutes and hotels which is a concept that is second to none in Canada.
That is what quickly comes to mind without bothering to dig out the document for more.
Dollar for dollar AC is in the lead, then WestJet, then everyone else.
Cheers.
JJJ
the "Industry Leading" comment did not come from the WJPA - it came from WestJet executive when they spouted off to media.
Progressive in that it has a part-time pilot program second to none in Canada and it has people holding reserve with paid commutes and hotels which is a concept that is second to none in Canada.
That is what quickly comes to mind without bothering to dig out the document for more.
Dollar for dollar AC is in the lead, then WestJet, then everyone else.
Cheers.
JJJ
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sportingrifle
- Rank 6
- Posts: 402
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:29 am
Re: Road Shows
Tiny Tyke....
As a "big red" guy I sincerely wish you the best in your contract - partly because you deserve it, partly because a rising tide floats all boats.
Your posts shows quite some ignorance about the new AC contract along with some incorrect assumptions. In addition to the benefits mentioned by my colleagues, this contract greatly enriches the DB pension after 2018. By the time I retire I expect this contract to add $20K/year+ to my pension. If the actuaries are correct, that is about an extra $450K over my lifetime!
The contract also improves the lot in life of the junior pilots in a number of significant ways. Partly this is to right the wrongs imparted to them n previous contracts, partly the company realising that they will have to compete for the top talent in 5 years.
Once again, best of luck,
sportingrifle.
As a "big red" guy I sincerely wish you the best in your contract - partly because you deserve it, partly because a rising tide floats all boats.
Your posts shows quite some ignorance about the new AC contract along with some incorrect assumptions. In addition to the benefits mentioned by my colleagues, this contract greatly enriches the DB pension after 2018. By the time I retire I expect this contract to add $20K/year+ to my pension. If the actuaries are correct, that is about an extra $450K over my lifetime!
The contract also improves the lot in life of the junior pilots in a number of significant ways. Partly this is to right the wrongs imparted to them n previous contracts, partly the company realising that they will have to compete for the top talent in 5 years.
Once again, best of luck,
sportingrifle.
