Foreign Workers in Canada

[aerosexual]

[quote="aerosexual]
Fair enough. And I agree with the post above, 100% reciprocity is the only way to justify the use of foreign pilots. Having said that, there is a lot of movement these days, let's just hope nothing happens to cause instability for everybody's sake.

Slightly hypocrite, isn't it?

One of the HUGE factors in the fight against Sunwing's TFW program was how "unsafe" those pilots were. I guess the fact that they (indirectly) work for AT makes them a lot safer...[/quote][/quote]

I don't think I'm being hypocritical at all. I don't work for Air Transat, and I firmly believe in a reciprocal agreement where similar numbers of pilots go back and forth in different seasons. All sorts of arguments have been made in the fight against TFW's, many of them nonsense.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

This is a company where pilots have to pay their own type ratings to get hired, where low time junior pilots with just a commercial licence are not only hired in the right seat, as is typical in Europe, but whose starting salary is under 1000 Euros per month and where Captains sometimes earn less than a Canadian First Officer.

Air Transat is now off my list for holiday vacations joining Sunwing... and I will let all family and friends know about this and convince them to stick with Canadian airlines with only Canadian pilots.

what a disgrace this is becoming!

Relax, this is not a done deal yet.

[Spaceshuttle]

Hahahaha

[Gilles Hudicourt]

One of the HUGE factors in the fight against Sunwing's TFW program was how "unsafe" those pilots were.

Care to provide a few examples to back your statement up ?

[watermeth]

Care to provide a few examples to back your statement up ?

just read your own posts...

[OPEC6-Heavy]

LOL
Air Transat bringing in TFW pilots, from Travel Service to top it off..... Gilles you must be having a stroke It's a done deal my friend.

[GRK2]

Holy Jeez Gilles...Hoisted on your own petard... what does ALPA have to say about this turn of events? I really hope this development turns out to be a bad rumour...all that hard work by you and others and your own employer bends you over to say thanks! I can sympathise a little, I've had work stolen by a manager and claimed as his...Karma ended it well, but I sure hope this ain't so...good luck!

[Jean-Luc Monette]

FTR... AT is not, I repeat, is not "bringing in" TFWs to fly C-reg airplanes...

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Yes, unlike what a couple people are trying to claim here, my issue was with fake Reciprocity, when that was going on, and TFW pilots being imported into Canada while claiming as an excuse to import these Foreign pilots, that there was a shortage of qualified Canadian pilots in Canada.
Most of the Reciprocal Pilots and the TFW pilots, were flying Canadian Registered Aircraft under the Sunwing OC with a Foreign Licence using a TC issued FLVC, a practice that I firmly believe is contrary to the letter and the spirit of the CARs.

Wet-Lease is a whole different ball game, which has never been the subject of my posts, and those that claim otherwise, provide examples to back your claims, or retract.
Wet Lease pilots do not need an LMIA to come to Canada, they do not need a Work Permit to come to Canada, they do not need an FLVC to come to Canada. Foreign Wet-Leases, are, thanks to recent efforts by Unions and the Industry, restricted to 20% of the Fleet at the time of application. Air Transat has 25 aircraft on its OC, and is thus allowed to apply for 5 Foreign Wet-Leases.

That being said, I am not happy about my employer using Foreign Wet-Leases instead of Canadian pilots. This is written under my real name, not while hiding behind an anonymous alias.

How many Sunwing pilots out there have the guts to write the same, even with an alias ?

[AuxBatOn]

Gilles,

Regardless of the contractual details, the same pilots fly the aircraft. Are they safer because they are operating a wet lease, because you did claim pilots operating with a FLVC were much less safe than Canadian pilots.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles,

Regardless of the contractual details, the same pilots fly the aircraft. Are they safer because they are operating a wet lease, because you did claim pilots operating with a FLVC were much less safe than Canadian pilots.

You can repeat it 1000 times, it does not make it true.

Quote me.

[Scuba_Steve]

Few things, the Union at TS does favour Canadian Seasonal Pilots and the deal is still being worked out. If they manage to work something out and can hire more Canadian Seasonal pilots they will that will knock the Foreign crewed aircraft down a few tails. (also as an aside there are expansion plans for next year those "seasonal" guys could have a good chance of being full time but that is just an educated guess at this point). Upgrades are starting to happen as well.

There will be a few more courses for full time new hires soon.

The company did sign a 4 year deal for the airplanes, but the WET lease (ie with crew) is for this season with the intention of having all of the aircraft operated by Air Transat crews next year.

Is it a slippery slope? Yes
Is anyone at TS happy about this? Nope

Anyways TS is growing and aggressively going after the market. I encourage anyone who is interested in applying to TS for the seasonal or FT positions. We'd love to have you guys/gals on the property!

Cheers

[Spaceshuttle]

So when CJ was doing the flying Transat Airlines had to take over to save money supposedly, and you can judge that success by their financials. Now, to Actually save money they have gone to foreign pilots flying foreign planes under their OC as a wet lease, and apparently this is acceptable OR not as bad as foriegn crew flying Transat aircraft.

Amazing idea.... Guess using More wet leases would be the way to go based on that logic...

Now they can start lobbying for more wet leases as this seems like a winning money saving idea!!

[rudder]

So, if AT goes the'seasonal pilot' route, will they be hiring Seasonal Captains?

Shop Canadian

[Dick]

Gilles,

Regardless of the contractual details, the same pilots fly the aircraft. Are they safer because they are operating a wet lease, because you did claim pilots operating with a FLVC were much less safe than Canadian pilots.

You can repeat it 1000 times, it does not make it true.

Quote me.

He tried it here: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... =5&t=95350
It just didn't get very far.

[Dick]

In what appears to be his second post, he alludes to safety, based on what he's heard. The foreign pilot issue was being debated well before it affected him, before he appeared on AvCanada. He asked for quotes...


Gilles Hudicourt
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:51 am
Posts: 1737
Location: YUL
I've also heard that story: 5 to 7 Travel Service Czech pilots that were to fly dry-leased aircraft for Sunwing, failed their Canadian PPC's and were sent home, only to come back at the controls of the Czech registered, Travel Service operated 737 that Sunwing wet-leased last January.

Foreign pilots who fly dry leased aircraft need to obtain a Canadian Foreign Licence Validation and do a PPC, while the pilots of wet-leased aircraft can just fly with their own country's licence, with no Transport Canada oversight.

If anyone has any further details about this issue, please post it here or contact me directly, I would like to hear from you. We have to stop this dry leasing non-sense and this will certainly provide us with a major argument to help us stop it.


Report this post
Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote

ea306
Post subject: Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign PilotsPostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:05 pm


Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:44 pm
Posts: 435
"Foreign pilots who fly dry leased aircraft need to obtain a Canadian Foreign Licence Validation and do a PPC, while the pilots of wet-leased aircraft can just fly with their own country's licence, with no Transport Canada oversight.

If anyone has any further details about this issue, please post it here or contact me directly, I would like to hear from you. We have to stop this dry leasing non-sense and this will certainly provide us with a major argument to help us stop it."

Not questioning all elements of your concern but I think pursuing this angle may be a bit of a deadender......

Here is why I think this:

There is not ONE single Foreign registered airline flying into Canada that has its pilots subjected to a TC PPC. Not a single foreign carrier flying into and out of this country with Canadian passengers on board is under the direct oversight and governance of Transport Canada as far as pilot proficiency checks are concerned. Each Foreign carrier is governed by each respective state to which the carrier is from.

As you stated: Only pilots flying Canadian Registered aircraft have to prove their competency to meet TC and the Canadian Aircarrier's operating standards. That includes those foreigners operating in a License Validation.

I know you know this already... But I put forward these two thoughts:

1) The level of performance demanded by the Sunwing Pilot Training department is such that not all pilots with a lower level of English Proficiency or Lack of Sunwing SOP proficiency will be able to meet the standards enforced. This speaks well of the training department.

2) And the other hand, not all the foreigner pilots necessarily wish to spend their winter here in Canada. That group will not feel motivated to perform well if the reward is to be sent back home if they fail to meet standard. This only speaks of the desire of some to not be here in Canada. That should make some of us here on this forum happy....lol

[upintheair_]

I don't really understand why everyone is up in arms against Gilles? He's doing more than any of us combined for the cause, and no matter what... foreign pilots in Canada is not something I nor the hundreds if not thousands of unemployed Canadian pilots want. Maybe he said something in the past and his views have changed? God knows half the shit I said and though 5 years ago, I would laugh at myself now.

Long story short good job Gilles, keep up the fight. I wish more well set pilots in the industry would take more of a stance against this for the future of Canadian aviation vs. worrying too much about their own wallet (+60 group). Not much young up and coming pilots can do now without much of a voice and we rely on the older generation to make sure the jobs are still there and well taken care of for the future.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

You don't understand why ?. I'll explain. Most of these posters are on my ignore list. Those who make it on my ignore list are invariably those who made personal attacks against myself instead of arguing my posts on merit, mainly, because they had no arguments for attacking my message.

Recently, they began posting about my spouse. I guess my kids or my gay cousin will be their next target.

How can one be in favor of hiring foreign licenced foreign pilots instead of Canadian pilots ? This is completely incomprehensible to me.

Others claim they are not in favor of foreign pilots per say, but that it is a justified temporary measure (9 years now) to corner the market and allow growth that an all Canadian pilot roster would not have allowed. They claim that as long as there is a reduction in Foreign pilots (about 180 at Sunwing last winter) and that Sunwing continues to hire more Canadian pilots, its justified.

Air Transat, which employed about 350 pilots in 2013, has close to 500 today. This is proof that growth is not fueled by foreign pilots. Those that believe it is are fed Cool Aid by those who are profiting by not hiring Canadians, and the reasons this is done can be summed up in two words: greed and profits.