There sure is a rule saying it needs to be with a flight instructor. 425.21.

(4) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of a night rating shall have a flight instructor rating for the category of aircraft used for the training.

i stand very corrected.

425.21(4):

A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of a night rating shall have a flight instructor rating for the category of aircraft used for the training.

lol - beat me to it.

Broken Slinky wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:04 pm

rookiepilot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:22 pmThis is true. Even not so far north. Night flying over parts of eastern Ontario on a hazy night, over water, in and around Algonquin, are effectively IMC. There have been fatal accidents from those who disrespected the difference, including a recent departure from Parry Sound.

Make sure someone teaches you black hole effect.

100% agree. There's lots of runways close to Toronto that will present black hole effect even during 100% clear nights. Goderich, Midland, Pelee Island, Wiarton and Tobermory can very absent of light depending on the take off direction.

Agree as well. Strangely enough, I always found YTZ off runway 26 or 24 with a left turn out over the lake was freaky as well. All that nice bright city disappears under the nose and it is just BLACK. Your eyes go inside the airplane pretty quickly.

geneticistx wrote: ↑Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:06 pm I want to bubble this thread back to the top...
I've read the CARs, and there is no specification that the "dual hours" have to be done with an instructor, just that the rating has to be signed off by an instructor or AP once they are confident the individual is capable/safe/etc. The solos have to be signed out, is my understanding, but, correct me, please, can the duals and the cross-country be done with someone else who is PIC with a Night Rating who would, by definition - by CARs, be PIC?

DIVISION XII - NIGHT RATING
421.42 Requirements
(1) Private Pilot Licence - Aeroplane
(a) Experience
An applicant for a night rating shall have acquired in aeroplanes a minimum of 20 hours of pilot flight time which shall include a minimum of:

(i) 10 hours of night flight time including a minimum of:
(A) 5 hours dual flight time, including 2 hours of cross-country flight time,
(B) 5 hours solo flight time, including 10 takeoffs, circuits and landings, and
(ii) 10 hours dual instrument time

400.01
dual instruction flight time means the flight time during which a person is receiving flight instruction from a person qualified in accordance with section 425.21 of the Personnel Licensing and Training Standards respecting Flight Training; (temps d’instruction de vol en double commande)

425.21(4)
(4) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of a night rating shall have a flight instructor rating for the category of aircraft used for the training

It is thus, also, assumed that the training has to be done in either an aircraft from an FTU or an aircraft in which the student is on the C of R.

That’s not correct.

photofly, can you elaborate on this please? If i purchase hobbs time on an aircraft, can i get my night rating in that plane?

If the instructor is not connected to the aircraft. Since your instructor will be PIC, you should discuss this with the person hiring you the plane.

ah, right. thankfully, many smrter people here than i

geneticistx wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 9:40 pm ah, right. thankfully, many smrter people here than i

Not smarter. Just people who can read.

Its always interesting how much risk people will accept. The night rating is great for learning how to land and take off in the dark. And around cities on a nice night.

But I really believe if you are going to start blasting off across the country at night you should hold an IF rating. Weather can be sneaky, and that beautiful starlit night can quickly become virtually IMC. Unlike the US airports can be far apart.
The IF rating is your insurance policy.

An autopilot is handy, too.

Single pilot IFR w/o an autopilot? Above my pay grade.
But yes, night VFR with an autopilot would be nice. And an icing course.

Just my opinion. Been there on many occassions where a night VMC flight became, for all intense purposes, IMC.

406.03(2) A person who does not hold a flight training unit operator certificate may operate a flight training service if

(a) the person holds a private operator registration document or an air operator certificate, the aircraft used for training — in the case of the holder of an air operator certificate — is specified in the air operator certificate, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit — recreational, a private pilot licence, a commercial pilot licence or a flight instructor rating; or

(b) the trainee is

(i) the owner, or a member of the family of the owner, of the aircraft used for training,

(ii) a director of a corporation that owns the aircraft used for training, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit — recreational or a private pilot licence, or

(iii) using an aircraft that has been obtained from a person who is at arm’s length from the flight instructor, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit — recreational or a private pilot licence.

The CARs very clearly show in (i) that the only case in which the student MUST be an owner of the aircraft (aka listed on the C of R) is if the training is done towards a RPP or PPL. Outside of that, other forms of training(ie Night) still can be completed by an instructor under (ii) and/or (iii). You either need to be the director of a company if the aircraft is registered under said company(ii), or the aircraft is obtained "at arm's length from the instructor"(iii). This simply means that the instructor can not have any vested interest in how the student obtains the aircraft. Example, the instructor owns an aircraft and says you can use the aircraft while he provides the student with the instruction. Things get sticky when it comes time to who is actually insured on the aircraft. Under most scenario's, how the student obtains the aircraft doesn't matter for sh*t when using a freelance instructor. However, the student usually needs to be listed on the insurance, and almost all underwriting in the policies I've seen covers the certified flight instructor providing the instruction to a person who is listed under the policy.

Seriously kids, you should have been taught to understand how to read through the CARs in PPL Ground School. No one else's ass is on the line except for yours, take the time and read through the rules of the air.