WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

[confusedalot]

This is very sad to read. Can't see the forest for the trees.

Unemployed Swoop pilot?

Nope. The survival and future of westjet. Really really really hope it does not happen. Been around a long time. Seen entire companies go poof, just like that.

[montado]

This is very sad to read. Can't see the forest for the trees.

Unemployed Swoop pilot?

Nope. The survival and future of westjet. Really really really hope it does not happen. Been around a long time. Seen entire companies go poof, just like that.

Alright we are ready for your list of airlines that have gone Poof, and your explanation how Westjet is going down the same path they did.

[countdown]

When the arbitrator is finished Swoop pilots will not be working under the same WAWCON as mainline and mainline pilots will be training outside the block and holding reserve...

Would really like to be wrong...

[Snagmaster E]

Please elaborate further. Clearly. What is this bad road you speak of?

Wild speculation is what I'm reading here.

[RidersRule]

This is very sad to read. Can't see the forest for the trees.

Unemployed Swoop pilot?

Nope. The survival and future of westjet. Really really really hope it does not happen. Been around a long time. Seen entire companies go poof, just like that.

Oooook....

Fear mongering. Is that you Ed.

I know. Cam Shaft.

[confusedalot]

Ya know what? Why bother. You know everything. Companies are out to screw employees because they are incredibly and exceedingly greedy and have a ton of money with limitless cash. CEO,s are hired guns out for themselves and do 5 year contracts to reap maximum multimillion dollar benefits in the shortest possible time. Got it.

My apologies, was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. looks to me that the people with rich people problems are fighting with the other rich people with their rich people problems.

Good luck

In the meantime, everyone is ignoring the very obvious elephant.

[indieadventurer]

In the meantime, everyone is ignoring the very obvious elephant.

Which is?

[montado]

In the meantime, everyone is ignoring the very obvious elephant.

Which is?

So many elephants to choose!

1. Trump canceled visit with Kim
2. Marijuana legalization
3. New duty regulations
4. r/quityourbullshit

[digits_]

How would a lockout be any threat if the employees are already willing to strike?

"Negotiate untill we have a contract, or we won't show up for work!"
- "Ha, no, YOU negotiate until we have a contract, or I'll lock you out!"

I truly don't see the logic behind it, or the "threat"

[KAG]

The way I see it:
Were in a better place today the yesterday.
We got our flying back.
The devil is on the details and we don't know what those are yet.
In the words of ice cube - today was a good day.

[Noo]

You had 90% strike vote but caved under threat of a lockout? wtf

[Victory]

What if Swoop was only started to make you think you've won something by getting to crew it and forgetting about everything else? Everyone's patting themselves on the back for achieving the 'first thing on the list' but what have you actually gained in terms of salary or working conditions?

[Tango Niner]

What if Swoop was only started to make you think you've won something by getting to crew it and forgetting about everything else? Everyone's patting themselves on the back for achieving the 'first thing on the list' but what have you actually gained in terms of salary or working conditions?

That would be a very, very expensive negotiating strategy on WJ's part.
This is a good day for WestJet and Encore pilots!

[seriousflyer]

I agree...great day for westjet/encore pilots. Scope and job protection for years to come. When the wawcons are released on CA day, it will also be a good day. All westjet pilots should celebrate this tonight while ex-swoop pilots are moping preparing resumes.

[matthew.oommen]

What if Swoop was only started to make you think you've won something by getting to crew it and forgetting about everything else? Everyone's patting themselves on the back for achieving the 'first thing on the list' but what have you actually gained in terms of salary or working conditions?

So what’s wrong with an interest based mediation/arbitration process? Doesn’t that mean both parties will end up mostly content at the end? Meaning we will be at a much better place than we are at today? Until this point, it felt like a breach of contract by the pilots would put us in crap, but a breach of contract (swoop) by the company meant nothing really happened in return. This IS a big win for us. In terms of WAWCON, nobody knows (that hasn’t signed an NDA) what they have worked out and will work out in the next few weeks. But we will all find out likely by the end of June anyway. And it’ll be substantially better than what we have now, all things considered. Scope is quite an important part of any CBA. So yes, it is a win.
Ps. If I am missing something, please do enlighten me.

[Dry Guy]

I'm confused. So Westjet pilots had scope before or they just "won" it through negotiating?

[Jimmy2]

I'm confused. So Westjet pilots had scope before or they just "won" it through negotiating?

Regardless of the outcome of negotiations pilots will convince themselves they got a great deal. Such a fascinating phenomenon to watch. I remember similar celebration when Jazz "won" status pay for the 757. Human psychology is truly amazing.

[KAG]

We got the number 1 thing we wanted, stopping the furthur slide of our industry, preserving our FOs close to an upgrade their careers, keeping our flying!!!. hows this not a win?
I guess we'll see over the next month.

Wasnt the jazz status pay the will of the pilot group?

[goingnowherefast]

The win was keeping scope. The company tried really hard to remove it.

[Bede]

Confusedalot,

I would like to hear your opinion. I'm always interested in contrarian opinions. Unfortunately the only ones in this forum belong to trolls. I have a feeling that you have something intelligent to say and I'd like you to share it with us. If I disagree with your opinion I'll say so, but at least I'll respect your rationale.

[Victory]

My criteria for this being a win would be if you gained something. Just maintaining the current scope and WAWCON would not be a win and would suggest pilots are easily manipulated. It is yet to be seen if significant gains were made or not. The fact that maintaining scope was priority one is a bit worrying that any gains may be minor. We shall see.

[rudder]

The devil is always in the details.

What are the details on scope and the commitment to WJ pilots ‘owning’ the Swoop flying positions? Is it a brand? Or is it still a separate operating certificate? Does the agreement acknowledge that Swoop is ‘different’ meaning that pay and WAWCON can be less at Swoop than WJ (akin to AC and Rouge)? Has the fate of the Swoopies-in-training been resolved or will that fall to the mediation/arbitration process?

What are the details on the terms of reference for the arbitration? I understand that it will be an interest arbitration, however, are there any specific metrics or constraints that must be met in the arbitrated result? Has any portion of the CBA been settled or are virtually all CBA matters subject to mediation/arbitration? Who is the arbitrator?

[mbav8r]

I'm confused. So Westjet pilots had scope before or they just "won" it through negotiating?

Regardless of the outcome of negotiations pilots will convince themselves they got a great deal. Such a fascinating phenomenon to watch. I remember similar celebration when Jazz "won" status pay for the 757. Human psychology is truly amazing.

As a Jazz pilot who was here when the 57 was introduced, I have no idea what you are talking about. The wages for the 57 were industry standard and as per our contract divided by 1500 pilots(status pay), no celebrations required. Nothing, absolutely nothing was given for this.
As for the scope, hopefully this was a case of, “you cease and desist and we won’t strike” situation, the agreement about arbitration a way to move negotiations forward. I would find it hard to believe the threat of a lockout influenced this outcome, WJ had way more to lose, the only thing gained by a lockout is controlling the day things happened and maybe cover 10% of the flying by swoop during the lockout.
My hope is this came with a caveat, all current swoop pilots are let go with two weeks pay, hit the street dirtbags, I heard SR needs some pilots, maybe you can go back under the rock you crawled from!

[rudder]

Regardless of the outcome of negotiations pilots will convince themselves they got a great deal. Such a fascinating phenomenon to watch. I remember similar celebration when Jazz "won" status pay for the 757. Human psychology is truly amazing.

It was the exact Skyservice 757 hourly rates circa 2010 divided amongst 1500 pilots rather than just 80. I know the math can be confusing for some.

Meanwhile, Jazz Dash 8 pilots were making $125k+. Keep telling yourself that Jazz pilots are dragging down the profession.

[altiplano]

I am happy the professional pilots, and my friends at Westjet have affirmed their Scope and protected their careers, and their futures.

Does anyone know how many Swoop pilots were on the property? What was the breakdown between contract/permanent?

The fact they are willing to cut their losses on the union breakers they "hired" for Swoop tells me that there weren't many of them or they were mostly on temporary contracts.

I believe this really just bails out management on the Swoop launch. I was apparent that they couldn't do it without the help of the ALPA Westjet pilots. I doubt it would have launched as planned if at all.

Who was going to fly it? Where were the experienced, 737 Training Captains coming from? Where were any of the pilots experienced enough to roll into a Captain seat coming from? I don't doubt they had a few... but not enough to launch an airline.

Either way. History. Next step is keeping the same contract... don't let them divide you.