De Havilland contemplates stretched, shrunken Dash 8-400

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Elliot Moose
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Re: De Havilland contemplates stretched, shrunken Dash 8-400

Post by Elliot Moose »

You hear the Encore guys amending and slowing down all the time. rarely hear the jazz machines doing it.

Two words. Block Growth.
It isn't block growth. Encore flight plans at max cruise to ensure block times are min for a variety of commercial reasons including flexibility, keeping times close to jet speeds on many routes and various other things. Blocks are built with a decent bit of wiggle room for deicing etc. and so flights often push back early if things are going well. If the flight is running early, a cost indexing app is run and it determines the optimum speed to fly given the commercial considerations of the route and that specific day. It tells the crew what speed to fly, and huge savings result since the plane will still make good money at max cruise.

In addition, crews are advised not to arrive too early or gates may not be ready and that necessitates ground holding which is widely hated by pax so crews may elect to slow down further to meet the windows. Surprisingly, many crews fail to see the advantages for them (block growth) and are reluctant to slow down even when the app tells them to (go fast and stick it to the man)!!
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goingnowherefast
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Re: De Havilland contemplates stretched, shrunken Dash 8-400

Post by goingnowherefast »

ATR has also routely updated the design. When production of the Dash 8 classic ended in 2009, ATR had recently launched the -600 series. June 2019 ATR launched the 42-600S (for STOL). The only competition is old mostly worn out Dash 8 100/200/300.

In the 80s, Boeing was making the 737 classic, that's two generations ago. The MAX arguably should have been a clean sheet design. Time for a Dash 9.
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iflyforpie
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Re: De Havilland contemplates stretched, shrunken Dash 8-400

Post by iflyforpie »

Encore is always slowing down. Always in the way. Hmm... pop up 30 miles behind me with a 60 knot overtake? So they’ll be 30 miles ahead of me in an hour at TOD? No.. they’re going to amend their true airspeed to 330 and be right below me so I have to get laddered down. Doing full procedure on the other side of the airport for a 5 knot tailwind.

I’ll never forget when they were first of three into Terrace and magic IPad told them they were early so they should slow down. Yeah... now you’re last, here comes a hold, and now you’re LATE.

Zero thinking at all...
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
losercruiser
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Re: De Havilland contemplates stretched, shrunken Dash 8-400

Post by losercruiser »

Elliot Moose wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:07 pm
You hear the Encore guys amending and slowing down all the time. rarely hear the jazz machines doing it.

Two words. Block Growth.
It isn't block growth. Encore flight plans at max cruise to ensure block times are min for a variety of commercial reasons including flexibility, keeping times close to jet speeds on many routes and various other things. Blocks are built with a decent bit of wiggle room for deicing etc. and so flights often push back early if things are going well. If the flight is running early, a cost indexing app is run and it determines the optimum speed to fly given the commercial considerations of the route and that specific day. It tells the crew what speed to fly, and huge savings result since the plane will still make good money at max cruise.

In addition, crews are advised not to arrive too early or gates may not be ready and that necessitates ground holding which is widely hated by pax so crews may elect to slow down further to meet the windows. Surprisingly, many crews fail to see the advantages for them (block growth) and are reluctant to slow down even when the app tells them to (go fast and stick it to the man)!!
The koolaide is strong with this one.

Go as slow as you want just get out of the way. Every Jazz pilot will thank you.

Leave it in the detent, select MCL (I think that's what it was, been too long).

Easy 360 true. If only it weren't for people like you getting in the way. Nothing worse than coming back from a stand up and having up dial it back to 190IAS.
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Cessna 180
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Re: De Havilland contemplates stretched, shrunken Dash 8-400

Post by Cessna 180 »

Encore is always in the way YUL-YYZ.... I think they routinely slow down without letting ATC know. No other way I'm 60 knots faster on the same type.
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losercruiser
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Re: De Havilland contemplates stretched, shrunken Dash 8-400

Post by losercruiser »

Cessna 180 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:26 pm Encore is always in the way YUL-YYZ.... I think they routinely slow down without letting ATC know. No other way I'm 60 knots faster on the same type.
Sounds about right.
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