DEC

[derateNO]

Wow that’s terrible. I think Wasaya starts at 85k left seat on the 1900.

Go back 8 years and tell me what they were paying for that job?

Likewise for Jazz, please.

If you factor inflation, 8 years ago the actual dollar value was likely higher than it is now all things being equal. Jazz has been one of the highest paid regionals around until recently when the USA took off due to the ATPL rule.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Thanks for the answers. I will pass...

[altiplano]

Position assignment is just straight seniority in the contract?

If guys aren't bidding it because they aren't qualified then it would seem open positions would be available to new hires. There are times AC has been like that... existing pilots get first crack, but if nobody bids it - for whatever reason - the company has to fill it.

I'd think risky though for a guy without 705 experience to go DEC. As some have said, if you haven't done the job before you might like a quick turn in the right seat to see the operation.

[rudder]

If a CA vacancy is unbid, it is up to the company whether to fill it with a new-hire.

Same system just about everywhere.

[altiplano]

If a CA vacancy is unbid, it is up to the company whether to fill it with a new-hire.

Same system just about everywhere.

As I thought. I don't think there is any leverage to get something from the company because they are crewing the airline into open seats.

Besides, the guys in the right seat will be senior to any DEC when/if they do upgrade. Nonetheless, maybe a little motivation to get some experience and an ATPL before you go to a regional.

[rudder]

There are 2 remaining Express carriers. Both now are manifesting issues of lack of internal candidates for upgrade.

Big problem at Jazz is the upgrade treadmill (as there are no min experience requirements for upgrade other than ATPL). Get hired. Upgrade in 12-18 months. Leave for AC 3 months later.

AC ends up with a new-hire with around 150 hours Part 705 Command time.

Time for all the parties to look at a system that creates more stability at Express (new upgrades stay longer) and AC gets new-hires with more relevant command time. PML 1.0 had AC numbers reserved based on entitled PIT course. Perhaps that should be revisited.

[derateNO]

If AC did reserved seniority, I'd still be at Jazz.

[yhz41]

There are 2 remaining Express carriers. Both now are manifesting issues of lack of internal candidates for upgrade.

Big problem at Jazz is the upgrade treadmill (as there are no min experience requirements for upgrade other than ATPL). Get hired. Upgrade in 12-18 months. Leave for AC 3 months later.

AC ends up with a new-hire with around 150 hours Part 705 Command time.

Time for all the parties to look at a system that creates more stability at Express (new upgrades stay longer) and AC gets new-hires with more relevant command time. PML 1.0 had AC numbers reserved based on entitled PIT course. Perhaps that should be revisited.

I so desperately want this to happen

[flyguy2135]

If jazz has captain vacancies now, how bad will it be at the end of this year after 937 vacancies are filled at AC?


Can they afford to lose more people? Wondering if someone can shed some light on how the contract will play out in this scenario...

[Inverted2]

If jazz has captain vacancies now, how bad will it be at the end of this year after 937 vacancies are filled at AC?


Can they afford to lose more people? Wondering if someone can shed some light on how the contract will play out in this scenario...

Jazz is going to run low of candidates to send to AC very soon. If you factor out the top 700 or so who don’t want to go to AC, 120+ on med leave and the several hundred who don’t have an ATPL / 2000 hrs there’s only a few hundred that could actually go.

[Caterpillar]

Jazz is going to run low of candidates to send to AC very soon. If you factor out the top 700 or so who don’t want to go to AC, 120+ on med leave and the several hundred who don’t have an ATPL / 2000 hrs there’s only a few hundred that could actually go.

Is AC going to pull decent candidates before they’ve done their 2 years? Let’s say a guy is hired at 1500 hrs and ATPL.

[Inverted2]

I honestly don’t know. They won’t have enough pilots with more than 2 years in and the required experience soon. What they’re doing now is upgrading someone when they get their ATPL and flying left seat for a very short time and going to AC. It’s costing AC a lot of money since they pay for the simulator training.

[derateNO]

Jazz is going to run low of candidates to send to AC very soon. If you factor out the top 700 or so who don’t want to go to AC, 120+ on med leave and the several hundred who don’t have an ATPL / 2000 hrs there’s only a few hundred that could actually go.

Is AC going to pull decent candidates before they’ve done their 2 years? Let’s say a guy is hired at 1500 hrs and ATPL.

Two year requirement doesn't exist anymore.

Minimum qualifications are ATPL and 2000 hours. If everyone is 1500 hours and you are jr to them but you have 3000 hours you are ahead of all of them.

The 2 year thing is long gone. Old news from the no longer existent PML 2.0.

[Caterpillar]

So basically if you come to Jazz with no 705 experience,1500 hrs and an ATPL, you will be upgraded probably within 6 months, and you could be gone before 1 year?

Wow.

[derateNO]

Yes just change the six months to one month. If you can pass.

[flyguy2135]

How many people are usually hired in a ground school at Jazz?
AC has class sizes of 50 now.

[Caterpillar]

How many people are usually hired in a ground school at Jazz?
AC has class sizes of 50 now.

12

[KenoraPilot]

How many people are usually hired in a ground school at Jazz?
AC has class sizes of 50 now.

19 in the March 17 class

[flyguy2135]

If you came in as a DEC captain would you have a brutal schedule for a long time? What kind of seniority do you need to hold a block in the various bases?
Is there any talk about putting people on a certain type(previous type rating)that are coming in as a DEC?

[KenoraPilot]

If you came in as a DEC captain would you have a brutal schedule for a long time? What kind of seniority do you need to hold a block in the various bases?
Is there any talk about putting people on a certain type(previous type rating)that are coming in as a DEC?

Trouble with coming in DEC would be that as FO's already at Jazz who are getting their ATPL's upgrade they will continue to parachute in above you until eventually your seniority is reached and you start to climb. No telling how long that would last for, how fast FO's are getting ATPLs etc.

RSV at each base is different, some have 7-10 lines of CA reserve, some have less. This changes monthly as well. Usually when you have 8-12 below you, you will be a junior block holder (at most bases). Roughly.

[derateNO]

Reserve at Jazz is a breeze. I'd take 5 years of reserve at Jazz making $80k+ vs a FO block at $38k.

Come to Air Canada if you want to see what garbage reserve and scheduling rules look like.

Jazz is a Country Club.

[Raincoast]

Trouble with coming in DEC would be that as FO's already at Jazz who are getting their ATPL's upgrade they will continue to parachute in above you until eventually your seniority is reached and you start to climb. No telling how long that would last for, how fast FO's are getting ATPLs etc.

Wouldn't most of those F/Os be F-ing O to Air Canada as fast as their young legs allow them, though?

[av8ts]

Even if you came as DEC Capt the movement to AC is so great that it wouldn’t be long before your Capt seniority caught Up to you. If possible go Q Capt in YUL where seniority doesn’t exist.

[derateNO]

9 months to CRJ in YVR last I heard.

That's basically training, line indoc and 6 months of line flying before you'll see people funnel in below you.

[Transition9er2]

One thing that needs to be said, unless you are READY and CAPABLE of going DEC you should be more focused on being an FO for a year or so and upgrading when you’re ready!

Let’s use some common sense here... a guy flying corporate jets around the world going DEC is one thing. A 3 year flight instructor with 1500 hrs and a fresh ATPL is entirely another.

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

Seems to me like too many ppl here are looking a little farther down the road than they should be.

All I’m saying.

T.