Westjet hits geese in Victoria

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telex
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Re: Westjet hits geese in Victoria

Post by telex »

GRK2 wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:54 pm
pelmet wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:48 pm
telex wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:04 pm

See the FCTM reference provided above.
Fly through the birds and land is the manufacturer's recommendation.
Always try to follow the manufacturer's recommendation.
From the 747 FCTM...…

"Crew Actions for a Bird Strike During Approach or Landing
If the landing is assured, continuing the approach to landing is the preferred
option. If more birds are encountered, fly through the bird flock and land.
Maintain as low a thrust setting as possible."


As you said once....Back to school sonny;) Just kidding. :rolleyes:
"If the landing is assured..." the big issue here is just that, what happens if that very act of avoidance puts that 747 out of position to make a safe landing? It doesn't take much to get it all wrong in that jet. There's plenty of evidence to show that an unstable approach won't end well especially during the last 500 feet. In many types of transport category jets. It's a big part of the movement to prevent runway excursions. I agree with the FCTM's in my library (and I have a few for sure, including your example.) Having said that, it's still a very risky move to try to land off an unstable approach. I have hit birds in a flare a few times (B744 and 777) and no doubt the startle factor had an effect.
And I'm always heading back to school, not retired just yet! :lol: Sonny
FCTM makes no mention of the very act of avoidance. It says fly through the bird flock and land.
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Re: Westjet hits geese in Victoria

Post by pelmet »

GRK2 wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:54 pm It doesn't take much to get it all wrong in that jet. There's plenty of evidence to show that an unstable approach won't end well especially during the last 500 feet. In many types of transport category jets. It's a big part of the movement to prevent runway excursions. I agree with the FCTM's in my library (and I have a few for sure, including your example.) Having said that, it's still a very risky move to try to land off an unstable approach. I have hit birds in a flare a few times (B744 and 777) and no doubt the startle factor had an effect.
Actually, there are thousands of unstable approaches to landings every year and almost every one does end well(ie, no accident)....

"Historically, studies have reported that anywhere from 3% to 5% of all air carrier approaches are unstable and, of those, only 3% to 4% result in a go-around (rejected landing/ missed approach)."
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/rethin ... -training/

That doesn't mean I think that in general, one should continue to land from an unstable approach. But most unstable approaches are only a little bit outside of what I believe are frequently overly tight parameters or on long runways for the operation at hand. It is the grossly outside parameters approaches or smaller outside parameters situations on tight landing performance situations that result in the occasional overrun. So, it all depends on the situation and good judgement is required. If I had plenty of extra room(which is typical for most jet airline flights) I would seriously consider continuing to land after a multiple birdstrike scenario. Of course, if you don't have extra space...different story.

Which is why it is best to decide in advance to minimize any deviations from approach path if a flock of birds suddenly appears in front of you. Could be easier said than done, of course.
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