Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

[altiplano]

Right...

Except in that the private equity owners hold the purse strings tightly and will have to open them up to get Porter running again... they are apparently unwilling to throw more money in at present. If they don't get rubbing, they may find themselves waiting into obsolescence.

I believe they have more money sunk into Porter than they've made - they didn't plan on keeping their money there as was evidenced by the IPO attempt and failed private sale hopes. Their mothballed airline was chugging along, but is currently essentially worthless, parts only with middle aged Q400s and a depressed travel market.

I’ll bet that Gerry Schwartz wishes that he had the Porter cash flow scenario.

That's tough timing!

[tbaylx]

October 31st now. Starting to wonder if any airlines or airports are going to make it through this without CCAA. Canadian Governments need to start opening up all interprovincial travel and selected international safe travel corridors if they aren't going to provide any sort of airline aid like the rest of the G7

[Loon-A-Tic]

This on the CTV new,

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/porter-airli ... -1.5050554

[prop2jet]

October 31st now. Starting to wonder if any airlines or airports are going to make it through this without CCAA. Canadian Governments need to start opening up all interprovincial travel and selected international safe travel corridors if they aren't going to provide any sort of airline aid like the rest of the G7

Actually it is October 7 (for now)....

[Carlos de Anda]

Hope to see you guys flying again soon. All the best from your Chicago Midway gate neighbours: Volaris

[Wayans]

Just so there is no speculation or misinformation again, it has been confirmed that Porter has pushed it's start date back again, to November 12th now.

[rudder]

If it is Porter’s intention to remain closed until the CAN/US travel restrictions are lifted, then they may as well announce that they will be closed until May 31, 2021.

[CL-Skadoo!]

Are they offering any of their aircraft for private charter?

[Inverted2]

Starting to wonder if they will start up at all. Nov 15 will be 7.5 months without a single revenue flight. Planes will need a lot of maintenance sitting that long as well. Hopefully these ridiculous government restrictions get removed soon.

[2R]

You do realize that this is a Global Pandemic ?
The countries that opened to soon are shutting , one step forward and two steps backward and some days it is two steps forward one step backwards .
They just suspended the Oxford vaccine tests , and the Russian tests have some interesting data anomalies .

No vaccines yet . The variances in the death rates between Canada and the USA might keep the border closed until there is a Vaccine ,a cure , better treatment or an equilibrium in the death rates .

[planebored]

Ah yeah we're falling apart here in Canada.

[Hellocopter]

From worldmeters.info...

chance of death for:
50-59 year old is 1.3%
40 - 49 year old 0.4%
30 - 39 year old 0.2%
20 - 29 year old 0.2%

so let's just say for simplicity's sake there's a 0.5% chance of death among the pilot age group

How many pilots are there in Canada? From google according to 2006 consensus....11.5k

Let's round that to 10k

So hypothetical question...

Say we got all 10k pilots into a room and said we can jump start the aviation industry tomorrow if 0.5% of you are willing to die.

0.5% of 10k is 50

Who amongst you are willing to volunteer to die?

If no one volunteers, and we draw lots... You are picked. Would you still want to go through with it?

I'm a pilot who's laid off. But I'm not willing to die so the rest of you can start flying again. Call me selfish.

[planebored]

From worldmeters.info...

chance of death for:
50-59 year old is 1.3%
40 - 49 year old 0.4%
30 - 39 year old 0.2%
20 - 29 year old 0.2%

so let's just say for simplicity's sake there's a 0.5% chance of death among the pilot age group

How many pilots are there in Canada? From google according to 2006 consensus....11.5k

Let's round that to 10k

So hypothetical question...

Say we got all 10k pilots into a room and said we can jump start the aviation industry tomorrow if 0.5% of you are willing to die.

0.5% of 10k is 50

Who amongst you are willing to volunteer to die?

If no one volunteers, and we draw lots... You are picked. Would you still want to go through with it?

I'm a pilot who's laid off. But I'm not willing to die so the rest of you can start flying again. Call me selfish.

One thing that I was really surprised with was the lack of interest for early retirement at various airlines. We have a very old pilot group in Canada, many who fall into the risk zone with other compounding issues.

[tbaylx]

From worldmeters.info...

chance of death for:
50-59 year old is 1.3%
40 - 49 year old 0.4%
30 - 39 year old 0.2%
20 - 29 year old 0.2%

so let's just say for simplicity's sake there's a 0.5% chance of death among the pilot age group

How many pilots are there in Canada? From google according to 2006 consensus....11.5k

Let's round that to 10k

So hypothetical question...

Say we got all 10k pilots into a room and said we can jump start the aviation industry tomorrow if 0.5% of you are willing to die.

0.5% of 10k is 50

Who amongst you are willing to volunteer to die?

If no one volunteers, and we draw lots... You are picked. Would you still want to go through with it?

I'm a pilot who's laid off. But I'm not willing to die so the rest of you can start flying again. Call me selfish.

I'd bet the odds of you dying on your way to work in traffic are higher yet you probably continue to drive...

[Hellocopter]

I don't see how that's relevant.

There's a chance I die from car crash, brain aneurysm, heart attack in a few years, lightning strike. There's so many ways to die, and covid is just another thrown on top of the pile.

The point that I'm trying to get across is a lot of you, like me are frustrated with the current situation. And when you start looking at numbers and statistics, it's easy to forget that there is a name behind a number.

I'm just trying to bring the humanity perspective back into the picture.

But I'm by no means a saint looking after the poor dying folk.

If things stay like this a year from now, hell, I'll join the "sacrifice grandma for the economy" group too. But I also recognize that I'm a piece of shit for doing so.

[dialdriver]

From worldmeters.info...

chance of death for:
50-59 year old is 1.3%
40 - 49 year old 0.4%
30 - 39 year old 0.2%
20 - 29 year old 0.2%

so let's just say for simplicity's sake there's a 0.5% chance of death among the pilot age group

How many pilots are there in Canada? From google according to 2006 consensus....11.5k

Let's round that to 10k

So hypothetical question...

Say we got all 10k pilots into a room and said we can jump start the aviation industry tomorrow if 0.5% of you are willing to die.

0.5% of 10k is 50

Who amongst you are willing to volunteer to die?

If no one volunteers, and we draw lots... You are picked. Would you still want to go through with it?

I'm a pilot who's laid off. But I'm not willing to die so the rest of you can start flying again. Call me selfish.

I'd bet the odds of you dying on your way to work in traffic are higher yet you probably continue to drive...

If your odds of dying in a car crash were 0.5 %, or 1 in 200, you wouldn't drive - or fly.

[skybluetrek]

I wish someone came up with the numbers for,
Car crashes
Heart attacks
Diabetes
Other respiratory diseases
Etc
Etc
Etc,
all together. And then came up with a mediatized live score board for each condition/disease/risk of death. Maybe then, the idea of poverty and confiscated liberties in order to 'save lives' will have more sense.

[Hellocopter]

I wish someone came up with the numbers for,
Car crashes
Heart attacks
Diabetes
Other respiratory diseases
Etc
Etc
Etc,
all together. And then came up with a mediatized live score board for each condition/disease/risk of death. Maybe then, the idea of poverty and confiscated liberties in order to 'save lives' will have more sense.

I don't think that matters

if x = all deaths except from covid
and y = all deaths from covid

opening the borders now will result in x + y

and the people responsible for making the decision is directly responsible for y.

if x = 100k, and y = 1

you have a very sound argument. y is so small, so insignificant, why should the rest of us suffer for 1 person?

the point I tried to make was, I completely agree.... but what if y was you?

are you willing to die for the rest of us?

At the end of the day we are all selfish individuals looking after our own interest.

I'm not willing to die for the rest of you. But in a desperate situation, I'm willing for you to die so I can go back to work.

This is our current mindset. It is a bad one but I recognize it as such.

I'm trying to get the rest of you to too.

Embrace being a selfish asshole. Stop trying to justify these deaths to protect your guilty conscience.

[porcsord]

I'm not willing to die for the rest of you. But in a desperate situation, I'm willing for you to die so I can go back to work.

This.

[digits_]

I wish someone came up with the numbers for,
Car crashes
Heart attacks
Diabetes
Other respiratory diseases
Etc
Etc
Etc,
all together. And then came up with a mediatized live score board for each condition/disease/risk of death. Maybe then, the idea of poverty and confiscated liberties in order to 'save lives' will have more sense.

I don't think that matters

if x = all deaths except from covid
and y = all deaths from covid

opening the borders now will result in x + y

and the people responsible for making the decision is directly responsible for y.

if x = 100k, and y = 1

you have a very sound argument. y is so small, so insignificant, why should the rest of us suffer for 1 person?

the point I tried to make was, I completely agree.... but what if y was you?

are you willing to die for the rest of us?

At the end of the day we are all selfish individuals looking after our own interest.

I'm not willing to die for the rest of you. But in a desperate situation, I'm willing for you to die so I can go back to work.

This is our current mindset. It is a bad one but I recognize it as such.

I'm trying to get the rest of you to too.

Embrace being a selfish asshole. Stop trying to justify these deaths to protect your guilty conscience.

You could make that same reasoning for driving cars. Other people die every day yet we still drive them. Looks like we are ok as a society letting XX people day so we can all enjoy the freedom of driving.

At the moment we are not ok letting the same, or fewer, people die to enjoy unrestricted travelling and gathering in groups. Why? For how long? Not claiming this is good or bad, but it does look like a bit of a contradiction.

[Hellocopter]

You could make that same reasoning for driving cars. Other people die every day yet we still drive them. Looks like we are ok as a society letting XX people day so we can all enjoy the freedom of driving.

At the moment we are not ok letting the same, or fewer, people die to enjoy unrestricted travelling and gathering in groups. Why? For how long? Not claiming this is good or bad, but it does look like a bit of a contradiction.

I'm not trying to say whether it's the correct decision or not.

And I've made my stance clear. I'm not desperate right now, so I'm ok with the borders closed.

In 1 year, I will be desperate and I will want borders open. Even at the cost of other's ppl's lives.

Just like driving. I'm not willing to give up my freedom to drive to bring down driving death statistics.

What annoyed me was ppl arguing on the side of "good"

We make our own choices based on our own needs, it is selfish and dark. Stop trying to pretend you're arguing for the greater good.

edit: and that's all I'm trying to say. You are in a different situation than me. You may be desperate. You will want borders open. All I ask is that you recognize ppl will die because of it. As long as you don't push away that responsibility,then that's fine

In 1 year, I too will want borders open. And I too will recognize ppl will die because of what I want. Thousands of ppl die everyday anyways, what will another couple hundred be? Honestly, as long as they're not ppl I care about, I won't care that much. It is almost evil, but isn't that true for most of us?

[skybluetrek]

I wish someone came up with the numbers for,
Car crashes
Heart attacks
Diabetes
Other respiratory diseases
Etc
Etc
Etc,
all together. And then came up with a mediatized live score board for each condition/disease/risk of death. Maybe then, the idea of poverty and confiscated liberties in order to 'save lives' will have more sense.

I don't think that matters

if x = all deaths except from covid
and y = all deaths from covid

opening the borders now will result in x + y

and the people responsible for making the decision is directly responsible for y.

if x = 100k, and y = 1

you have a very sound argument. y is so small, so insignificant, why should the rest of us suffer for 1 person?

the point I tried to make was, I completely agree.... but what if y was you?

are you willing to die for the rest of us?

At the end of the day we are all selfish individuals looking after our own interest.

I'm not willing to die for the rest of you. But in a desperate situation, I'm willing for you to die so I can go back to work.

This is our current mindset. It is a bad one but I recognize it as such.

I'm trying to get the rest of you to too.

Embrace being a selfish asshole. Stop trying to justify these deaths to protect your guilty conscience.

The current mindset is entitlement, we're so arrogant we believe we can save the world from this pandemonium circus. What about the many more that will dye because of starvation thanks to the economical downturn, or the grandmas dying alone cause nobody visits them anymore, or the increased domestic violence, Etc, Etc, Etc. Let alone our even more fucked up immune system after all this sanitation.

It's not about the willingness to dye for you or anyone, it's about embracing death in the many forms/chances. We would have chosen a different career if contemplating and managing the risk of dying wasn't something we're willing to do.

[Hellocopter]

The current mindset is entitlement, we're so arrogant we believe we can save the world from this pandemonium circus. What about the many more that will dye because of starvation thanks to the economical downturn, or the grandmas dying alone cause nobody visits them anymore, or the increased domestic violence, Etc, Etc, Etc. Let alone our even more fucked up immune system after all this sanitation.

It's not about the willingness to dye for you or anyone, it's about embracing death in the many forms/chances. We would have chosen a different career if contemplating and managing the risk of dying wasn't something we're willing to do.

Careful there, remember human factors class? resignation is one of the 5 hazardous attitudes.

For real though, you can't expect governments around the world to not even TRY to fix the pandemic can you?

What our government did initially, imo was correct.

Hospitals were overflowing, there was too many unknowns still regrading the virus. So we shut down. That's not arrogance. It's good decision making.

The government then provided much needed support with CEWS and CERB. Who's starving?

I figured old people would prefer to not catch covid and live but be quarantined, than to see their grandkids and then die? Besides, there are work arounds. I remember reading an article about a guy visiting his grandma by standing beside a window @ the senior home.

Domestic violence? If being locked together with the person you supposedly love and married resulted in you deciding to beat them up... You surely can't pin that on covid...

If wearing a mask and washing hands a bit more resulted in the collapse of our immune system, then we as a species deserve to go extinct.



Now if you want to complain about our government regarding their decisions after June/July. Fine, many things can be said about them there.


Again, I don't care about your stance regarding the shut down. If you want to go with herd immunity and kill off millions. Go right ahead. But don't brush off their deaths as just a number.

Say it with pride.

To quote Lord Farquaad from Shrek.

Some of you may die, and that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

As long as you take that stance, I have no issue.

Because the only thing worse than being evil. Is to be evil while masquerading as good.

[planebored]

The initial actions were correct.

What was not correct was the lack of an exit plan.

The curve has been flattened. The hospitals are not overwhelmed.

It's time to roll out back to as normal as we can be while still being careful and courteous for those who are at a health disadvantage.

We can't keep everything closed on this planet for the smallest fraction of a percent of people who may die from covid. It's just not realistic.

[planebored]

Again, I don't care about your stance regarding the shut down. If you want to go with herd immunity and kill off millions. Go right ahead. But don't brush off their deaths as just a number.

This has more or less been debunked with what was the experiment done in Sweden. Nothing closed, minor distancing and their bell curve looks the same if not better than many countries who shut down.

One could wonder if perhaps that's because they have a health care system that works.

I refuse to use the USA as any sort of metric for this virus. Half the country is uninsured and underemployed. They can't afford to go to the hospital, and they can't afford to take days off from work. It is a disaster waiting to happen, and not a realistic example of the rest of the planet.