WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

[digits_]

Pretty ballsy though from Westjet to cancel the whole flight in a time where they desperately need people to fly.

Another concern to add to the list of Westjet travellers: will everyone on board wear their mask, or will the flight get cancelled?

[780Pilot]

When they say zero tolerance its ZERO tolerance. For some reason people seem to forget this. The passenger is probably lying through his teeth about how it all came to be. Id bet the crew has a much different view of the incident then what the news is reporting from the passengers perspective. Hes suing WJ, hes not going to win. When Westjet doubles down in their official statement about this they clearly don't think its their fault. Air travel is a privilege not a right.

[ALPApolicy]

Pretty ballsy though from Westjet to cancel the whole flight in a time where they desperately need people to fly.

Another concern to add to the list of Westjet travellers: will everyone on board wear their mask, or will the flight get cancelled?

No sir, not balsy. Decisions to cancel flights are made routinely. Maintenance/weather/crew...the reasons to cancel a flight are numerous. I suspect the crew was in no mood to operate this flight with the elevated atmosphere in the cabin. The FAs have had their fill of being enforcers of mask usage and at some point they likely said “I’m done”. If that is the case, whether WJ was in a position on short notice to replace the crew or not, I don’t know. Whether or not they wanted to operate the flight with the elevated (I assume) emotions, I also don’t know.

Lots of times I’ve had people on board my flights, as every pilot has, who had important reasons to get somewhere. Since I’ve been with an airline (1996-now), that has not influenced my or my flight deck partner’s decision on flight completion. It simply is not a player. Nor is saying “NO” ballsy. Although it was, at times, in my pre-airline flying career.

[digits_]

Pretty ballsy though from Westjet to cancel the whole flight in a time where they desperately need people to fly.

Another concern to add to the list of Westjet travellers: will everyone on board wear their mask, or will the flight get cancelled?

No sir, not balsy. Decisions to cancel flights are made routinely. Maintenance/weather/crew...the reasons to cancel a flight are numerous. I suspect the crew was in no mood to operate this flight with the elevated atmosphere in the cabin. The FAs have had their fill of being enforcers of mask usage and at some point they likely said “I’m done”. If that is the case, whether WJ was in a position on short notice to replace the crew or not, I don’t know. Whether or not they wanted to operate the flight with the elevated (I assume) emotions, I also don’t know.

Lots of times I’ve had people on board my flights, as every pilot has, who had important reasons to get somewhere. Since I’ve been with an airline (1996-now), that has not influenced my or my flight deck partner’s decision on flight completion. It simply is not a player. Nor is saying “NO” ballsy. Although it was, at times, in my pre-airline flying career.

To the travelling public the details don't matter. The flight got cancelled because there was an issue with the mask of one child on board. That is terrible PR in a time where you want to get as much people travelling again as possible. So yes, cancelling the flight instead of delaying it with a new crew is a ballsy move, be it made by ops/management or the pilots. Westjet, nor any airline, is not really in a position to turn away revenue.

Also, because something is a ballsy move does not mean it was necessarily a bad decision, only that it was a, well, ballsy move.

[rookiepilot]

Air travel is a privilege not a right.

So is having a job -- and paying customers, too.

A professionally trained flight crew is paid to deal with difficult situations-- professionally, no?

[Bede]

So is having a job -- and paying customers, too.

They weren't paying customers. They were on buddy passes. This is the kind of crap that results in the buddy pass system getting cancelled. Absolutely pathetic.

[rookiepilot]

So is having a job -- and paying customers, too.

They weren't paying customers. They were on buddy passes. This is the kind of crap that results in the buddy pass system getting cancelled. Absolutely pathetic.

The rest of the pax were most likely paying customers.

[ALPApolicy]

digits_, I’m in the fence whether it was a poor PR move. The CEO is on record as saying zero tolerance. This cancellation will stick in the minds of the passengers that zero tolerance is exactly that. If you choose to create problems with mask usage, you will not win that fight.

I have seen the photo of the police on board the flight. This tells me a lot. As a 16 year Captain with WestJet, I can count on one hand the number of times I remember having to have the police attend to a situation on board. The vast majority of the times, myself or an FA or the gate agent were all that were necessary to deal with matters that had escalated. I suspect that you and I will never hear the full details of the incident unless “Mr bad buddy pass user” decides to pursue legal means all the way to court. WJ will not release publicly the details of the incident. It is possible I will hear third/fourth hand information at work that will fully vindicate the actions of the crew. It is almost a complete certainty that WJ did not make the decision to ban the family from travelling without a fulsome review of all the facts as supplied by pilots, cabin crew, airport staff, and the police.

[digits_]

digits_, I’m in the fence whether it was a poor PR move. The CEO is on record as saying zero tolerance. This cancellation will stick in the minds of the passengers that zero tolerance is exactly that. If you choose to create problems with mask usage, you will not win that fight.

I admit it will certainly do that. Is that necessary though? Close to 99% of the people didn't need the CEO flexing about the zero tolerance, as they were following said policy. You'll always have people that are unwilling or unable to follow certain policies. What will stick in people's minds as well, is that having one of those on board, might cancel your WestJet flight.

It is almost a complete certainty that WJ did not make the decision to ban the family from travelling without a fulsome review of all the facts as supplied by pilots, cabin crew, airport staff, and the police.

Which might be appropriate, or not, that doesn't matter to those other pax whose flight got cancelled. If there were serious threats from other pax creating an unsafe situation prohibiting a safe flight, then I am surprised they were allowed on another flight.

[172cptn]

So what’s the actual story, was this situation with a 19 month old or were they over 2?

[AirFrame]

So what’s the actual story, was this situation with a 19 month old or were they over 2?

There were two children, a 19 month old, who was not required to wear a mask, and a 3 year old, who was.

[2R]

Did the passenger who vomited get screened for Covid before the next flight or did they just ignore a symptom of Covid to get on the next flight ?
Demonstrates the need for rapid testing at airports , for passengers who may have similar symptoms as the Covid 1984 .

[yhz41]

Well the passenger that vomited was a 19 month old child so...no? Children do that kind of thing without having covid.

[2R]

In normal times vomit might just be vomit , but as it is a symptom of Covid 1984 . Perhaps it should be taken seriously . Very few children have died from Covid ,but they are not immune from it .
Rapid tests might provide some assurances to other passengers who may be uncomfortable with being close to someone else’s pre-flight Vomit .

There are medical facilities in the Toronto Airport , but I do not know if they have rapid testing available yet . Or where the nearest rapid testing is available.

[Inverted2]

Projectile vomit could spew Kung Flu into the air and kill 99.7% of the other WJ guests on board. I think it’s time for a toddler ban. If it saves just one life.

[PostmasterGeneral]

It wasn't the toddler who was non-compliant. It was the 3 year old, who, is required to wear a mask.

Try getting a fussy 3 year old to do anything especially wear a mask for several hours. It’s like trying to keep a mask on an angry cat.

Sounds like shitty parenting to me? Kids act how you tell them to act. It’s called discipline.

[AuxBatOn]

It wasn't the toddler who was non-compliant. It was the 3 year old, who, is required to wear a mask.

Try getting a fussy 3 year old to do anything especially wear a mask for several hours. It’s like trying to keep a mask on an angry cat.

Sounds like shitty parenting to me? Kids act how you tell them to act. It’s called discipline.

Do you even have kids?!

[JBI]

digits_, I’m in the fence whether it was a poor PR move. The CEO is on record as saying zero tolerance. This cancellation will stick in the minds of the passengers that zero tolerance is exactly that. If you choose to create problems with mask usage, you will not win that fight.

I have seen the photo of the police on board the flight. This tells me a lot. As a 16 year Captain with WestJet, I can count on one hand the number of times I remember having to have the police attend to a situation on board. The vast majority of the times, myself or an FA or the gate agent were all that were necessary to deal with matters that had escalated. I suspect that you and I will never hear the full details of the incident unless “Mr bad buddy pass user” decides to pursue legal means all the way to court. WJ will not release publicly the details of the incident. It is possible I will hear third/fourth hand information at work that will fully vindicate the actions of the crew. It is almost a complete certainty that WJ did not make the decision to ban the family from travelling without a fulsome review of all the facts as supplied by pilots, cabin crew, airport staff, and the police.

I agree with ALPApolicy (surprise! ). The initial news reports weren't completely accurate on the events reported so while there was some blow-back, it definitely will reinforce to passengers that the company is serious on the mask enforcement.

Whether the crew was right or not, or overreacted or not, as a buddy pass traveler IT DOESN'T MATTER. If you're traveling on passes and the crew asks you to leave the aircraft, you do it. Period. It may be that the crew is completely wrong, there may be a good learning situation after the fact and it may have someone who traveled on passes decide to pay full fare on a different airline, but it doesn't matter. I read my friends/family the riot act before I give them passes (and truthfully don't give them to certain people I don't trust).

The third/fourth hand information that I have heard was that the cancellation decision was much more about the refusal of the buddy pass travelers to exit the aircraft and how it escalated that caused the crew to not feel comfortable to continue the flight.

I don't know if the crew would have handled this differently if it was a full fare passenger nor do I know what information the crew had, but again, it doesn't matter if the family was traveling on passes.

[EPR]

Wrong on so many levels, both crew and pax!

[northernpilot2]

It just amazes me how people think these days and how the rules are made. Are you telling me that just because of age we decide who should wear mask? So lets imagine this toddler's birthday was at midnight. Before midnight they dont need a mask, but as soon as its 12am all of a sudden they need a mask now.

This world is honestly getting crazier by the day. Jeez people get it together.

[photofly]

It just amazes me how people think these days and how the rules are made. Are you telling me that just because of age we decide who should wear mask? So lets imagine this toddler's birthday was at midnight. Before midnight they dont need a mask, but as soon as its 12am all of a sudden they need a mask now.

This world is honestly getting crazier by the day. Jeez people get it together.

Who’d have thought. One day before your nineteenth birthday, you can’t buy a drink. One day later... you can! Crazy.

Born just before midnight 31 December, you start school one year, born two minutes later, you go to school the next year. Jeez, people. Make your minds up.

If your kid is 1.449m tall around here they can ride in a car but need a booster seat. Grow one more lousy millimetre and now they don’t need a booster seat at all! Seriously, you couldn’t make this shit up if you tried.

[sstaurus]

Yes, we live in a society. Great observations.

[ALPApolicy]

I agree with ALPApolicy (surprise! )...

No sir, not a surprise. You have extensive training in logic

As an employee, I too am expected to be inconspicuous when travelling stand by. Most of the time I have succeeded. But not always. Last year I forgot where I was and found myself seated on-board a WJ plane wearing a Trump 2020 ball cap and a great shirt with a large, very large photo of Trump’s face on the front and back.

After a few minutes, the lead FA leaned over and told me that the Captain would like to see me. I ventured forward and was delighted to see a great guy from Saskatchewan, son of a well known hog farmer from the eastern part of the province. Reluctantly it seemed, he informed me that there had been a few complaints on my attire. So I put on a coat and ate my hat and everyone was happy.

The rules of standby travel are clear: don’t draw attention to yourself.

[rookiepilot]

Not being a commercial pilot, the analogy I see is this -- the paying passenger point of view -- remember the customer in all of this discussion?

I'm sitting down to dinner at a nice steakhouse with my family. It's the only one in town. Myself and 200 other guests are just having their dinners put in front of us.

At one of the other tables, an employee and his friends are drunk and being rowdy, and not listening to the servers trying to get them to quiet down. Police are called, and eventually the rowdy party leaves.

Instead of that being the end of it, the manager comes and kicks everyone out and closes the restaurant, because the servers are now too upset to work.

This is a training issue, and that shouldn't penalize 200 other well behaved passengers because a few Karen's can't handle things, and call the police.

I don't agree with the presumption that because the police were called, it was justified, the flight was cancelled, it was justified. I've seen both racist and abusive attitude flight crew in many years of travel. Very rare, but I've seen it.

As a passenger with a busy schedule I have Zero tolerance for the customer service that was shown here, zero tolerance works both ways.

Want to cancel the flight? Compensate me for my time -- a lot. In cash. Did that happen?

I accept the pass holder may have been out of line. Who knows? What about the 98% of well behaved pax who got their flight cancelled?

They heard: Get out, and STFU. Flying is a privilege, not a right. Nice. So is having a job, people, when aviation is slow.

Let's remember the facts: WJ says a "majority" of their "guests" were "accommodated" the next day. Which means, some guests with children, had to exit a plane at midnight, lose 2 or more days of their schedule, and find a place to stay, stand in lines with their children.

This is a very, very big deal. WJ couldn't call in another crew? In Calgary? Now?

I won't, and haven't been, flying Westjet, because my perception is their service has gone way way down, and they don't care about their well behaved passengers. I'll happily pay much more to fly on another carrier without that problem.

As a passenger I don't care about Westjet or their problems. I'm busy. We're all busy. just want to get where I need to go.

[Rockie]

Projectile vomit could spew Kung Flu into the air and kill 99.7% of the other WJ guests on board. I think it’s time for a toddler ban. If it saves just one life.

As the biggest threat to the world with this virus has been and remains the United States, you would appear more intelligent and less racist if you called it by its proper name.

Airlines have been transporting hundreds of thousands of people sitting in close quarters for hours at a time, but no outbreaks have been attributed to them. Why not do you think?

Could it be because they are careful and rigidly enforce the rules?

There’s probably a lesson in there somewhere for dimwits.