More WJ layoffs

[ahramin]

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021 ... 901&orgid=

According to a recent survey by the Harris Poll, 71% of Americans say they miss socializing in restaurants and bars, 61% say they miss shopping in stores and 52% say they miss movie theaters. Growing percentages of people say they're planning on splurging on vacations, clothes, cars and sporting events when things return to normal. Fifty-nine percent say they would take a COVID-19 vaccine in order to fly again. After news broke that COVID-19 vaccines work, stocks for airlines, cruise lines and other industries that rely on being face-to-face surged.

Places that have gotten the virus under control have already seen some impressive rebounds in travel and leisure. For example, in China, domestic airline travel came roaring back after the country ended its shutdowns. When Shanghai Disneyland reopened, tickets sold out in minutes.

[Thumper45]

D you have avcommie.ca ready to roll out?

LMAO.
However its only funny till its not and you have a cop standing out front of your house because you were out pas curfew......think it wont happen? Go take a look at Quebec right now.

As for returning to normal, it will NEVER be how it was before. There is 0% chance of that.
Will things move more back towards what they where? Sure. But the number of businesses that have found that they can operate from home or remote offices. Conduct meetings via Zoom/Skype has shot through the roof.
These same companies are now seeing that they are able to cut overhead by not having to have an office space or a much smaller one.

My wife works for a very large insurance company and 2020 was there biggest year, BY FAR, and they were all working from home. They have already said they will never return back to how it was before. There are thousands of other businesses that have switched to this same idea because at the end it saves them money, time and space.

So yes, there will be business travel returning, but it will never be to the levels it was at. Same with regular commercial travel. Not for a long long while will it.

I would agree that business won’t be the same. But business travel will get close over time I think. That is different then talking about an office that has tonnes of overhead and requires significant capital investment.

If we are sharing anecdotes, my brother runs an engineering firm and they have projects all around North America that are waiting for installs because they need someone on site with the technical expertise. And for getting new customers and dealing with clients a zoom call may not cut it, when the other guy is willing to show up and go over the project in person.

Much smaller scale, but who is the average person going to hire to landscape their property. The guy that comes out looks at the property, has discussions, give tips and expert advice that can be shared onsite with the property owner. Or the guy who takes some photos over email, a shot from google earth and shares his plans over zoom. This type of thing is so much of what business travel is.

I agree, to some extent, however the world we live in has been moving towards a digital life for a long time. COVID has accelerated this to a degree that was not anticipated to happen for 10+ years.
There are many who do need to be in person for jobs, those are the people who will travel. However the world has shifted, very much so due to COVID, to finding alternative means of doing business. This has, and will continue, to put less need on things like air travel. Yes, there will still be businesses that require in person work to take place and people will still travel for vacations, but it will be at a lower rate.
This also does not take into account the massive economic hit we are all taking. Those that would vacation 1-2 times a year may not be in a position to do that for many years to come. I have watched people who, prior to all of this, were living a rather lavished life but now are nearing the point of bankruptcy.

There are a huge number of variables, but the largest number of those variables would lead to less air travel for the foreseeable future. Aviation will change as part of this. I can say, with 100% certainty, that things will not get back to pre-COVID levels of air travel for a very long time. Likely not in my lifetime. And that is backed by economists who believe, based upon the damage done, we have caused a massive shift of how the modern economic world runs.

With regards to the example of a landscaper. The younger generation of people are very much about ease of life, keeping costs down and making informed decisions. That being said, I know far more people who would value a Google review or Facebook ratings of clients than they would take the word of the landscaper. COVID has only reinforced this mindset. Hell, I had a virtual tour with a painting company because the wife and I decided we wanted to get the house painted and they could do it over video call with no need to come to our home. This saved me time and money as they could do this any time I liked. Saved the painting company overhead because no vehicle or person needed to come to my home.

Not to say that this is always the case, but in todays world where every piece of info can be in your pocket via a smart phone, I will base who I contact for a service greatly on the previous experience of others. In my time on this earth I have met many people who talk the talk but can not walk the walk.

[Thumper45]

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021 ... 901&orgid=

According to a recent survey by the Harris Poll, 71% of Americans say they miss socializing in restaurants and bars, 61% say they miss shopping in stores and 52% say they miss movie theaters. Growing percentages of people say they're planning on splurging on vacations, clothes, cars and sporting events when things return to normal. Fifty-nine percent say they would take a COVID-19 vaccine in order to fly again. After news broke that COVID-19 vaccines work, stocks for airlines, cruise lines and other industries that rely on being face-to-face surged.

Places that have gotten the virus under control have already seen some impressive rebounds in travel and leisure. For example, in China, domestic airline travel came roaring back after the country ended its shutdowns. When Shanghai Disneyland reopened, tickets sold out in minutes.

All people want to, but when things go back to normal many jobs will be gone or forever changed. The economy will be in the hole and the average person will not have the money for any of that. The easy way to look at this is, look at the number of people who tool financial aid from the government because of COVID. Now times that by 4. As far as statistics, this is roughly accurate to the number of people who, once things "normalize" will be suffering even further. These are the same people who are wanting to socialize, go out, vacation and so on.

Other areas are not in the same situation. The fact that they have had this under control far longer than we have means they do not suffer the same economic downturns that we will be seeing. So they will see surges in travel and sports and food services.
Here in BC, when the assistance ends, people who now have no jobs are forced to try and find jobs in a market where business owners are trying to hold everything together and can afford to hire, you will not see this happen. Over 10,000 restaurants have closed in all of Canada with well over half being permanent as of Dec 20th. Thats 800,000 jobs across Canada gone. A 93 billion dollar industry reduced to less than 30billion in a year. No vax will fix this anytime soon. If we had acted like Australia or other countries then perhaps this would simply be a bad memory.

As for in person being an advantage, that is no longer the case. It has not been the case in some time and has nearly been eradicated due to COVID.
If it were then you would see small business surging in growth and places like Amazon and Skip The Dishes failing miserably. The average person does not care about a face to face business, they care about the result and cost. COVID has forced business to shift digital and once they do that its near impossible to come back from except in situations where a face to face is necessary (ie construction or manual laboring type situations)

[Freeport_Flyer]

Some thread drift but certainly an interesting take on the Canadian political climate and where we think the industry is going or not going. But what about the short term? As the thread title looks at More WJ layoffs; any rumours from Team Teal on this. Your MOA ends at the end of March? How many are planning to exercise seniority rights to secure a left seat at Encore?

[EPR]

Too bad Trudeau dropped the ball..again...and didn't order enough vaccine for our Country! (of course you will never hear this from our mainstream media) This happened because he was counting on Chynnnaaa to come through for us, and they didn't! Now we are last in line for approved vaccines! To date, less than 1% of Canadians have been vaccinated! People have since died due to his incompetence!

Huh? At 400 million ordered doses, we have one of the largest per capita vaccine procurements of any country in the world...

Ordered, but when will it get delivered? We're last in line for delivery, Provinces are running low on vaccines!

[stickontheice]

I think everyone is nervous about things to come after this MOA expires. The federal government seems hell bent on crushing Canadian aviation. Having said that when the recovery happens it’s going to be sharp. Laying off pilots will be extremely expensive if companies are trying to ramp up to meet traditional summertime demand and they find there’s even more demand. Once the vaccine has been distributed to the vulnerable then who are we protecting? I think economies will be eager to capture tourism dollars this summer. Especially the maritimes.

If you look at stocks like Zoom. It plummeted after the vaccine was announced. As soon as someone makes money with business travel again then everyone will do it. Nothing replaces face to face meetings. It’s going to take some more time and I’m impatient too. I thought the vaccine would be instant gratification but it’s not. But we need to stay steady. There’s still a SIGMET out for a lousy job market. However it won’t be long before a NOTAM is issued by the economic signals already being given that companies better ramp up.

I think there’ll be some layoffs but I don’t think it’ll be as severe as the first round. I would definitely consider bumping down to Encore if it means a job.

[JBI]

Huh? At 400 million ordered doses, we have one of the largest per capita vaccine procurements of any country in the world...

Ordered, but when will it get delivered? We're last in line for delivery, Provinces are running low on vaccines!

While I've been exceptionally critical of Trudeau recently , this is one thing they've appeared to be doing ok on. There's a pretty informative website on when vaccines will be delivered to the different provinces. Currently it's only updated until end of Feb https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... fADfyKYU2I but will continue to be updated.

It seems that March will be similar, but starting April there will be very significant vaccination rates: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vaccin ... -1.5872766 "Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin, the military commander leading Canada's COVID-19 vaccine logistics, said today that manufacturers are expected to deliver up to one million doses a week starting in April."

[doiwannabeapilot]

You should keep being critical.
Canada is doing LOUSY. Check Israel, check USA, check UK. We are behind in vaccinations per capita.

The current spin/strategy from the government is to undersell their pathetic performance; deliver slightly less pathetic performance and say, 'look how great we did....we improved the vaccine delivery time by xx months."

Mr Blackface adores communist China so much;
The big problem was signing a deal to develop a vaccine with CanSino, a Chinese firm that cut Canada out of the system months after the May 12 announcement. The Trudeau government didn’t start signing deals with other vaccine candidates until August.

God help us if they get elected again.

Its Trudeaus wet dream to have Canadian emissions reduced; and aviation is the low hanging fruit.

P.S. Since the new variant is called the UK strain; we should forthwith call it the Chinese virus.
As a UK'er I feel triggered, offended, and my feelings are hurt. Who do i sue for PTSD, loss of enjoyment of life.
What's your retainer JBI ? haha

Huh? At 400 million ordered doses, we have one of the largest per capita vaccine procurements of any country in the world...

Ordered, but when will it get delivered? We're last in line for delivery, Provinces are running low on vaccines!

While I've been exceptionally critical of Trudeau recently , this is one thing they've appeared to be doing ok on. There's a pretty informative website on when vaccines will be delivered to the different provinces. Currently it's only updated until end of Feb https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... fADfyKYU2I but will continue to be updated.

It seems that March will be similar, but starting April there will be very significant vaccination rates: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vaccin ... -1.5872766 "Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin, the military commander leading Canada's COVID-19 vaccine logistics, said today that manufacturers are expected to deliver up to one million doses a week starting in April."

[W5]

Canadian airlines’ coronavirus anguish far from over

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/c ... btiTD92JDY

[telex]

Huh? At 400 million ordered doses, we have one of the largest per capita vaccine procurements of any country in the world...

Ordered, but when will it get delivered? We're last in line for delivery, Provinces are running low on vaccines!

While I've been exceptionally critical of Trudeau recently , this is one thing they've appeared to be doing ok on. There's a pretty informative website on when vaccines will be delivered to the different provinces. Currently it's only updated until end of Feb https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... fADfyKYU2I but will continue to be updated.

It seems that March will be similar, but starting April there will be very significant vaccination rates: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vaccin ... -1.5872766 "Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin, the military commander leading Canada's COVID-19 vaccine logistics, said today that manufacturers are expected to deliver up to one million doses a week starting in April."

Did you really use a cbc propaganda piece to make your case for supporting truedope?

[GRK2]

CBC propaganda.
Serious question. Which news provider do you trust?

[telex]

CBC propaganda.
Serious question. Which news provider do you trust?

None.

But especially not an organization that only exists to serve the lib masters.

[GRK2]

So it's really just none then.
There's not enough room between any of them to even fit a piece of paper.

[JBI]

Did you really use a cbc propaganda piece to make your case for supporting truedope?

Yikes - didn't think my post came across as supporting him. That's the last thing I wanted! I have very little confidence in his ability to lead. But, yes, I referred to Canadian Forces Maj-Gen Fortin's quote that was in a CBC article :p

[Freeport_Flyer]

Looks like the COO is the next layoff!

Wings Mag article

[lostaviator]

Whether there will me more layoffs or not is going to be an interesting thing to see unfold. I fall somewhere in the middle of the overly optimistic / overly pessimistic spectrum in terms of recovery. The fact so many Canadian's were willing to travel this winter when given the chance says a lot. Zoom has its limitations and like government trying to "stay small", corporate travel will balloon again. Who doesn't like a few nights away from the family to "work"?

Regarding more layoffs. It will be interesting. They have carried the current roster through the pandemic to date, why stop now when there's a light at the end of the tunnel? They are paying for every active pilot to travel down to Florida for sim. The PTA still has a purpose in that it would cost them a lot to bump pilots (again) for what could be a short lived period. Who knows?

My bet: They will publish another reduction bid to scare people again, and then ask for a similar MOA for another 6 months to take us to fall 2021.

[George Taylor]

I don't think WJ is paying for the the Miami training, could be wrong, but I think it's on Boeing's dime. Why is there such a rush to pump approx. 1000 pilots for 13 tails?

[x-wind]

It'll be a race to get market share when travel bans lift. The won't layoff any more pilots. There going to try get them flying Swoop airplanes at half the wage tho.

Corporate restructuring was going to be happening anyway with regards to the recent layoffs.

[lostaviator]

I don't think WJ is paying for the the Miami training, could be wrong, but I think it's on Boeing's dime. Why is there such a rush to pump approx. 1000 pilots for 13 tails?

I didn’t realize Boeing was covering this bill. It’s hard to know these things as a private company now.

I’m guessing only sending some pilots down would create more issues than the one time bill to just get it done. Splitting the group would create a new “position” in some way. Different blocks, different vacation blocks, more reserve lines. The one person left at campus can’t even figure out how to schedule the new reserve properly!

The last few layoff LOU’s have provided me with some stability and I’m grateful to still be working, but I’m ready to say no on the next one (if we get a vote). I’ve seen enough of the cards to make a no vote an appropriate gamble.

[WestJet Puke]

Looks like the COO is the next layoff!

Wings Mag article

Sad. JM was a good guy in my interactions with him. His job walks a tightrope with all the competing interests, and that is putting it mildly. Wish him the best.

[Squid]

Whether there will me more layoffs or not is going to be an interesting thing to see unfold. I fall somewhere in the middle of the overly optimistic / overly pessimistic spectrum in terms of recovery. The fact so many Canadian's were willing to travel this winter when given the chance says a lot. Zoom has its limitations and like government trying to "stay small", corporate travel will balloon again. Who doesn't like a few nights away from the family to "work"?

Regarding more layoffs. It will be interesting. They have carried the current roster through the pandemic to date, why stop now when there's a light at the end of the tunnel? They are paying for every active pilot to travel down to Florida for sim. The PTA still has a purpose in that it would cost them a lot to bump pilots (again) for what could be a short lived period. Who knows?

My bet: They will publish another reduction bid to scare people again, and then ask for a similar MOA for another 6 months to take us to fall 2021.

So correct me if I’m Wrong here but if you have an MOA expiring at the end of March and a negotiation to do in order to meet guidelines in the CA don’t you have to post a reduction bid or layoff anyway? Those timelines have to be met so I don’t think it’s fear mongering.

[lostaviator]

Whether there will me more layoffs or not is going to be an interesting thing to see unfold. I fall somewhere in the middle of the overly optimistic / overly pessimistic spectrum in terms of recovery. The fact so many Canadian's were willing to travel this winter when given the chance says a lot. Zoom has its limitations and like government trying to "stay small", corporate travel will balloon again. Who doesn't like a few nights away from the family to "work"?

Regarding more layoffs. It will be interesting. They have carried the current roster through the pandemic to date, why stop now when there's a light at the end of the tunnel? They are paying for every active pilot to travel down to Florida for sim. The PTA still has a purpose in that it would cost them a lot to bump pilots (again) for what could be a short lived period. Who knows?

My bet: They will publish another reduction bid to scare people again, and then ask for a similar MOA for another 6 months to take us to fall 2021.

So correct me if I’m Wrong here but if you have an MOA expiring at the end of March and a negotiation to do in order to meet guidelines in the CA don’t you have to post a reduction bid or layoff anyway? Those timelines have to be met so I don’t think it’s fear mongering.

Maybe I have tried too hard to forget 2020, but I don’t think that was the case between MOA2 and MOA3. As long as the lay-off numbers stay the same (450), I don’t think they would have to do that. But I guess it all comes down to timing and how early they decide to start talking.

[JBI]

Maybe I have tried too hard to forget 2020, but I don’t think that was the case between MOA2 and MOA3. As long as the lay-off numbers stay the same (450), I don’t think they would have to do that. But I guess it all comes down to timing and how early they decide to start talking.

For this upcoming expiry of MOA3, it wouldn't surprise me to see a reduction bid - not as a scare tactic (though that may be the secondary effect), but because the company is obligated to provide 30 days notice for any additional lay-offs pursuant to the CBA (section 20-1.04).

For the initial lay-offs the company took the position that COVID was Force Majeure and that 30 days notice was not required - that was a reasonable position. It would be much harder to make that argument now. So IF it is the company's position that more lay-offs could be required if there is not an extension of the current or renegotiation of a new MOA, a bid and giving layoff notices is something that they'd be contractually obligated to do.

[EPR]

Too bad Trudeau dropped the ball..again...and didn't order enough vaccine for our Country! (of course you will never hear this from our mainstream media) This happened because he was counting on Chynnnaaa to come through for us, and they didn't! Now we are last in line for approved vaccines! To date, less than 1% of Canadians have been vaccinated! People have since died due to his incompetence!

Huh? At 400 million ordered doses, we have one of the largest per capita vaccine procurements of any country in the world...

Ordered, but when will it get delivered? We're last in line for delivery, Provinces are running low on vaccines!

Hot Wings, you pull your head out of your ass yet? #NotEnoughVaccine
At the current vaccination rate here in Canada, it will be 2034 before all Canadians are vaccinated, never mind the current rate of mutation! Good luck everyone!

[Freeport_Flyer]

Hot Wings, you pull your head out of your ass yet? #NotEnoughVaccine
At the current vaccination rate here in Canada, it will be 2034 before all Canadians are vaccinated, never mind the current rate of mutation! Good luck everyone!

So you think there will be more WJ layoffs?