Is the Gripen E a real contender?

[Mach1]

We'll be lucky to have a CF18 replacement in place by 2130.

That's OK...we'll still be paying off covid then!

Fixed that for you.

[Launchpad1]

It's a shame the Boeing F15SE got cancelled. That would probably have been the perfect Fast Jet for Canada. Maybe some interest from Canada would make Boeing reconsider starting the program again.

[schnitzel2k3]

It's a shame the Boeing F15SE got cancelled. That would probably have been the perfect Fast Jet for Canada. Maybe some interest from Canada would make Boeing reconsider starting the program again.

Did that turn into the F15EX?

What a machine those F15s are. I don't know if qualifies for the multirole aspect like the F18s, J39 or I guess the F35.

S.

[Launchpad1]

Did that turn into the F15EX?

Hmm I'm not sure, I think the F15 Silent Eagle was a more stealthy variant designed as a slightly cheaper option to obtain stealth.

If I was the Canadian combat aircraft buyer guy I'd be on the phone to Boeing asking to talk about it. Twin engine, proven abilities, Boeing aircraft, stealthy, perfect.

[tailgunner]

Launchpad1,
The F15EX is basically a F15SE without the canted tails.
It is modeled on the F15 E. it has that the E’s heavy wing, and tandem seating. Except, the EX will be crewed by one pilot, with a hugely improved cockpit.
It actually makes a lot of sense for Canada to look at this variant, if the Libs. fear the political embarrassment of selecting the F35. The USAF has earmarked an order for 144. They will perform the air defence role out of bases like Portland, Bedford, and New Orleans. It will outfly and out range the Super Hornet by a wide margin, and will probably have some air to ground capability added.
Cheers.

[co-joe]

I still think we should just buy 50 or so F-16's. Keep uncle Sam happy, fill the void, maintain Nato preparedness. Then keep 2 squadrons of F-18s operational for arctic mission if 1 engine really scares you that badly. Then if we have the bucks down the road, replace the 12 or so Hornets with F35's.

[SpyPilot]

F**K Uncle Sam and the horse he rode in on.

Canada was capable of building and flying the worlds most advanced interceptor in 1953.

Revive and re-design a multi role platform based on the bones of the CF-105.

Have none of you been listening to the 2020 mantra of "Stay local, support local and buy local" ?

[schnitzel2k3]

F**K Uncle Sam and the horse he rode in on.

Canada was capable of building and flying the worlds most advanced interceptor in 1953.

Revive and re-design a multi role platform based on the bones of the CF-105.

Have none of you been listening to the 2020 mantra of "Stay local, support local and buy local" ?

It's 2021. All that goes out the window.

[dhc#]

Launchpad1,
The F15EX is basically a F15SE without the canted tails.
It is modeled on the F15 E. it has that the E’s heavy wing, and tandem seating. Except, the EX will be crewed by one pilot, with a hugely improved cockpit.
It actually makes a lot of sense for Canada to look at this variant, if the Libs. fear the political embarrassment of selecting the F35. The USAF has earmarked an order for 144. They will perform the air defence role out of bases like Portland, Bedford, and New Orleans. It will outfly and out range the Super Hornet by a wide margin, and will probably have some air to ground capability added.
Cheers.

One can dream.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... nt-fighter

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... the-f-15ex

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... ever-built

[frosti]

F**K Uncle Sam and the horse he rode in on.

Canada was capable of building and flying the worlds most advanced interceptor in 1953.

Revive and re-design a multi role platform based on the bones of the CF-105.

Have none of you been listening to the 2020 mantra of "Stay local, support local and buy local" ?

1953 was 70 years ago pops. 70!. Anyone who thinks Canada has the capability to produce world-class fighters is delusional.

[TheStig]

Launchpad1,
The F15EX is basically a F15SE without the canted tails.
It is modeled on the F15 E. it has that the E’s heavy wing, and tandem seating. Except, the EX will be crewed by one pilot, with a hugely improved cockpit.
It actually makes a lot of sense for Canada to look at this variant, if the Libs. fear the political embarrassment of selecting the F35. The USAF has earmarked an order for 144. They will perform the air defence role out of bases like Portland, Bedford, and New Orleans. It will outfly and out range the Super Hornet by a wide margin, and will probably have some air to ground capability added.
Cheers.

The F-15EX is being purchased by the USAF because their existing F-15C airframes are reaching the end of their lifespan. The ANG forces in Oregon, Massachusetts and Louisiana all currently fly F-15's and the new aircraft will be added easily. The F-15EX is a carbon copy of the F-15QA and it's development has been funded by the Qatari's. I agree that this aircraft will offer tremendous range and firepower in the self-defence roles, but it doesn't have a future in the RCAF as it's St. Louis sibling, the F-18 Super Hornet, offers very similar capabilities and has a solid base of supporters in Canada (in the Military and Parliament).

The US Navy's renewed faith in the Block III F/A-18 will provide it a boost in the RCAF competition but so far their appears to be limited interest in any other foreign sales competitions, which could be telling. The US Navy 'wears out' its equipment at a much quicker rate and Boeing is likely to stop producing Hornet spares much earlier than the F-35 program.

Canadians need to realize two things; 1) that we require capable frontline military equipment as we have an important role to play in global stability alongside our allies. 2) We got out of the fighter jet business a long time ago, both in development and production. The United States (who have made a point of ensuring three manufacturers stay in the game), Sweden and France have made a point of funding indigenous projects and the EU consolidated projects (although the UK appears to be ready to go at it alone again).

If you don't build on technological progress your talent goes elsewhere. Ours for the most part has, although we still have a number of companies producing parts for both the F/A-18 and F-35. The problem seems to be that the 'Industrial Benefits' touted in military acquisitions amount to nothing more than political points and come at the cost of not only higher acquisition and support prices passed along to tax payers but also, long over due, potentially inferior outdated equipment for our military.

I think most of us would like to see military acquisitions removed from the political theatre but unfortunately voters have proven otherwise time and time again. It's unlikely we'll hear any announcement before the next election anyways.

[Launchpad1]

Launchpad1,
The F15EX is basically a F15SE without the canted tails.
It is modeled on the F15 E. it has that the E’s heavy wing, and tandem seating. Except, the EX will be crewed by one pilot, with a hugely improved cockpit.
It actually makes a lot of sense for Canada to look at this variant, if the Libs. fear the political embarrassment of selecting the F35. The USAF has earmarked an order for 144. They will perform the air defence role out of bases like Portland, Bedford, and New Orleans. It will outfly and out range the Super Hornet by a wide margin, and will probably have some air to ground capability added.
Cheers.

Ah right that's good to know, thanks for the info!

Sooo basically the best way forward for Canada IMO would be to buy some F15EX, get all the benefits from buying another Boeing product, reduced economies of scale etc then get in now on the UK's Team Tempest and have a world class 6th gen fighter by about 2040. Canada is already working with BAE on the type 26 frigate so that would be a good learning curve for working with them on the Tempest. Disclaimer I'm originally from the UK and would like the UK and Canada to work together.

[Mach1]

The F-15EX is being purchased by the USAF because their existing F-15C airframes are reaching the end of their lifespan.

And... because the US cancelled the F-22 program after ~125 airframes and not the 400+ they originally ordered.

I thought this was an interesting idea. You buy a nice fleet of F-35's with all their integrated battlefield technology and flying behind them, a very fast fighter carrying a rather large missile supply that gets tasked and fired by the stealthy fighters up on the front line. https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... new-f-15x/

It's a dream concept for Canada but it has merits.

[2R]

F**K Uncle Sam and the horse he rode in on.

Canada was capable of building and flying the worlds most advanced interceptor in 1953.

Revive and re-design a multi role platform based on the bones of the CF-105.

Have none of you been listening to the 2020 mantra of "Stay local, support local and buy local" ?

1953 was 70 years ago pops. 70!. Anyone who thinks Canada has the capability to produce world-class fighters is delusional.

You might be right, as Canada used to discover and manufacture Vaccines . Why that all got shipped out of country is a mystery .
A lot of really important stuff has been given low priority over the last few decades .

We used to build refineries as well . I hear more refineries being closed than being opened . Refineries make more money than the raw oil out of the ground fetches . One of the most profitable companies in the world ; Aramco made 110 billion dollars refining oil while Alberta was getting five bucks a barrel for the raw oil .
Some airlines own refineries . Delta made more money from it refinery division than its Airline most years .

[co-joe]

F**K Uncle Sam and the horse he rode in on.

Canada was capable of building and flying the worlds most advanced interceptor in 1953.

Revive and re-design a multi role platform based on the bones of the CF-105.

Have none of you been listening to the 2020 mantra of "Stay local, support local and buy local" ?

1953 was 70 years ago pops. 70!. Anyone who thinks Canada has the capability to produce world-class fighters is delusional.

It's been proven over and over that when Uncle Sam wants to squash a Canadian industry like a bug, there's nothing we can do about it. Softwood lumber, steel exports to the US, the C series tarrifs, none of them legal and all of them were devastating to Canada. Buy American, don't be stupid.

[Mick G]

F**K Uncle Sam and the horse he rode in on.

Canada was capable of building and flying the worlds most advanced interceptor in 1953.

Revive and re-design a multi role platform based on the bones of the CF-105.

Have none of you been listening to the 2020 mantra of "Stay local, support local and buy local" ?

1953 was 70 years ago pops. 70!. Anyone who thinks Canada has the capability to produce world-class fighters is delusional.

It's been proven over and over that when Uncle Sam wants to squash a Canadian industry like a bug, there's nothing we can do about it. Softwood lumber, steel exports to the US, the C series tarrifs, none of them legal and all of them were devastating to Canada. Buy American, don't be stupid.

Keystone XL..........

[co-joe]

1953 was 70 years ago pops. 70!. Anyone who thinks Canada has the capability to produce world-class fighters is delusional.

It's been proven over and over that when Uncle Sam wants to squash a Canadian industry like a bug, there's nothing we can do about it. Softwood lumber, steel exports to the US, the C series tarrifs, none of them legal and all of them were devastating to Canada. Buy American, don't be stupid.

Keystone XL..........

Exactly. I wonder if a well timed purchase of 50 Vipers would help that situation?

[frosti]

It's been proven over and over that when Uncle Sam wants to squash a Canadian industry like a bug, there's nothing we can do about it. Softwood lumber, steel exports to the US, the C series tarrifs, none of them legal and all of them were devastating to Canada. Buy American, don't be stupid.

Keystone XL..........

Exactly. I wonder if a well timed purchase of 50 Vipers would help that situation?

To do what with.

[2R]

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... tion-shake
Looks like the USA is buying more F15’s and more F16’s . They are not putting all their eggs in the one basket or basket case

[oldncold]

Yes, 3800 ft gravel road landed refuel, rearm pure dog fighter. low cost mean more seat time. for those on pointy end. of the spear. I'd package deal with 88 Grippen and 50 f35's. F35 find the bad actors. with its. superior sensor suite the Grippen removes the stragglers . last I checked. Canada is only looking at the single eng version of the f35 the usn is using the. twin jet version but range is an issue. a lot more air to air refueling. in 1980 canada bought 137 f18a the size of the country has not changed and if you don't have sufficient #. by attrition you lose the air war, lose that and the ground troops take a unending thumping. game set match. the technical advantages of the F35 can be overcome by superior #s only by mission packaging the Grippen with. the F35 does canada stand a shot at denying adversaries our airspace

[tailgunner]

Oldncold,
A few corrections to your post. The F35 only has one engine in all 3 variants. The USN F35C has a larger wing, carries more fuel, has no internal gun, and has a lower rated G. It has 1 engine.
Canada originally ordered 138 CF188’s, as they were known. Through attrition and cut backs, the RCAF has upgraded and fields around 80. Some of these are quickly approaching their life limits.
At any one time the RCAF has 6-8 CF18’s that are fully combat ready and able to be deployed on behalf of NATO or NORAD.
The idea that the RCAF can scramble 65-80 fighters at once is not realistic. Furthermore, the assertion that the RCAF could conduct operations from a gravel road really shows a lack of understanding on the logistics involved with that endeavour. The only way it would be remotely feasible is to have permanent propositioned operational equipment, fuel, stores, and the like.
Cheers

[oldncold]

In response to tailgunner., 1)was short one airframe of the f18a purchase sorry about that I thought they lost 1 in that first year..
2)many posters here on this topic are under the impression that the f35 had 2 engines, there was in the design stages there were 2 eng options. but only the usn considered 2 eng version.

3)my point on the grippen able to land rearm ,refuel from 3800 gravel road is valid, adversaries WILL take out the fighter fields and command comms. logistically,I agree not easy but very doable guess comes down to how bad do you want win or lose our case in canada deny the adverasary the airspace Canada strategy has to be similar in principle to the UK in ww2 if not in tactics. our homeland / we fight //to be fair, lets review a bit of history > in the 70's, n 80,s the one item in the ussr's kit that made the usa and the nato allies, in europe have fits was the mobile nuke lanchers. difficult to target. . fast forward Canada has thousands of km of gravel. the grippen having that off strip option in the tool bag, a series of underground jet fuel storage tanks mobile ammo caches/true that is expensive, being away from known fighter bases that a 6x6 can roll up to pump on 3000 liters /move 20-50km to keep c.a.p.fighters in the fight is ,a very good tool to have . I personally think that rural canada would welome the economic uptick by having the cap ready gripen take up residence n small towns strategically placed around the country . avoiding the pearl harbour effect when the crap hits the fan.

AS for logistically fielding sufficient # I think we both can agree building an airforce is not a snap the fingers and presto combat ready . history shows that it is a 5-7 year project. to build in those options . so ultiminatley that is a matter of political will . That is why I worry that the political elites once again will shaft the longterm good for political cover . tail gunner , hope was an intelligent discourse to your comments/ fly safe

[dhc#]

US Air Force Eyes Drones For Adversary And Light Attack Roles As It Mulls Buying New F-16s

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... -new-f-16s

[frosti]

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... tion-shake
Looks like the USA is buying more F15’s and more F16’s . They are not putting all their eggs in the one basket or basket case

Nowhere does that article say they are buying more F15's F16s. Another garbage 'journalistic' attempt at news.

All your posts

It amazes me how stunned some gripen supporters are spreading misinformation, it's like a cult following.... I don't blame you however, SAAB themselves are completely delusional. You really need to read the Swiss evaluation of the Gripen, it got absolutely demolished when compared to the F-35, Super Hornet, Rafale and Eurofighter. It barely beats the F-5 and is maybe on-par with the legacy F-18. Unless Canada actually goes for Gripen E its only ever replaced F-5s in Brazil and Switzerland. It has yet to replace a teen fighter-- it always loses whenever it competes against them. That should really tell you a lot.

[co-joe]

Keystone XL..........

Exactly. I wonder if a well timed purchase of 50 Vipers would help that situation?

To do what with.

Defend our sovereignty, and maintain our NATO obligations. The US bought the F16 because they couldn't afford as many F15's as they thought they needed to "defend freedom". Now a generation later and they are still buying Vipers to top up the fleet. Nobody can afford the latest and greatest, least of all a small country of 38 million people.