haironfire wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:37 pm
I will start by saying I have no vested interest in either party currently, but in the future who knows these days? I do not mean this any negative way, only an observation from the cheap seats.
Our industry is very raw meat right now and there is a lot of play going on in boardrooms (with masks on) feasting on other's wounds, or at least trying to. A big game play. There will be a lot of maneuvering, like a horse race.
I used to fly C-GMYH. Look it up. Skyservice Airlines flying Sunwing passengers. I know Mark Williams, since I had him in the jumpseat YYZ-CUN while his family was in the back. We talked the whole way, including during takeoff and landing. (Just kidding).. A very nice, energetic, smart business man. This will be above his level.
Who came first, the tour operator, or the airline? Who will go out last? It won't be the airline.
For all those Sunwing Airline Employees I would be very focused in the rearview mirror. Watch out for Flair. Currently expanding, ultra low cost, got all the sim time booked, current pilots, new efficient planes.
They could slide right in under your feet.
I could be wrong, and I have many times with women, but not planes.
Sunwing also has new efficient aircraft. We have six MAXs with more to come in the following years with some being dry and wet leases from TUI. Why would Sunwing Travel group hire another airline to do all of it's flying when it has its own? There's a reason it has its own. Sunwing's Canada operation during normal times as way to many customers than seat available at other carried. We only use other carries when we test out a new market by buying 20-30 seats per week for example because there's not enough people to justify an entire aircraft and crew. Sunwing Airlines is not designed to make money. It's designed to cut cost buy not having pay hundreds of millions to other airlines to fly our customers. Contracting a handful of airlines to do all our lift is complicated and unreliable. Canjet and SkyService didn't work for a reason. Why would Flair do it? Flair is going after the Wizair/EasyJet model of flying their own as a schedule ULCC.
Sunwing Airlines and Nexus buses down south provide in-house transportation to Sunwing owed and operated resorts managed under Blues Diamond brands and other resorts book through Sunwing Vacation, Signature Vacation, Selloff Vacation. Sunwing and TUI Group are very unique in their vertically integrated business.
I hope you are right. But I would not feel protected by vertically integrated. Look at Transat. Have you ever considered they could sever the airline from the tour operator to save costs?
And I won't even mention your asinine training department that cost the tour operator very big bucks for no reason. I am sure they want to dump that shit? (Oh I know things behind the scenes on the review of failure rates so the trainers get overtime. I slap your back, you slap mine).
I was at C3 and Skyservice. The Charter Market is cutthroat. Cheapest wins. Just when things are good for you, the bottom feeder slithers in and steals your food. Sunwing was a bottom feeder to Skyservice at the time. All I am saying is beware. I will not get into any arguments, just trying to raise awareness of the past history and focus on the future.
I hope you are right. But I would not feel protected by vertically integrated. Look at Transat. Have you ever considered they could sever the airline from the tour operator to save costs?
And I won't even mention your asinine training department that cost the tour operator very big bucks for no reason. I am sure they want to dump that shit? (Oh I know things behind the scenes on the review of failure rates so the trainers get overtime. I slap your back, you slap mine).
I was at C3 and Skyservice. The Charter Market is cutthroat. Cheapest wins. Just when things are good for you, the bottom feeder slithers in and steals your food. Sunwing was a bottom feeder to Skyservice at the time. All I am saying is beware. I will not get into any arguments, just trying to raise awareness of the past history and focus on the future.
The past is the past and you clearly have no idea what your talking about. PS - Transat is similar - but not the same. There are some pretty big differences. Thanks for your concern - be on your way....
I think it's a lot easier to book now and hope for the best. With the new cancellation policy, any trip cancelled 25 days or more before departure will receive a "Full refund in original form of payment." So, essentially there's no risk to booking a trip now when you can just cancel it later if COVID throws a wrinkle into the plan. All of these bookings could simply evaporate if things like the hotel quarantine isn't sorted out by the fall and winter.
That's why I believe that while vacation bookings are increasing, for now they're just "phantom" bookings just to secure a seat that may or may not be used... people can decide to cancel just as quick if things don't improve. They're only "real" bookings once the passengers are on on the hook for the money, whether they travel or not.
Of course - what you say has merit, but that is true of any airline these days. Remember the last town hall? You could hear a pin drop in the call center...we had nothing coming in. All of a sudden - what a week or two later - it was like someone turned on a light switch. The shots started going in arms and suddenly they were overwhelmed with calls and bookings. Yes - they could disappear just as fast - but I think everyone is seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, even if not everyone is vaccinated by Sept like our "beloved" leader says will happen, enough should be done that travel will not be an issue. As soon as the US border opens - that will be it.
Anything can happen - but I will bet good money that quite a bit will be happening by xmas, and we are (and should) be planning for it.
haironfire wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:37 pm
I will start by saying I have no vested interest in either party currently, but in the future who knows these days? I do not mean this in any negative way, only an observation from the cheap seats.
Our industry is very raw meat right now, and there is a lot of play going on in boardrooms (with masks on) feasting on other's wounds, or at least trying to. A big game play. There will be a lot of maneuvering, like a horse race.
I used to fly C-GMYH. Look it up. Skyservice Airlines flying Sunwing passengers. I know Mark Williams, since I had him in the jumpseat YYZ-CUN while his family was in the back. We talked the whole way, including during takeoff and landing. (Just kidding).. A very nice, energetic, smart business man. This will be above his level. ( BTW, I also had Fred Cromer, head of Bombardier Commercial at the time, in jumpseat for landing Bombardier 505 in YMX on 1st CSeries pax flight). Where is he now?
Who came first, the tour operator, or the airline? Who will go out last? It won't be the airline.
For all those Sunwing Airline Employees I would be very focused in the rearview mirror. Watch out for Flair, (and personally I think ONEX is sniffing around as well)? Flair ....... Currently expanding, ultra low cost, got all the sim time booked, current pilots, same type and brand new efficient planes.
They could slide right in under your feet.
I could be wrong, and I have many times with women, but not planes.
One thing to bare in mind also is that Sunwing borrowed from the government LEEFF program. One of conditions of this loan which is provided on the fact sheet is that companies seeking support must commit to minimizing the loss of employment and sustaining their domestic business activities, and must demonstrate that funding under LEEFF forms part of their overall plan to return to financial stability.
Dumping their airline and airline employees to use another company could have them breaching the terms and conditions of their loan agreement. That would be a costly oversight for them.
boeingboy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:04 pm
I'm not too worried. There will be a domestic program of some description. By the time June rolls around - there will be a lot more people vaccinated and I'm sure we will be up and running something. A lot of people right now are ignoring orders anyways so I think the traffic is definately there. Bookings for the winter are through the roof. Groups, weddings, and families. Management is putting the need for 35 - 40 planes this winter, while I believe the number will be more like 20-25. In any case - they are already talking to TUI again as the need will most likely exceed the core fleet of 14. We may be short a few crews by the start of the winter program - but everyone should be back by Xmas. We still need to reactivate part of the fleet and at least 1 is now down for a while needing repair. We are also still doing the farm contracts and some are running into the summer. All of that may have something to do with the delay in the summer program.
It's hard for any company to plan right now. Things are picking up but are still very fluid. You don't want to be caught with to few airplanes and you don't want too many.
If the US is any indication, when this all turns around it’ll turn around quickly. Sunny days ahead
Haironfire. Mark W was a skyservice employee until he brokered a deal for Skyservice to do sunwing flying on the 1 757 you speak of. RG wasn’t happy. He knew what was about to happen.
How was sunwing a bottom feeder? The reason sky no longer exists the model doesn’t work. To many hands in one basket with low margins. I was making more as a Sunwing pilot then Sky pilots when they went TU.
Flair is getting free sim but it’s in the USA. There’s tons of available 737ng/max sim available in Canada. Not an issue. Thank the closed borders. The flair pilot contract is pretty close to the cut we just took. No cost advantage.
If this summers a wash do you think flair will have 13 planes flying around empty? Do you think WJ/AC aren’t going to keep their customers? Tough hill to climb.
I see WG as a 20-30 plane fleet for winter with TUI/TS adding extra lift. If the hunters don’t want the airline it would have been shed a year ago.
PS your not the only one who’s had to climb out of a few carcasses...sadly.
Not a surprise....the domestic program is never very big and given that we are almost halfway through it already - there's not much point. The southern flight's start the end of July and continue through till the start of the winter program in Oct, with the TFW returns starting in Sept. Pilots have already been recalled and training is underway. Planes are being reactivated and imports are being planned. All 6 Max aircraft should be running the southern routes first, with the 2 newest aircraft flying since they were delivered in Feb, and the others going through their C checks and other heavy maintenance.
They are, but at a very reduced amount currently. The bulk of Sunwing's flying is in the winter, starting November. Expect them to have a fairly busy winter season, should there be few or no restrictions.
Yes we are.
Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon out of Toronto and Montreal to sun destinations, and we are adding new destionations ahead of schedual due to demand. Aircraft being imported for the winter, bookings way up and full flights. It does look to be a good winter season.
Not to mention we are right now, doing a lot of domestic charter work the last month or 2.
I hear and see WG flights out of the western bases finally. The YVR plane was at a gate today, not just mothballed on the international side, heard flights going into YYC last night. How are you guys doing? Seems like you are back flying. Hopefully some decent crew recall numbers.
co-joe wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:52 pm
I hear and see WG flights out of the western bases finally. The YVR plane was at a gate today, not just mothballed on the international side, heard flights going into YYC last night. How are you guys doing? Seems like you are back flying. Hopefully some decent crew recall numbers.
Things are starting to move. The latest recall I know was about #330 out of about 450 on the seniority list. I’m not sure the actual number of pilots recalled, there are people holding out at other jobs, waiting for the reduced mmg to go up, waiting to hold captain, unvaccinated, etc.
That's great news! It's especially encouraging to see western bases flying, not just the centre of the universe. WS is charging through the nose for vacation packages out here. People are ready to take a trip, I know I am.
