Transport Canada's Liability

[cyyz]

Quote:

" and then lots & lots of spot inspections with no warning. "

I would support that if we had inspectors free to do inspections without warning based on documented reason to believe there was a problem.

How do you guys "spot check" some one going below minimums on an approach..

[sky's the limit]

So YYZ,

Do you actually fly for a living? Because you're starting to make me believe you don't. And if you do, I don't EVER want to fly with you.

PIC does have final responsiblitiy, you're right. So, are you an AME? Do you have the time and expertise to open and look at ALL the moving parts before each flight? Are you an avionics expert? How much do you know about over stressed airframes? Didn't think so.

There is a system in place, and if that system doesn't function, the system being TC, the company Mngt, ATC, the AME's, and you the pilot, things get missed. And people die.

If TC enforced the laws that are already on the books, then we would all be in the same boat. Instead they skip over certain comanpies, and these things happen.

[cyyz]

There is a system in place, and if that system doesn't function, the system being TC, the company Mngt, ATC, the AME's, and you the pilot, things get missed. And people die.

So, are you an AME....

If TC enforced the laws that are already on the books, then we would all be in the same boat. Instead they skip over certain comanpies, and these things happen.

Like the Quebec flight school that got a ticket/fine for operating a foreign aircraft... Yes, big safety concern...

If TC went to place A. and they'd have their logs("books") in pencil the OC gets pulled, if TC goes to place b and the logs say "engine reinstalled" or whatever in pen they'd walk out with smiles, and the pilot would be flying around in a multi with 1 engine.

Like someone stated not flying with a current CFS, our flight school didn't even have CFS's it was the instructors problem to have them and they'd tell their students to have a current one, lol, the smart students, wouldn't bother because they're not PIC, if something went wrong guess who would be in trouble... Guess how many times TC stopped in to see if anyone had a current CFS, never, except for their annual inspection, the school got themselves CFS's for that.

"something got missed" so the AME's are liars and are signing off aircrafts that aren't "safe?" Again, how does TC help me in that case, I'm stuck flying a plane that says "inspected and certified by MXXXXXX" so I'm leaving it in their hands, so now we're blaming the techs???

And as soon as the plane crashes, you have numerous guys here stating, "oh everyone knew they were making false entries." well what is it, does the PIC know what's going on in his company or doesn't he. And if he does, he shouldn't be flying and waiting for tc to check the books which are "OK." And if he is ignorant of his surrondings, well what can you do.

[Walker]

Ok CYYZ, you’v sold me, so tell ya what son this is your homework: re write all sections of the CARS to your specifications; compile a report explaining your changes and how you plan to have these changes implemented. Then make a speech for parliament explaining your policy amendments and your justification, as well as explaining how you, being a single person have created a superior system to what several millions of man hrs could not accomplish in the old TC. Then explain how we should restructure TC, or rather TCYYZ being sure to outline the new structure and operation of everything from HR, to Enforcement, to payroll, to federal liability.
Then we need an economic analysis of how these changes will effect the economy, on both the micro and macro scales… and be sure to take this beyond one or two dimensions, we will need to know how these changes in regs will effect everything, right down the change in margins that the local coffee shop will experience.


Oh and on the topic of collusion and oil companies….

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/inte ... =1946&lg=e

Yes In fact they HAVE been hit a FEW times, most recently there was an investigation in September (see above)
It is a rather complex topic, but if you would like MORE information on collusion and illegal business practices Id be more than happy to have a sit down discussion, im writing a dissertation on the subject of industrial organization & public policy this semester…

[Cat Driver]

I marvel at the depth of ignorance that is so prevelant in many who post here on Avcanada.

No wonder the industry is so disfunctional.

Give me about a dozen of the older guys that understand how the system works and using the prevailing laws we would clean up one hell of a lot of unsafe operations in the Canadian air service business.

However we would need protection from the entrenched power brokers in Ottawa and free reign to enforce the law, something that the powers in top management of TCCA have not and will not do for political reasons.

And may I add we would not be taking chicken shit actions against weak targets just for window dressing.

Cat

[cyyz]

Then explain how we should restructure TC, or rather TCYYZ being sure to outline the new structure and operation of everything from HR, to Enforcement, to payroll, to federal liability

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/inte ... =1946&lg=e

Yes In fact they HAVE been hit a FEW times, most recently there was an investigation in September (see above)
It is a rather complex topic, but if you would like MORE information on collusion and illegal business practices Id be more than happy to have a sit down discussion, im writing a dissertation on the subject of industrial organization & public policy this semester…

OPEC? Maybe you've heard of them?

I want to stress that should the Competition Bureau obtain any evidence of conduct contrary to the Competition Act, we will not hesitate to take appropriate action.

But they never will, but oh well.. Whatever....

back on TC, you think CID is here to "promote" TC or save his pension?

Re-write CARS? Why would I need to do that? I said we eliminate TC.

The sign on the road says drive 60 but people are going 80 and 40.... Laws say no murder, people are killing each other...

Pointless to have rules that tell operators to have "nice clean books" when it doesn't save anyone from crashing when the books are cooked.

Just let nature run its course

PS. or Cat's Mafia, gestapo tactics would work well too.. =)

[CID]

Don't be silly, You don't have cars flying off cliffs, do you?? I don't see any regulatory board doing anything about cars.

Flying off cliffs? Not so much. But there are sure alot of accidents every day. I don't know if its a valid comparison since the vast majority of people travelling in cars aren't paying for a ticket.

As you are aware, regulations are much more stringent for commercial operations since the public demands a higher level of safety if they are paying.

Get rid of the "CARS"? So just forget about standards for design, maintenance and operation of airplanes? Just let everyone do what they think is right?

So what airplane would you buy in such a world?

This line of thinking is so sensationally stupid, I can't believe its anything more than a trolling attempt.

[sky's the limit]

YYZ

A wise person once told me, "when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging."

I think you could benefit from that advice.

You obviously are young and inexperieced in the industry, and life, so I won't go too hard you. But for your own benefit, I think you need to stop posting on things of which you obviously have no idea.

STL

[Walker]

Ooooooo… Should I?!?!? Shouldn’t I….. Ooooooooooo @#$! IT!

Ok, its off topic and perhaps a bit harsh but man, you opened yourself up for this… (no hard feelings what is said in a thread stays in the thread….)

Reasons why conservatives would be a bad choice when it comes to foreign relations:

OPEC Nations:

Algeria
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Kuwait
Libya
Nigeria
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
UAE
Venezuela

Hummmmm….. Where did Canada go? Oh wait a minute OPEC (Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries) Countries???? Hummmm… I guess that means we are talking about nation states and not private firms, as in not the private firms which “The Competition Act” is meant to govern… OK….
Well then irregardless, what is OPEC really? Well class OPEC is what is commonly referred to as a cartel. (YYZ raises his hand) “well sir, what IS a cartel?“ Well YYZ a cartel is when an oligopoly (a small group of independents) comes together and decides to operate as if they were a monopoly…. (YYZ raises his hand again) “Sir, how would they do that?” Well son without having to draw a nice fancy graph, essentially they all decide on a quota of the amount of product that they will each produce. By reducing the supply of a good in an economy generally the market reaction is an increase in price, and in the case of a market moving from a state of perfect competition or Oligopolistic competition to that of monopolistic competition, there will be an increase of producer surplus. (YYZ asks): “What is Producer Surplus?” Producer surplus in this case is the marginal increase in profit that a producer will gain vs the level of profit at which they would still be willing to continue to produce at… (YYZ pouts….) “Im sorry sir that is too complicated for me to understand, can you explain it more clearly?” No, I cannot…. But cum see me after class and ill give you a “special” tutorial….


NOTE: Cartels are unstable creations and time has proven that they are not effective, there is always a cheater who will in their own self interest produce MORE of a good than the cartel has stipulated. This will increase the cheating firms profit, at the expense of the other cartel members… when others find out, they readjust to compensate, start competing with one another and boom, back where we started… The cost of enforcement of a cartel is almost always more than the benefit yielded from the cartel to begin with… IE Iraq, Iran, and Kuwait all started to overproduce, they hid their increased production from OPEC, and started to steal profit from their “friends.” It took a while but eventually others caught on, and well… ta da, OPEC DRAMA!!!!!!! Which has been on and off for a long time…
Furthermore, OPEC is NOT the whole market for producers, IE CANADA! we are NOT (ass yyz would like to think) an OPEC member, we sell at the world price; much to the shagrin of OPEC…

Now I was ALSO going to draw some nice fancy graphs explaining all this AND write a 2 or 3 page response on why collusion or in a larger sense a Cartel for flight training and el cheepo cargo/passenger services would never work here in Canada, but from reading the rest of the other posts I think it would be a total waste of time, because I Can’t imagine even YOU think it would work, rather I am truly hoping this was just an exercise in mental masturbation, in which case thank you very much I had a good time, no hard feelings… but now im off to the pub to get a drink, watch the election and hook up with a hot socialist hippy chick [much more fun to debate with]… (no in fact hippy and hot are not oxymoronic…)

The Professor

[cyyz]

Oh wait a minute OPEC (Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries) Countries???? Hummmm… I guess that means we are talking about nation states and not private firms, as in not the private firms which “The Competition Act” is meant to govern… OK

Well YYZ a cartel is when an oligopoly (a small group of independents) comes together and decides to operate as if they were a monopoly…. (YYZ raises his hand again) “Sir, how would they do that?” Well son without having to draw a nice fancy graph, essentially they all decide on a quota of the amount of product that they will each produce. By reducing the supply of a good in an economy generally the market reaction is an increase in price, and in the case of a market moving from a state of perfect competition or Oligopolistic competition to that of monopolistic competition, there will be an increase of producer surplus. (YYZ asks):

Now I was ALSO going to draw some nice fancy graphs explaining all this AND write a 2 or 3 page response on why collusion or in a larger sense a Cartel for flight training and el cheepo cargo/passenger services would never work here in Canada, but from reading the rest of the other posts I think it would be a total waste of time, because I Can’t imagine even YOU think it would work,

So we let it happen at a global scale, and what is Exxon and Shell and Suncor? They're Global firms....

Funny how all the firms were saying, "prices went up cause of Katrina," funny how Petro Canada, had zero assets in LA...

As for creating a cartel to Flight Training, that I never did say, they can undermine each other as much as they want..

As for Cargo bidders and passanger airlines, yep, it sure would work,

Milton - "hey Bed, raise your price by $100 and I'll do the same"
Bed - "okay"

- both airlines have just created $100 extra profit per seat.. Wow, not that hard...
They just help each other out and when a Jetsgo competitor comes by, they just slam prices down low and kill the competition and bring back their prices... Oh, and they can blame it on Katrina...

[Walker]

No I really think your fishing…..

You obviously have some interest in this topic, and I have to admit that is nice to see…. However there Is a lot of background information that you are missing. If you have the time I suggest you sign up for some intro classes in microeconomics and macroeconomics, Im sure one of the local colleges near you has some night classes, or feel free to take some at athabasca online @ http://www.athabascau.ca/.

Katrina….
Here is a crash course as to why we had an increase in price…
Let us examine the market for oil… for all intensive purposes oil is oil, there is very little market differentiation between one producers brand of oil and another brand…

As the available supply of a good decreases, (and people get less access to a good) those individuals that receive a higher utility from that good are willing to pay a higher price. IE a petrochemical plant that produces plastic is likely to be willing to pay a bit more for oil so the plant can stay open and operational, than someone who works in the city who can just take the bus instead of drive 10 min. Basically put; as you decrease the amount of a good available the price of said good goes up. Conversely, if someone discovered that you can make diamonds by placing bits of coal up the rectum of a conservative, then the market supply of diamonds would be greatly increased. AND as a result of there being SO many diamonds around, peoples marginal utility (IE happiness gained by the ownership of one additional diamond) would eventually fall, and the present market for diamonds would eventually collapse because you could get a bag full of smelly diamonds from a street vendor for $8.

SO to get back to oil, the available WORLD supply was decreased. So THIS class meant…………(YYZ shouts) “THE PRICE WOULD GO UP SIR!!” That’s right YYZ, the price would go up, because people were WILLING to pay for it. And all firms are profit maximizing, so If I as the person who sets the selling price of oil for a company, and If I see that we are still able to sell oil at a price 20 cents higher than yesterday, why would I not comply? All of my competitors are going to set their price to what the market will yield and it would be stupid of me to not comply…. IE we see what Adam Smith coined as “the invisible hand” setting market price independent of other firms… IE NO ONE person/firm sets the market price (RIDER) people set the price to what is most profitable; and through the process of wanting to be profitable AND competing with other firms in said market, the world price of a good is eventually found. NOW the Rider on that is if we are looking at a market that is perfectly competitive, (which for the sake of argument almost NEVER happens in the REAL world, but the inferences still hold true in a great many areas of the economy, OIL, Power, Internet hosting being prime examples…) As long as there are enough firms out there producing AND competing market price is set to a level that is the BEST for the overall health of the economy, IE there is NO loss to society as a result of overly inflated prices, and there is no risk of prices going to low, because a “reasonable” firm would not set their prices below their costs.


NOW your suggestion that we have collusion (IE Milton/Bed having a “chat”) is NOT good for the overall health of the economy, it IS good (in the short run) for the airline; however that is at the COST of the citizenry, IE the public picks up the bill for your monopolistic profit… This is exactly what happened in the US steel industry. All the steel big-wigs used to have supper at the president of the now defunct “US Steel Company.” The pres of US steel would say at the dinner table, SO I think that US Steel will be selling cold rolled rods for $8.70 a unit this month, and wow, magic that was the price that ALL steel foundries charged at. But wait! What has happened! The industry changed, foreign steel started being produced, smaller mini mills were being opened in the states, and eventually big steel started competing because of the shrinking market share, then over the course of one year close to 80% of the steel workers in the US were unemployed…

This is THE reason we have laws such as those that FORBID the practice that you are suggesting, at first glance it may seem like a good idea, but time and time again it has been shown to be more detrimental to an industry as a whole; and it IS detrimental to the public, IE who the government is trying to protect. Perfect competition has proven its self to be more efficient at the allocation of resources than what you are suggesting in 98% of the cases. Aviation is NOT an exception to that rule. The SOLUTION to the safety problem is to regulate how an AC in maintained, how it is operated and who flys it. This added cost will become (and is part) of the cost that a firm must pay for, therefore they being a “reasonable” firm will set prices where they can best make profit (a function of price and volume.) and well it works! MOST of the operators in Canada ARE reasonably well put together; there will always be the few black sheeps that push the envelope, but that too will rectify itself over time by other companies not wanting to do business, blacklisting workers etc.. And eventually TC will catch on, and nail them for something (sadly the fact is quite often because of the complexity of the industry they wont know enough until there has been an accident, but we all of us live with the fact that we are not in a totally 100% safe occupation.

NOW if you think taking TC out of the equation and letting firms collude, will make a safer more efficient industry I would very much like to hear your reasoning…… really, please do explain how such an animal should work…

-Proff