AME shortage?

[SeptRepair]

I was in the lower mainland a couple days ago doing some running around with a buddy stopping in at various helicopter companies. One place the owner was expressing his concern with the lack of being able to find a good licensed structures guy. My buddy knowing I'm a licensed structures guy, threw me under the bus saying "hey he is one!" Immediately I had a job offer. lol. Im not looking, but the conversation went on about apparently all the schools who offer structures courses have stopped running the program? This guy was adamant that BCIT, SAIT and a couple others don't offer it currently. I checked the only local school here on the island and it has a TBD date on the next course. You guys out there hearing the same thing?
Anyways, No sooner do I get home and ironically my email starts filling up with contract agencies looking for structures guys. The going rate currently, for a licensed guy is 45/hr. Keep in mind this is for east coast work, and the travel and accommodation is severely lacking in terms of compensation. Couple months back it was insulting at 32/hr. If this guy I was talking too is correct, then there is going to be a severe shortage of licensed S guys soon. I know M1&M2 combined give you the privilege of signing out S work if you can demonstrate competency in the eyes of transport, but it doesn't give you the actual skill to do the work. I would hate to be a company owner the next little while if I'm trying to attract good talent.

[digits_]

I was in the lower mainland a couple days ago doing some running around with a buddy stopping in at various helicopter companies. One place the owner was expressing his concern with the lack of being able to find a good licensed structures guy. My buddy knowing I'm a licensed structures guy, threw me under the bus saying "hey he is one!" Immediately I had a job offer. lol. Im not looking, but the conversation went on about apparently all the schools who offer structures courses have stopped running the program? This guy was adamant that BCIT, SAIT and a couple others don't offer it currently. I checked the only local school here on the island and it has a TBD date on the next course. You guys out there hearing the same thing?
Anyways, No sooner do I get home and ironically my email starts filling up with contract agencies looking for structures guys. The going rate currently, for a licensed guy is 45/hr. Keep in mind this is for east coast work, and the travel and accommodation is severely lacking in terms of compensation. Couple months back it was insulting at 32/hr. If this guy I was talking too is correct, then there is going to be a severe shortage of licensed S guys soon. I know M1&M2 combined give you the privilege of signing out S work if you can demonstrate competency in the eyes of transport, but it doesn't give you the actual skill to do the work. I would hate to be a company owner the next little while if I'm trying to attract good talent.

The rumour was that 5 years ago there were only 2 avionics AMEs in Manitoba. Seems like every so many years a certain type of AME seems to disappear from the market in a certain province.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I was in the lower mainland a couple days ago doing some running around with a buddy stopping in at various helicopter companies. One place the owner was expressing his concern with the lack of being able to find a good licensed structures guy. My buddy knowing I'm a licensed structures guy, threw me under the bus saying "hey he is one!" Immediately I had a job offer. lol. Im not looking, but the conversation went on about apparently all the schools who offer structures courses have stopped running the program? This guy was adamant that BCIT, SAIT and a couple others don't offer it currently. I checked the only local school here on the island and it has a TBD date on the next course. You guys out there hearing the same thing?
Anyways, No sooner do I get home and ironically my email starts filling up with contract agencies looking for structures guys. The going rate currently, for a licensed guy is 45/hr. Keep in mind this is for east coast work, and the travel and accommodation is severely lacking in terms of compensation. Couple months back it was insulting at 32/hr. If this guy I was talking too is correct, then there is going to be a severe shortage of licensed S guys soon. I know M1&M2 combined give you the privilege of signing out S work if you can demonstrate competency in the eyes of transport, but it doesn't give you the actual skill to do the work. I would hate to be a company owner the next little while if I'm trying to attract good talent.

Supply and demand. No work equates to no demand which eventually causes a drought in new personnel. Attendance numbers for the M E and S programs have been down for upwards of 10 years now. I’m not surprised to hear about the S program you’ve cited, you can’t run a class with 2 students.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I was in the lower mainland a couple days ago doing some running around with a buddy stopping in at various helicopter companies. One place the owner was expressing his concern with the lack of being able to find a good licensed structures guy. My buddy knowing I'm a licensed structures guy, threw me under the bus saying "hey he is one!" Immediately I had a job offer. lol. Im not looking, but the conversation went on about apparently all the schools who offer structures courses have stopped running the program? This guy was adamant that BCIT, SAIT and a couple others don't offer it currently. I checked the only local school here on the island and it has a TBD date on the next course. You guys out there hearing the same thing?
Anyways, No sooner do I get home and ironically my email starts filling up with contract agencies looking for structures guys. The going rate currently, for a licensed guy is 45/hr. Keep in mind this is for east coast work, and the travel and accommodation is severely lacking in terms of compensation. Couple months back it was insulting at 32/hr. If this guy I was talking too is correct, then there is going to be a severe shortage of licensed S guys soon. I know M1&M2 combined give you the privilege of signing out S work if you can demonstrate competency in the eyes of transport, but it doesn't give you the actual skill to do the work. I would hate to be a company owner the next little while if I'm trying to attract good talent.

$45/hr is grossly low let along 32, industry has only to look at themselves for the lack of licenses willing to work. There’s tons of guys out there, just won’t work for that garbage rate.

[PitchLink]

I was in the lower mainland a couple days ago doing some running around with a buddy stopping in at various helicopter companies. One place the owner was expressing his concern with the lack of being able to find a good licensed structures guy. My buddy knowing I'm a licensed structures guy, threw me under the bus saying "hey he is one!" Immediately I had a job offer. lol. Im not looking, but the conversation went on about apparently all the schools who offer structures courses have stopped running the program? This guy was adamant that BCIT, SAIT and a couple others don't offer it currently. I checked the only local school here on the island and it has a TBD date on the next course. You guys out there hearing the same thing?
Anyways, No sooner do I get home and ironically my email starts filling up with contract agencies looking for structures guys. The going rate currently, for a licensed guy is 45/hr. Keep in mind this is for east coast work, and the travel and accommodation is severely lacking in terms of compensation. Couple months back it was insulting at 32/hr. If this guy I was talking too is correct, then there is going to be a severe shortage of licensed S guys soon. I know M1&M2 combined give you the privilege of signing out S work if you can demonstrate competency in the eyes of transport, but it doesn't give you the actual skill to do the work. I would hate to be a company owner the next little while if I'm trying to attract good talent.

Proving competency for S or E privileges requires the basic training requirements if I’m not mistaken plus a filled logbook for said additional rating. I could be wrong it’s been a while since I’ve looked at that.

[helicopterray]

If you have an M1 and M2, you automatically are covered for all AME tasks. There are no further endorsements that you need for S or E.
An AMO, however, will have to prove you are qualified to perform structures or Avionics work for them.

[PitchLink]

If you have an M1 and M2, you automatically are covered for all AME tasks. There are no further endorsements that you need for S or E.
An AMO, however, will have to prove you are qualified to perform structures or Avionics work for them.

Yes you can only have two ratings on your license, the last I looked into this you can sign for all NON specialized E and S work and that is where it gets muddy. If memory serves the definitions in the cars of specialty maintenance for different departments (E&S) are pretty lengthy and specific. There is also the training requirements that need to be met where aforementioned you are “qualified” to do the work. This discussion many moons ago when I looked into it equates to you needing the schooling and the training “12 months per additional rating”. Again that’s for SPECIALIZED E&S work. I’ll have to revisit this and get back to this thread. Non specialized E & S is further covered in most manufacturer’s CH 20, it’s a bit of a red herring especially in the helicopter world.

[rigpiggy]

I just heard an ad on the radio for auto mechanics at a major dealership. Licensed start at $35/hr. Meh.

Depends on where, the wages I’ve seen have a huge margin across the board. I also saw an add for a multi endorsed M1/M2 AME for a helicopter operator this spring for $200/day….

200/12 16.66/hr huge pay.........

[PitchLink]

I just heard an ad on the radio for auto mechanics at a major dealership. Licensed start at $35/hr. Meh.

Depends on where, the wages I’ve seen have a huge margin across the board. I also saw an add for a multi endorsed M1/M2 AME for a helicopter operator this spring for $200/day….

200/12 16.66/hr huge pay.........

It’s disgusting dude

[SeptRepair]

If you have an M1 and M2, you automatically are covered for all AME tasks. There are no further endorsements that you need for S or E.
An AMO, however, will have to prove you are qualified to perform structures or Avionics work for them.

I guess that is the kicker here, the AMO which has the Structures rating needs to have that skilled person regardless if anybody has an S license. I looked into the situation a bit further ( emailed the school) and the reason the Structures programs are not currently available is due to lack of interest and enrollments numbers. Cant blame people really for not wanting to take the course to only come out and start at 17/hr.
As for the M programs, I also looked into the numbers at BCIT and they have information that pretty much cements the idea of why getting into aircraft maintenance is a lost cause. https://www.bcit.ca/files/ir/gp/1010dipma.pdf In summary, with just over half of the total number of students who bothered to take the survey the consensus was you can expect to make 20/hr to start as a fresh apprentice. These numbers are for the 2017,2018, and 2019 years. I couldn't imagine what the 2020, 2021 numbers are going to look like!!
To keep life in perspective, my daughter this summer, age 16, worked as a waitress and was grossing 400/day including tips on an 8 hr shift!! I had the conversation with her how the money she is making is not a norm, that you need an education to make that in the real world. She fortunately believes me and is still focused on post secondary education ( Wants to be an airline pilot . FML), but deep down i feel like telling her @#$! schooling and keep waitressing till your 40. It has taken dad 35 years in the aircraft industry to make that kind of money.

[PitchLink]

If you have an M1 and M2, you automatically are covered for all AME tasks. There are no further endorsements that you need for S or E.
An AMO, however, will have to prove you are qualified to perform structures or Avionics work for them.

I guess that is the kicker here, the AMO which has the Structures rating needs to have that skilled person regardless if anybody has an S license. I looked into the situation a bit further ( emailed the school) and the reason the Structures programs are not currently available is due to lack of interest and enrollments numbers. Cant blame people really for not wanting to take the course to only come out and start at 17/hr.
As for the M programs, I also looked into the numbers at BCIT and they have information that pretty much cements the idea of why getting into aircraft maintenance is a lost cause. https://www.bcit.ca/files/ir/gp/1010dipma.pdf In summary, with just over half of the total number of students who bothered to take the survey the consensus was you can expect to make 20/hr to start as a fresh apprentice. These numbers are for the 2017,2018, and 2019 years. I couldn't imagine what the 2020, 2021 numbers are going to look like!!
To keep life in perspective, my daughter this summer, age 16, worked as a waitress and was grossing 400/day including tips on an 8 hr shift!! I had the conversation with her how the money she is making is not a norm, that you need an education to make that in the real world. She fortunately believes me and is still focused on post secondary education ( Wants to be an airline pilot . FML), but deep down i feel like telling her @#$! schooling and keep waitressing till your 40. It has taken dad 35 years in the aircraft industry to make that kind of money.

Pretty sad isn’t it….

[hithere]

Yet if you look at the survey, despite the low pay rate people seem happy with the program and work they are doing upon graduation....
Very similar to pilots who, despite having paid, on average, at least 4X the cost for their licences, still agree to start off instructing or up north throwing bags for minimum wage. AME graduates make more money than pilot graduates until at least a pilot's first Captaincy at a regional. That sometimes takes 4-6 years from Commercial pilot licence graduation and AMEs do not have nearly the amount of student debt that pilots do

[PitchLink]

Yet if you look at the survey, despite the low pay rate people seem happy with the program and work they are doing upon graduation....
Very similar to pilots who, despite having paid, on average, at least 4X the cost for their licences, still agree to start off instructing or up north throwing bags for minimum wage. AME graduates make more money than pilot graduates until at least a pilot's first Captaincy at a regional. That sometimes takes 4-6 years from Commercial pilot licence graduation and AMEs do not have nearly the amount of student debt that pilots do

Depending on where and what you go to fly and fix. Pilots have the initial cost of the license (bout 100k give or take) but they don’t have to continually buy tools the rest of their career, it doesn’t take long to have $60k in tools from graduation which is also an investment in an ame’s career. I guess the helmet and iPads do need to be replaced often enough in rotary. Idk they’re both expensive enough for initial cost and paying dues for crap wages.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I'm surprised any AME is still working in the industry with the kind of schedule most of them have...

It’s bad, lots only doing enough to stay current in Canada…

[chowda]

If you have an M1 and M2, you automatically are covered for all AME tasks. There are no further endorsements that you need for S or E.
An AMO, however, will have to prove you are qualified to perform structures or Avionics work for them.

I guess that is the kicker here, the AMO which has the Structures rating needs to have that skilled person regardless if anybody has an S license. I looked into the situation a bit further ( emailed the school) and the reason the Structures programs are not currently available is due to lack of interest and enrollments numbers. Cant blame people really for not wanting to take the course to only come out and start at 17/hr.
As for the M programs, I also looked into the numbers at BCIT and they have information that pretty much cements the idea of why getting into aircraft maintenance is a lost cause. https://www.bcit.ca/files/ir/gp/1010dipma.pdf In summary, with just over half of the total number of students who bothered to take the survey the consensus was you can expect to make 20/hr to start as a fresh apprentice. These numbers are for the 2017,2018, and 2019 years. I couldn't imagine what the 2020, 2021 numbers are going to look like!!
To keep life in perspective, my daughter this summer, age 16, worked as a waitress and was grossing 400/day including tips on an 8 hr shift!! I had the conversation with her how the money she is making is not a norm, that you need an education to make that in the real world. She fortunately believes me and is still focused on post secondary education ( Wants to be an airline pilot . FML), but deep down i feel like telling her @#$! schooling and keep waitressing till your 40. It has taken dad 35 years in the aircraft industry to make that kind of money.

I see many of the common fast food franchises advertising on their sign boards "FT $17.50 an hour" in Kelowna. They still cant find bodies.

[newlygrounded]

Yet if you look at the survey, despite the low pay rate people seem happy with the program and work they are doing upon graduation....
Very similar to pilots who, despite having paid, on average, at least 4X the cost for their licences, still agree to start off instructing or up north throwing bags for minimum wage. AME graduates make more money than pilot graduates until at least a pilot's first Captaincy at a regional. That sometimes takes 4-6 years from Commercial pilot licence graduation and AMEs do not have nearly the amount of student debt that pilots do

Depending on where and what you go to fly and fix. Pilots have the initial cost of the license (bout 100k give or take) but they don’t have to continually buy tools the rest of their career, it doesn’t take long to have $60k in tools from graduation which is also an investment in an ame’s career. I guess the helmet and iPads do need to be replaced often enough in rotary. Idk they’re both expensive enough for initial cost and paying dues for crap wages.

Honestly the lost wages during your first 5+ years as a pilot cost a lot more than most people are willing to admit

[PitchLink]

Yet if you look at the survey, despite the low pay rate people seem happy with the program and work they are doing upon graduation....
Very similar to pilots who, despite having paid, on average, at least 4X the cost for their licences, still agree to start off instructing or up north throwing bags for minimum wage. AME graduates make more money than pilot graduates until at least a pilot's first Captaincy at a regional. That sometimes takes 4-6 years from Commercial pilot licence graduation and AMEs do not have nearly the amount of student debt that pilots do

Depending on where and what you go to fly and fix. Pilots have the initial cost of the license (bout 100k give or take) but they don’t have to continually buy tools the rest of their career, it doesn’t take long to have $60k in tools from graduation which is also an investment in an ame’s career. I guess the helmet and iPads do need to be replaced often enough in rotary. Idk they’re both expensive enough for initial cost and paying dues for crap wages.

Honestly the lost wages during your first 5+ years as a pilot cost a lot more than most people are willing to admit

I fully acknowledge it. It’s criminal, I don’t know how owners can look themselves in the mirror, they probably don’t have a reflection anyways.

[chowda]

If you have an M1 and M2, you automatically are covered for all AME tasks. There are no further endorsements that you need for S or E.
An AMO, however, will have to prove you are qualified to perform structures or Avionics work for them.

I guess that is the kicker here, the AMO which has the Structures rating needs to have that skilled person regardless if anybody has an S license. I looked into the situation a bit further ( emailed the school) and the reason the Structures programs are not currently available is due to lack of interest and enrollments numbers. Cant blame people really for not wanting to take the course to only come out and start at 17/hr.
As for the M programs, I also looked into the numbers at BCIT and they have information that pretty much cements the idea of why getting into aircraft maintenance is a lost cause. https://www.bcit.ca/files/ir/gp/1010dipma.pdf In summary, with just over half of the total number of students who bothered to take the survey the consensus was you can expect to make 20/hr to start as a fresh apprentice. These numbers are for the 2017,2018, and 2019 years. I couldn't imagine what the 2020, 2021 numbers are going to look like!!
To keep life in perspective, my daughter this summer, age 16, worked as a waitress and was grossing 400/day including tips on an 8 hr shift!! I had the conversation with her how the money she is making is not a norm, that you need an education to make that in the real world. She fortunately believes me and is still focused on post secondary education ( Wants to be an airline pilot . FML), but deep down i feel like telling her @#$! schooling and keep waitressing till your 40. It has taken dad 35 years in the aircraft industry to make that kind of money.

I see many of the common fast food franchises advertising on their sign boards "FT $17.50 an hour" in Kelowna. They still cant find bodies.

*UPDATE* - just drove by one of the mentioned franchises, and they're now offering a $300 signing bonus.

This is what entry level aviation is competing with and they're basically on par, if you dismiss the tuition debt and tool expenses apprentices are saddled with.

Pathetic industry.

[PitchLink]

I guess that is the kicker here, the AMO which has the Structures rating needs to have that skilled person regardless if anybody has an S license. I looked into the situation a bit further ( emailed the school) and the reason the Structures programs are not currently available is due to lack of interest and enrollments numbers. Cant blame people really for not wanting to take the course to only come out and start at 17/hr.
As for the M programs, I also looked into the numbers at BCIT and they have information that pretty much cements the idea of why getting into aircraft maintenance is a lost cause. https://www.bcit.ca/files/ir/gp/1010dipma.pdf In summary, with just over half of the total number of students who bothered to take the survey the consensus was you can expect to make 20/hr to start as a fresh apprentice. These numbers are for the 2017,2018, and 2019 years. I couldn't imagine what the 2020, 2021 numbers are going to look like!!
To keep life in perspective, my daughter this summer, age 16, worked as a waitress and was grossing 400/day including tips on an 8 hr shift!! I had the conversation with her how the money she is making is not a norm, that you need an education to make that in the real world. She fortunately believes me and is still focused on post secondary education ( Wants to be an airline pilot . FML), but deep down i feel like telling her @#$! schooling and keep waitressing till your 40. It has taken dad 35 years in the aircraft industry to make that kind of money.

I see many of the common fast food franchises advertising on their sign boards "FT $17.50 an hour" in Kelowna. They still cant find bodies.

*UPDATE* - just drove by one of the mentioned franchises, and they're now offering a $300 signing bonus.

This is what entry level aviation is competing with and they're basically on par, if you dismiss the tuition debt and tool expenses apprentices are saddled with.

Pathetic industry.

About ten years ago and prior great slave and Canadian used to offer a 5-10k signing bonus just to fly or fix their aircraft for the summer. Those daily rates from them to now haven’t increased, they’ve actually decreased ffs, oh ya, no more signing bonus’. +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol

[chowda]

" +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

" +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.

They’re aerocucks lol, they watch their bottom feeding behaviour and rates f$ck the rest of us!

[digits_]

" +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.

A travelling AME is a great business model. A decent one will likely make much more than most AMEs on avcanada.

[Crossthreaded]

" +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.

A travelling AME is a great business model. A decent one will likely make much more than most AMEs on avcanada.

There’s a difference between a travelling AME and a guy living out of a van down by the river!

[chowda]

Exactly, but that reply is typical of the ones who defend this business. Those of us who want to live as a part of society are doing it wrong, as he implies.

I guess $35 a hr is lottery money when you're not paying rent/mortgage showering in truck stops, and shitting in a bucket down by the river.

Yeah, Im missing out

[Crossthreaded]

" +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.

Wtf is this normal? Is this guy in southern Ontario?!?