Flow through to AC

[rudder]

Ahhh...the ole' Encore--->Westjet flow three-card monte trick.

Can you imagine if AC pulled the same bullshit WS has been fleecing Encore pilots with? Would anyone go to Jazz at current pay rates if not for the PML?

Bingo.

[flyingcanuck]

Ahhh...the ole' Encore--->Westjet flow three-card monte trick.

Can you imagine if AC pulled the same bullshit WS has been fleecing Encore pilots with? Would anyone go to Jazz at current pay rates if not for the PML?

Honestly If this happened it wouldn't be good for jazz. Almost everyone I fly with is fed up with the pay situation. My guess is most are just trying to get to AC but if they were told they were stuck for 5+ years, maybe then they would be more vocal.

[kiaszceski]

I'm hearing AC and Jazz are looking into removing the minimum 60% flow because of the Jazz staffing issue.
How true is this?
How will Jazz be able to hire if the carrot is no more?

[flyingcanuck]

I'm hearing AC and Jazz are looking into removing the minimum 60% flow because of the Jazz staffing issue.
How true is this?
How will Jazz be able to hire if the carrot is no more?

I'd be surprised due to that is one of the big reasons the stupid 15 year-low-pay contact passed. Alot of people would either leave or put alot of effort into our pay situation. My 2c anyways.

[link821]

I feel like removing the only thing that most of us are here for would have an even worse effect on the staffing issue. If anything, I feel like they need to bring back PML1 or something like that, where a jazz pilot brings their years of service over to AC if hired. That’s probably to logical though..

[indieadventurer]

Jazz pilots never brought over years of service on PML 1 to Air Canada.

Jazz paid the difference between what the pilots were earning and the starting pay at Air Canada.

Every pilot that went over went BOTL.

[kiaszceski]

Another rumor heard, JZA MEC is “telling” their members to apply to WestJet because AC won’t honor flow…
I guess communication might be helpful…

[DanWEC]

I love rumors. In the last week I have heard literally 2 completely, polar opposite versions of upcoming groundschools at AC regarding the proportion of Jazz flows. One is that upcoming will be 100% Jazz, the other is that it will be 100% OTS. Both sworn to be true. Moral is, I just saved a ton on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

[hoewad]

How come there has been zero Jazz pilots in the last two New Hire classes at AC?

Quota = 60% per annum not 60% per PIT course.

Hey rudder, newbie here, I heard some talks about how AC is taking 60% from APLA now instead of jazz, is that true?

[KenoraPilot]

How come there has been zero Jazz pilots in the last two New Hire classes at AC?

Quota = 60% per annum not 60% per PIT course.

Hey rudder, newbie here, I heard some talks about how AC is taking 60% from APLA now instead of jazz, is that true?

The 60% annually from Jazz is written into the Jazz ALPA Collective Agreement, to change/cancel that would be a "request" from Jazz ALPA which in turn would give "leverage" to ask for something. They can't just "change it" without a conversation with Jazz MEC. If AC doesn't fulfill the 60% annually it goes to grievance and from there depending on their response arbitration etc.

[Boeingman]

I heard AC is negotiating a lower percentage of flow for Jazz to AC to not canabilize the express flying

[the-minister31]

I heard AC is negotiating a lower percentage of flow for Jazz to AC to not canabilize the express flying

The big question is: what would Jazz pilots get in exchange?

[Babar350]

I heard AC is negotiating a lower percentage of flow for Jazz to AC to not canabilize the express flying

The big question is: what would Jazz pilots get in exchange?

The bigger question is what if Jazz pilots gets nothing in exchange? Grievance? That could take years?

[Outlaw58]

I heard AC is negotiating a lower percentage of flow for Jazz to AC to not canabilize the express flying

The big question is: what would Jazz pilots get in exchange?

The bigger question is what if Jazz pilots gets nothing in exchange? Grievance? That could take years?

The even bigger question is: what if reducing the 60% flow is not even being discussed and anyone suggesting it is just going fishing?

58

[the-minister31]

The big question is: what would Jazz pilots get in exchange?

The bigger question is what if Jazz pilots gets nothing in exchange? Grievance? That could take years?

The even bigger question is: what if reducing the 60% flow is not even being discussed and anyone suggesting it is just going fishing?

58

That is definitely a possibility too! Who knows, maybe some people on Avcan have no direct knowledge of the situation

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

It is to my knowledge the MEC is actively discussing this.

[Transition9er2]

The simple math is, jazz is quickly approaching the time when they simply won’t have enough pilots who are able to transition over to AC to meet that 60% requirement.

My guess is, in 10-12 months AC will have depleted all available candidates from Jazz. Unless Jazz puts a stop to it first.

The 2019 contract was pitched to the pilot group as “vote yes for this and save your jobs. Vote no and CR MIGHT destroy our airline entirely. The sweetener is they’ll take 60% if you vote yes”

Fast forward to today, and the contract between Jazz and AC is a steaming pile of crap.

If you wanna get to AC the fastest way possible, my advice, go to Flair, Lynx, CargoJet etc… you’ll get significantly better pay right out of the gate and those airlines will be the next source to meet AC’s hiring demands.

If you want to work for a great company, but the pay is subpar and you have a really solid option of one day possibly flowing to AC, definitely go to Jazz. But seriously consider options if you’re only using Jazz as a stepping stone.

Food for thought.

T.

[Ash Ketchum]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

[rudder]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

Jazz got what it wanted in the short term. Cheap pilots with a short Jazz tenure. The cost was high turnover. Training costs paid by AC so no big deal. Now post-COVID, there is massive hiring at AC, there is a massive spike in Jazz flow, a flow backlog, and pilots still stuck on a de facto b-scale at Jazz with a questionable flow timeline to AC.

If Jazz and AC agree to reduce flow, Jazz is facing a policy grievance with a potential requested remedy of reinstating the original pay scales at Jazz (the quid pro quo for flow, as well as the CBA term extension). ALPA would be crazy to consent to any diminution of the existing terms absent compensation and a flow mechanism that is not subject to whim.

Likely this was discussed earlier in the year with no agreed resolution. There has been no official communication from the union about resumed discussions.

Have any Jazz pilots been assigned a September PIT course date with AC?

[goingmissed]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

Industry wide change is coming. Hopefully it's better WaWCons and not another recession.

[Droho774]

Jazz pilots have not been assigned pit dates for September as of now. Hopefully they will start being awarded this month

[kiaszceski]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

ALPA would be crazy to consent to any diminution of the existing terms absent compensation and a flow mechanism that is not subject to whim.

How effective is usually JZA MEC/the company to come up with an acceptable resolution without going into the grievance process?

[Transition9er2]

Had a chat with a member of the training department recently (reliable source) and they said the Sept classes will definitely be made up of Jazz, if not entirely a great deal of the class will be Jazz.

Flow is starting in Sept no question, but the math is what’s interesting in my opinion and how the 2 companies will make things work over the next few months.

AC continues to interview 4-6 candidates a day Mon-Fri so I suspect the remaining classes of the year will be made up of mostly Jazz with a few OTS sprinkled in. This is just my guess.

AC is planning on running an Equipment Bid in Sept, which will be a good indicator as to what the hiring will look like over the winter.

GS’s running roughly every 3 weeks with 25-35 per. Management wanted 45-50 per but the training departments are running beyond max capacity at the moment and they simply said they just can’t take that many in.

I sure hope we start seeing all the “contractually” qualified Jazz candidates coming over soon.

Good luck everyone!!

[CanadianPilotQc]

Have any Jazz pilots been assigned a September PIT course date with AC?

very important question, anyone?

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

Interviews ongoing but no assignments yet.