Air Mikisew Job posting

BigWillyStyle · Post by **BigWillyStyle** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:12 pm

By all accounts, there are a lot of whiners in Canada. I find it hard to believe that there are careers that pay a lot, and require a lot of hard work, but everyone hates them.

?

Life is hard, unless I miss my guess. For all the undeclared out there, find what you love, exert some effort, and excel. The money will follow. And if it doesn't come in 6 figures, but you are getting by, GET OVER IT. You are enjoying yourself. Quitcher bitchin. Everyone has problems. If you are looking for quick money for little work, try securities fraud. Bitching pilots are right up there with the professional victims living in Puk or YXL or Wollaston Lake. If you don't like the situation, do something about it or suck it up. Pilots that think that life will be so much better when they can move back to Toronto/Calgary/Montreal and pay 500K for a house and 50K for a bond and be stuck in traffic 2 hours a day need to give their heads a shake.

BWS

wrenchingirl · Post by **wrenchingirl** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:26 pm

There is NO reason to work for less than the guy at Tim Hortons NONE

jetpilot69 · Post by **jetpilot69** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:02 pm

Fort Mcmurray is a great place to live. There is lots of money to make and to sepnd. Working on the ramp is great too, if your starting out its a great place. You can get into a plane in 2 years and get experience on lots of planes. Thers lots of hot girls up here and lots of oil. But some people would rather live on a reserve and make $7.25 per hour such as Transwest Air.

Kernal Klink · Post by **Kernal Klink** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:45 pm

It's a big slap in the face to be offered that kind of CRAP wage, especially when making a large investment to obtain a licence. I really hope that the person who posted that job is reading all of our comments, and will give their heads a shake. We're not asking for much, just to be paid for being the professionals that we are.

*'Ho-Driver* · Post by ***'Ho-Driver*** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:48 pm

wrenchingirl wrote:There is NO reason to work for less than the guy at Tim Hortons NONE

Really?

Well then, I guess there's no pilots out there getting paid less than the guy at Tim Hortons....

And hey, they're Canadian Architects of Sandwich; Artistisans of the Cream of Mushroom.

You can teach a monkey to fly, but you can't teach him how to wear a hair net....

phillyfan · Post by **phillyfan** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:34 pm

If there are pilots out there who are working for less then Tim Hortons employees . They are known in this industry as whores and in the end, one thing is for sure, whores will get fucked.

Switchfoot · Post by **Switchfoot** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:07 pm

phillyfan wrote:If there are pilots out there who are working for less then Tim Hortons employees . They are known in this industry as whores and in the end, one thing is for sure, whores will get fucked.

The problem is that MOST pilots ARE working for less than Tim Horton's employees when starting in this industry. That's no secret, and it's sad, but true.

Fortunately, things improve when you move up the ranks.
It starts with the individual.

Switchfoot.

grassroots · Post by **grassroots** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:09 pm

Mig29 made the point in an earlier post. People are free to make their own decisions, whether it is working on the ramp at Mikisew for $11.50/hour, or working at Tim Hortons.

What I find interesting are people's lack of willingness to accept the consequences of their actions or decisions. A lot of guys/gals should ask themselves the question: "Prior to taking flying lessons with the dream of being a highly paid pilot, did I do some research and make sure there were lots of real opportunities after graduation?" It has been since the '70's since there were jobs for people straight out of flight school. If guys/girls did their proper due diligence before dropping their life savings+ on flight school would they, as a prudent person, proceed down this path? I am sure the flying schools said there would/will be lots of jobs, but people, please check their references and data to support this comment. They are just puppy mills, its in their interest to crank out the students.

The ability to make poor decisions is not the sole domain of the pilot, however if you read through the threads there sure seem to be a lot of us who do make poor decisions. I am not trying to start the whole debate all over again, but if you look far enough back in history I am pretty sure we will see a pilot first proposing to: work for free, work the ramp, etc. (I know I have heard guys offer it without being asked). I also know guys who leave very good paying jobs with a future to take jobs on the ramp, cleaning airplanes etc. with the hope of getting a flying position. This is his decision, and he (I would hope is not making it for monetary reasons) just wants to fly. Everyone should realize that there will be no big money jobs materializing overnight, and the industry will not change overnight. The changes everyone wants to see happen in pay scale and available positions take years to occur, its just pure and simple business and economics. It takes something profound (such as the introduction of Westjet, or de-regulation of commuter airlines), to create even a short term change in the supply/demand curves.

Anyway, I digress. Thought I would share my thoughts that might help someone new make a decision on whether to pursue this business or not.

DeskDriver · Post by **DeskDriver** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:21 pm

There is actually a great lack of respect for people who work at Tim Horton's. Some folks here think that they're better than their fellow human. To think that is ignorant to the extreme.

Buck up and listen children.

You are doing a job. You do it for money. The market decides what your pay will be. The world does not *OWE* you anything.

Like to fly? Fly. Like money? Earn your living. Farting out $40K in training does not mean you'll get 6 figures in income. You can make money in aviation, and you can have fun in aviation. But understand that the world does not "owe you" just cuz "Ye kun flie un erplane".

The recipe for winning is simple: Be smart, be humble, bust your ass, build relationships, bust your ass again, go back to being humble, and hope that you get some luck from being a good person. You'll make a lot of sacrifices, you'll settle for second best whilst you strive for what's best for you. With that, you'll do well.

The recipe for failure is simple: Feel you're worth something. Feel it is owed to you. Be arrogant. Slack off because you're better than the other guy. Take it easy because you know you're good. If you don't get what you want, don't worry. Blame the system and not your actions.

Next up: Meet people and expect that they'll be thrilled to meet you. Go to the bar and expect people to be real glad to talk to a "PILOT!?!?" rather than have people being thrilled to talk to a good person. Stand tall, stand proud, and know that you're wiser than those before you.

There is no amount of money which will make a person a Man. There is no bond which will make you a slave. There is no amount of pay that will make you wealthy. If the race is to make money, brothers, I've already lapped you. If the point is to enjoy your trip, then you're someone I'd call a brother. But look yourself in the mirror honestly and say "Self, I just fly airplanes." Like it or hate it.

jetpilot69 · Post by **jetpilot69** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:28 pm

Tim Hortons does not start at $13 an hour. They start at about $11.50, its takes experience like every other job. Its not a career either, Air Mikisew has all benifits plus after 3 months it goes up to $12.50 then after a year it goes to $13.50. Air Mikisew pays good over time and call outs. And a 250 hour pilot is not that prefessional. Your not professional until you are a turbo jet captain with 4000 hours of flying time. Being a pilot is like being a bus driver. And if pilots started at $100,000 a year everyone would be a pilot. Any dumb ass can become a pilot its not that hard. I like to see hard working pilots on the ground for shitting money, it means they are willing to fly a plane for fun not money. As long as management can see it and will make them progress fast its great. You can't compare working at Tim Hortons over a rmap job, everyone has to begin at the bottom and Tim Hortons is a dead end job.

DeskDriver · Post by **DeskDriver** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:34 pm

Jetpilot: Is Tim's a deadend job? I wonder. I don't work for Tim's, but the Western Market Manager for Tims slung coffee and doughnuts for a long time. Busted his ass and probably bounced a few rent cheques.

He's now 41 and making six figs per year (before the IPO).

Life keeps shitting on people who work hard and make sacrifices.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:01 am

Jetpilot,

For guy who says he lives in McMurray, I suggest you drive by Tims and look at the ad... and it doesn't take experience.

You think you've arrived, pardon the pun, because you Capt a jet and have 4000hrs? You say you are now a professional, but still think that even $13.50 is acceptable in a place like McMurray? I question your professionalism - don't confuse it with a white shirt and a tie....

You say:

"Any dumb ass can become a pilot its not that hard." Pretty professional statement, so you fly for the chicks and the glamour? Or is it your steller 4000hr wages and the pride of flying the Oil Patch's finest around?

I guess that's why I now fly helicopters... I'm not just ANY dumbass.

STL

phillyfan · Post by **phillyfan** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:00 am

14 years in the bush
I've spent my time in the weather, or under it, not fat, happy and over it. I'm just as much a proffesional as you 4000hr turbine boys and I have not paid for a PPC or worked a day for free. So while us float drivers are now getting 4500 to 8000 a mth you turbo boys can keep workin for "timmy dollars" if that's what you think is best.
No offence to the multi flyers who are not, bent over and takin it.

flyinthebug · Post by **flyinthebug** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:36 am

Good point Philly..(even thou u dont return PM`s) I came out of flying school as a professional. Much like Philly, I was floggin a DHC2 around the coast with 1500 hours and believe me I felt professional and provided a professional service.

You dont require 4000+ TT and a jetseat to be professional.. nor do you require it for respect as a professional. Hard work, perserverence, and dedication will take you a long ways.. with 200 hours or 4000.... if you act professional you will be treated accordingly and PAID fairly for the work you do. Management types pay attention to whos working hard and who cares about the company they run. It may not always (or even often) seem like they are watching BUT they are. Remember the guy/gal who is your boss today, is the same guy YOU are aspiring to become (or hold the position of, if you lack respect for the holder of it).

You control your own destiny. You are the one that decides to fly for 7$ an hour or not. What level of professionalism are you striving for? Its starts the DAY you walk out of flight school and into the front door of your first operator.

Fly safe all, Cheers

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:30 am

The market sets the salary. Tim's can't get workers in Ft.Mac because other jobs that require similar training ie. virtually none pay the same or more. Their market dictates they pay almost double what a person gets in Toronto for the same job.
Likewise Air Mikisew pays what their market dictates. They can't find somebody for $10, which is what the ramp pays in Calgary for a couple companies. So they are offering $11.50. If they can't find somebody they'll offer $12.50. Simple!
If somebody takes the job- that's the market rate.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:06 am

Dockjock wrote: If they can't find somebody they'll offer $12.50. Simple!
If somebody takes the job- that's the market rate.

Unfortunately Dockjock, you are right.

STL

jetpilot69 · Post by **jetpilot69** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:55 am

Thats why if you work the ramp you can work 2 jobs and make $60,000 a year before you start flying. Or go work in the oil patch and make $120k a year and buy your own plane. Its not hard to make $20 an hour, or 6 figures. Thats because Alberta is the richest and most powerful province in Canada.

DeskDriver · Post by **DeskDriver** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:41 pm

sky's the limit wrote:
Dockjock wrote: If they can't find somebody they'll offer $12.50. Simple!
If somebody takes the job- that's the market rate.
Unfortunately Dockjock, you are right.

STL

Sky's the Limit: But I do suspect that you'd be the first to complain if you had to pay $5.75 for your coffee.

Athabasca University offers several courses in Economics. All fairly inexpensive. PM me and I'll give you the contact for the Registerar. It'll cost less than your Aerocourse and serve you better in the long-term.[/code]

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:28 pm

Deskdriver.

Please do not make any assumptions about me, my spending habits or my education... If you'd like the name of a school that actually knows something about economics, feel free to get in touch...

Oh, and you won't hear me complaining about a $6 cup of Joe either, you see I get paid rather well for my services. That's the problem with people like you, operating on assumptions - in my world, that gets you nowhere but into trouble my friend. That piece of adivce was free, the next one will cost you, how's $5.75 sound?

STL

cow-tipping-in-the-night · Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:00 am

a word of warning to any air mikisew hopefuls:
a friend of mine was holding over at the Esso Aviatat one fine day when he witnessed this:
AirMik's chief pilot nearly ran over a marshaller in YXD - he came storming in and wouldn't slow down his airplane. The marshaller eventually threw down the wands and got out of the way. then the CP got out and demeaned that marshaller in front of witnesses. is this the leadership you want in a CP?
$11.50 an hour is not the only thing to consider here. . .

N2 · Post by N2 » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:58 am

Not to get off topic here but what is Fort McMurray like to live in. I have been pondering the idea of working up there (not aviation related) but have heard horror stories about rent and such. Please someone factual set the story straight.

An with regards to the previous post, a few years ago I emailed the forementioned company CP (Fran*) and got the response he would not hire anyone over 30 years old because "he didn't want to have to train them how to fly". Hindsight I should have taken that email to the labour board. I don't know if he is still around but he should have his ass fired if he is.

F-16 · Post by **F-16** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:17 am

N2,

Check your PM's.

Cheers

f-16

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:16 am

" An with regards to the previous post, a few years ago I emailed the forementioned company CP (Fran*) and got the response he would not hire anyone over 30 years old because "he didn't want to have to train them how to fly". "

You can't be serious?

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:02 am

N2. Just pass along his name to me (pm) and I'll enlighten my contacts at Canadian North, West Jet and Air Canada. I'm surprised anyone over thirty even applied. At that age, maturity, life experience, and dignity must replace flying skills.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:50 pm

If Tim's could get somebody to pay $5.75 for a cup of coffee, they would do it too. But the market dictates that people are only willing to part with $1.25 for their product. If somebody pays it, it's the market rate. If a 3 bedroom condo in downtown Calgary sells for $350,000...you get the picture.
Oh wait, there is a company that convinced people they would want to pay $5.75 for a coffee. It's called Starbucks, you might have heard of it?

Air Mikisew Job posting

Fort Mcmurray is great!

Fort McMurray runs the world

Fort McMurray

N2