Foreign DEC

[negroni]

"Living the dream"


Maybe he wouldn't have to live in a van if the pay improved here in Canada instead of hiring South Africans and looking for any way to keep costs down.

[negroni]

I see the internet heroes of ignorance are back.

What I said was that Flair is not and will not pursue Temporary Foreign Workers which involves hiring foreign pilot license and passport holders to come on a temporary Foreign License Validation Certificate and operate Canadian aircraft for a period of time similar to the program that Sunwing has used seasonally.

What we have done and are continuing to do, is recruit pilots that do not hold Canadian passports. We have recruited some Ukrainian nationals under the Canadian government's CUAET program and we are actively recruiting experienced pilots from South Africa. These foreign nationals will be supported in order to immigrate to Canada, obtain Permanent Residency for themselves and their families, and eventually Canadian Citizenship. They have the right to work in Canada, same as any other Canadian pilot, and will have obtained a Canadian ATPL and medical before they operate any Canadian registered aircraft.

It's a time-consuming, expensive process and has nothing to do with the TFW program used by other airlines in Canada. It provides the opportunity for foreign nationals who wish to immigrate to Canada an opportunity for Canadian citizenship for their families and helps bring qualified professionals to Canada who will contribute to our industry and our country for years to come.

Scab

"a person who refuses to strike or to join a labor union or who takes over the job responsibilities of a striking worker."
verb.

So you are incorrect. Before you post something you think is clever or inflammatory, I'd suggest actually understanding what it is you're trying to say. In this case you simply look ignorant.

Interestingly, your less than erudite attempt to inflame has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. Try again.

Nah mate. He's a scab. He went to fly for an airline whos only reason for existence was to undercut the WestJet pilots and was a large part along with all the other swoopster scab decs of why swoop actually managed to get off the ground. And then dipped as soon as something better came along. And now swoop pays some of the lowest wages in Canada for and NB 705. Scab.

[Alkasultzer]

So you guys are telling me the VP of Flight Ops at Flair lives in a van down by the river with a flight attendant?

Cringe

[GRK2]

https://youtu.be/2sRS1dwCotw

[Inverted2]

I lived in my Jeep Cherokee for 3 days back in the day between apartments and that was enough. I wasn’t near a river though!

[crashpadcommute]

https://youtu.be/2sRS1dwCotw

I think you meant this link...

https://youtu.be/Xv2VIEY9-A8

[Jumbo744]

Wow you guys have reached a new low. He is 100% right when he calls you internet heroes. It is alarming to know that there are such immature pilots flying in Canada.

[flying4dollars]

You lot do realize that some people maybe enjoy living a simplistic lifestyle, ie van life etc, regardless of their income right? It's a personal decision and you guys are here attacking him for it? That says more about you than him.

[ads-b]

The difference with the usa, they’ve already increased their pay and working conditions to attract pilots. Canada hasn’t even started and shitbag companies are attempting to usurp supply demand curve.

We all need to stop defending the companies we work for, grow a set and stand together.

TFW are bullshit. Immigration pathway for crap pay also bullshit. No wrapping this with a bow.

[daedalusx]

The difference with the usa, they’ve already increased their pay and working conditions to attract pilots. Canada hasn’t even started and shitbag companies are attempting to usurp supply demand curve.

We all need to stop defending the companies we work for, grow a set and stand together.

TFW are bullshit. Immigration pathway for crap pay also bullshit. No wrapping this with a bow.

Well said. The USA pilot market doesn't have FTWs, open border/immigration pathway programs, cadets/250hrs CPLs in the right seat of airliners and somehow they managed to figure out the supply/demand curve.

Why would any company bends over backward to pay FOs decent liveable wages when they can get a self-sponsored TR cadet program ? Why bother attracting local DECs when there's TFWs and immigration pathways programs ?

[Tbayer2021]

Unbelievable how many see nothing wrong with what this individual alone has done. Him and his kind have done and continue to do irreparable damage to our profession, yet we still have some jumping to their defence, I guess maybe those defending him are those who'd do the same if it were them.

When you go for a job that's being contested under scope purview and every professional association in the country is calling for an application boycott of said job, and you still chose to ignore all of that, you're damn well a scab.

And now he hides behind the technicality that what they're looking for is technically not a TFW. But the principle of why they're doing it remains the same as TFW. They need to attract qualified talent and don't want to raise wages to do so.

You personify everything that's wrong in this industry for pilots. I wish we had a similar scab list like the Americans do to this day.

[GeoffPilot]

Wow you guys have reached a new low.

As low as the pay for pilots in this country?

Pilots that fly the same planes we do & fly to the same destinations make multiple times what Canadians do...and we got people attempting to circumvent labour economics to not pay us more...and any sort of criticism of this, is a problem?

Are pilots in Canuckistan that thick?

[Donald]

Don't forget that he's also ex-Jetsgo.

At least Flair isn't pay-for-training.

Yet.

[Jester123]

.

[Jester123]

To play devil's advocate a bit:

Funny how some here are very upset about foreign pilots coming here, but many of us would go to the USA in a heartbeat if offered the opportunity to fly for United, Delta, American or Alaska

Don't forget about Canadian pilots flying (or that have flown) for Cathay, Emirates, Etihad, Qatar, Fly Dubai, Korean etc.

Again, just pointing out a little hypochrisy... (and I'm guilty of that myself)

BUT:

For the record, I'm against hiring foreign pilots under the pretext of "We can't find enough guys and gals here". Yes, you can if you're willing to pay more. Not willing to pay adequate wages is not a reason to import cheap labor.

With that being said, if South Africans, Ukranians, etc. want to immigrate to Canada and start a life here, as legal landed immigrantS, I'm okay with that, but you go though the proper immigration channels (like my family did back in the 90s).

.

[co-joe]

We are certainly giving this industry a shakedown.

I think for those of us at Flair, what we need to remember is that everyone with a seniority number today with 2000 hours or more, will have the opportunity to be a 737 Captain within 2 years. The company has proved to me, that they are committed to internal upgrades, and hiring a few expats is not going to change that in the least.

But our plan is ambitious, our rate of expansion is unheralded, and we simply will not be able to meet all of our staffing levels without taking drastic measures. If tbaylx says that hiring a few english speaking expats will help us achieve our goals, then I trust him with my career progression. I do. He's been a team player from day one for me, he's been honest, to the point, and a no bullshit stand up guy. I don't care where he chooses to live.

Flair will continue to expand into new markets, and will continue to shake up the industry. Many WestJetters are scared, they allowed Clive to stab them in the back by creating the lowest paying 737 operator in North America, (possibly in the world) right under their noses. They are lashing out in anger because they have no scope protection in their CBA, and they are powerless to stop the cannibalisation of their routes. WestJet management will continue to take WestJet flying with Swoop, and Sunwing, and at the moment there is nothing they can do about it.

The anger here is proof that we are on the right track. Im excited to be a part of this, bring on the cool aid comments below.

[Tbayer2021]

We are certainly giving this industry a shakedown.

I think for those of us at Flair, what we need to remember is that everyone with a seniority number today with 2000 hours or more, will have the opportunity to be a 737 Captain within 2 years. The company has proved to me, that they are committed to internal upgrades, and hiring a few expats is not going to change that in the least.

But our plan is ambitious, our rate of expansion is unheralded, and we simply will not be able to meet all of our staffing levels without taking drastic measures. If tbaylx says that hiring a few english speaking expats will help us achieve our goals, then I trust him with my career progression. I do. He's been a team player from day one for me, he's been honest, to the point, and a no bullshit stand up guy. I don't care where he chooses to live.

Flair will continue to expand into new markets, and will continue to shake up the industry. Many WestJetters are scared, they allowed Clive to stab them in the back by creating the lowest paying 737 operator in North America, (possibly in the world) right under their noses. They are lashing out in anger because they have no scope protection in their CBA, and they are powerless to stop the cannibalisation of their routes. WestJet management will continue to take WestJet flying with Swoop, and Sunwing, and at the moment there is nothing they can do about it.

The anger here is proof that we are on the right track. Im excited to be a part of this, bring on the cool aid comments below.

Yup! just wait till it becomes more convenient to hire more of foreigners than locals. I wonder what tune you'll be singing then. My guess is you won't care because you'd have gotten yours by then, will keep licking that boot.

[safetyfirst123]

There's a site I've come across recently, safeflights.ca and perhaps they need to update with this latest development from Flair. Maybe Flair pilots will decide that this is a turning point for them. Hiring foreign pilots should be a last resort, only after negotiating a strong contract. It's really up to Flair pilots and ALPA to let management know their thoughts on this, and how it undermines the bargaining process.

https://safeflights.ca/index.php?page=action-status

[safetyfirst123]

There's a site I've come across recently, https://safeflights.ca and perhaps they need to update with this latest development from Flair. Maybe Flair pilots will decide that this is a turning point for them. Hiring foreign pilots should be a last resort, only after negotiating a strong contract. It's really up to Flair pilots and ALPA to let management know their thoughts on this, and how it undermines the bargaining process.

https://safeflights.ca/index.php?page=action-status

[aeronauticaldisaster]

We are certainly giving this industry a shakedown.

I think for those of us at Flair, what we need to remember is that everyone with a seniority number today with 2000 hours or more, will have the opportunity to be a 737 Captain within 2 years. The company has proved to me, that they are committed to internal upgrades, and hiring a few expats is not going to change that in the least.

But our plan is ambitious, our rate of expansion is unheralded, and we simply will not be able to meet all of our staffing levels without taking drastic measures. If tbaylx says that hiring a few english speaking expats will help us achieve our goals, then I trust him with my career progression. I do. He's been a team player from day one for me, he's been honest, to the point, and a no bullshit stand up guy. I don't care where he chooses to live.

Flair will continue to expand into new markets, and will continue to shake up the industry. Many WestJetters are scared, they allowed Clive to stab them in the back by creating the lowest paying 737 operator in North America, (possibly in the world) right under their noses. They are lashing out in anger because they have no scope protection in their CBA, and they are powerless to stop the cannibalisation of their routes. WestJet management will continue to take WestJet flying with Swoop, and Sunwing, and at the moment there is nothing they can do about it.

The anger here is proof that we are on the right track. Im excited to be a part of this, bring on the cool aid comments below.

This post is quite the pile. Everyone should read it, digest it, and realize why it should be discarded via one of the two body orifices

This is exactly why we need to ban together as a profession and establish PROPER industry rates

Divide & Conquer can be internally among a group or using another company as a boogie monster: "Many WestJetters are scared"

I remember when AC pilots were supposed to be scared of WJ pilots as they too bought into the kool-aid of grooming planes at below industry rate

Truth is, company managers are smart in knowing that pilots generally fall for the "have the opportunity to be a 737 Captain within 2 years" faster than the new 22 yrs old recently single flight attendant

Even being a Captain at Flair has abysmal rates. Outright embarrassing. If I was an industry manager, I'd be expanding all over the world too knowing Canada is the international gold standard for pilot sweat shops

One key way to massively improve pay is to ensure companies can't cop out on honoring labour supply & demand. US pilot unions fight hard against allowing in foreign pilots, increasing of the retirement age and lowering of hour experience requirements (which we don't even have)

Enough is enough. Don't be a fool. Let's demand better as a group, across company lines, and leave this profession better than what it is today

[fish4life]

We are certainly giving this industry a shakedown.

I think for those of us at Flair, what we need to remember is that everyone with a seniority number today with 2000 hours or more, will have the opportunity to be a 737 Captain within 2 years. The company has proved to me, that they are committed to internal upgrades, and hiring a few expats is not going to change that in the least.

But our plan is ambitious, our rate of expansion is unheralded, and we simply will not be able to meet all of our staffing levels without taking drastic measures. If tbaylx says that hiring a few english speaking expats will help us achieve our goals, then I trust him with my career progression. I do. He's been a team player from day one for me, he's been honest, to the point, and a no bullshit stand up guy. I don't care where he chooses to live.

Flair will continue to expand into new markets, and will continue to shake up the industry. Many WestJetters are scared, they allowed Clive to stab them in the back by creating the lowest paying 737 operator in North America, (possibly in the world) right under their noses. They are lashing out in anger because they have no scope protection in their CBA, and they are powerless to stop the cannibalisation of their routes. WestJet management will continue to take WestJet flying with Swoop, and Sunwing, and at the moment there is nothing they can do about it.

The anger here is proof that we are on the right track. Im excited to be a part of this, bring on the cool aid comments below.

Jesus open your eyes dude, Flair could still do this expansion and find Canadian pilots if they paid better which is great for you since you’d get a raise.

They aren’t looking for pilots in South Africa because they can’t find enough Canadians, they are doing it because they don’t pay enough to attract that talent.

Let’s say 1 year from now things are starting to change and the company starts really playing hardball will the SA pilots risk standing up against the company and risk losing their right to work in Canada ? No they will continue to work for sub par conditions because they are here for a passport.

[flying4dollars]

Unbelievable how many see nothing wrong with what this individual alone has done. Him and his kind have done and continue to do irreparable damage to our profession, yet we still have some jumping to their defence, I guess maybe those defending him are those who'd do the same if it were them.

When you go for a job that's being contested under scope purview and every professional association in the country is calling for an application boycott of said job, and you still chose to ignore all of that, you're damn well a scab.

And now he hides behind the technicality that what they're looking for is technically not a TFW. But the principle of why they're doing it remains the same as TFW. They need to attract qualified talent and don't want to raise wages to do so.

You personify everything that's wrong in this industry for pilots. I wish we had a similar scab list like the Americans do to this day.

You can crucify him for his choice to join Swoop in their genesis if you'd like. But when the attacks are directed at someone's choice for where they choose to reside, it just gets petty and immature and of course I'll say something about that. This isn't about defending his professional choices. How you can't see that is shocking.

[Arnie Pye]

We are certainly giving this industry a shakedown.

I think for those of us at Flair, what we need to remember is that everyone with a seniority number today with 2000 hours or more, will have the opportunity to be a 737 Captain within 2 years. The company has proved to me, that they are committed to internal upgrades, and hiring a few expats is not going to change that in the least.

But our plan is ambitious, our rate of expansion is unheralded, and we simply will not be able to meet all of our staffing levels without taking drastic measures. If tbaylx says that hiring a few english speaking expats will help us achieve our goals, then I trust him with my career progression. I do. He's been a team player from day one for me, he's been honest, to the point, and a no bullshit stand up guy. I don't care where he chooses to live.

Flair will continue to expand into new markets, and will continue to shake up the industry. Many WestJetters are scared, they allowed Clive to stab them in the back by creating the lowest paying 737 operator in North America, (possibly in the world) right under their noses. They are lashing out in anger because they have no scope protection in their CBA, and they are powerless to stop the cannibalisation of their routes. WestJet management will continue to take WestJet flying with Swoop, and Sunwing, and at the moment there is nothing they can do about it.

The anger here is proof that we are on the right track. Im excited to be a part of this, bring on the cool aid comments below.

Is this a parody account?

Flair doesn't have a recruiting problem. It has a retention problem. What is the churn at Air Canada, less than 1%? What about WestJet? Even with the chaos, are they losing 5%? Sunwing, Transit?? 5% maybe? Less?

Flair is losing over 20% of their pilots in their first year. Management was quite mum about the number of people leaving between 12-24 months. I'm guessing that this is also around 20%. Flair's employee turnover has to be 5-10X higher than any other major airline. Why is that? It has become so bad that the keeper of the seniority list won't number it any longer. If you count down the list, it's only about 12 longer than it was this time last year. For every course of 16 that we hire, the seniority list grows by 1 person. There's your problem. It's retention, not scarcity.

[ads-b]

Thanks for that post Arnie. Reinforces the theme that’s going to play out at every airline in Canada. If you want to play, you need to pay.

I’ll say this again. Time for every union in Canada to come together. Pick up your phones and call each other. Come up with pay rates and pension plan for every type of aircraft. Just like Nav Canada we now become a fixed cost. All companies can either pay or go bye bye. That includes mine.

Co-joe. Screen shot your post and save it somewhere special. In 10-20 years from now look at it. I bet you’ll have a much different viewpoint. At some point you’ll realize working the tiller doesn’t mean shit. After training for almost 2 decades I can also tell you that pilots who boast about how fast they think they’ll be upgraded are generally “average”. That’s not a slight. Just an observation.

Oh and one last point. If you think your company cares about you. Your correct. But it’s indirect. You’re a vehicle for them to make money. If they could figure out a way to not have you, you’d be sitting at home playing flight sim.

[safetyfirst123]

Flair doesn't have a recruiting problem. It has a retention problem. What is the churn at Air Canada, less than 1%? What about WestJet? Even with the chaos, are they losing 5%? Sunwing, Transit?? 5% maybe? Less?

Flair is losing over 20% of their pilots in their first year. Management was quite mum about the number of people leaving between 12-24 months. I'm guessing that this is also around 20%. Flair's employee turnover has to be 5-10X higher than any other major airline. Why is that? It has become so bad that the keeper of the seniority list won't number it any longer. If you count down the list, it's only about 12 longer than it was this time last year. For every course of 16 that we hire, the seniority list grows by 1 person. There's your problem. It's retention, not scarcity.

It is a similar story at Sunwing. The number of pilots at Sunwing has now reached what they had pre-pandemic, or roughly 450 pilots. That's after hiring a fair number of pilots in the last little while. I believe the number of resignations in the last year are around 80 or so, but I stand to be corrected. I hear Transat is losing a bunch of pilots, and Westjet alone lost over 30 pilots just last month to Air Canada.

My feeling is that the companies right now are playing a game of chicken between having to raise costs and weathering the upcoming recession. No airline wants to be the first to have to raise prices by $5 or $10 to pay their staff properly, they feel that they'll lose all their customers as a result.

This is why we need to stick together!