Company Morale

[Fanblade]

I see a lot of current Express transborder capacity replaced by either or both UA codeshare and AC mainline metal. I see some domestic Express service replaced by mainline/Rouge, and smaller stations by some type of codeshare or sub-51 seat CPA.

True. However this is coming at the expense of other mainline routes which is not a go forward strategy.

I have no Transborder JV numbers so this is supposition. The JV revenue share is based on capacity in the market. If AC’s percentage of capacity within the JV has reduced vs United so has AC potential revenue. United could be picking up AC’s slack. This may have been done as a last resort for summer 2023. Again not a go forward strategy.

What I’m saying is that AC certainly has levers to pull. But those levers cost money.

I agree that higher pilot costs will tip the scales toward mainline repatriation all over North America. So yes a smaller CPA carrier.

But they still need one.

We don’t make the business decisions. We just set rates.

[kiaszceski]

This is a controlled shrinking. Exactly like Encore, they let everybody leave and at one point the company came to the union and offered peanuts.

My guess is once we get to the 90-95 « crewable » tails the company will come to the union with a bandaid. That will give them the buffer to the 80 tails.

Have you considered Jazz willing to get rid of the embraer and keep only the 900 and Q? How many tails would that be?

[hithere]

When Jazz does decide to commit to one type of 76 seat jet I am 99% sure it will be the 175. It is much preferred by the customers

[Inverted2]

Who knows what the fleet replacement will be. The CRJ and E175 first gen are no longer being made and I don’t think they are making any more Q400 either.

[kiaszceski]

When Jazz does decide to commit to one type of 76 seat jet I am 99% sure it will be the 175. It is much preferred by the customers

How many training captains are left with 175 experience?
I heard most of them went to Porter.

[hithere]

The E175 first generation is absolutely still being made and is still being ordered in high volumes by the US CPA carriers because it is scope compliant

[Last Flight Out]

I came over from Sky with very high expectations of Jazz. I have been flying for a living now for over 30 years and thought Jazz would be the last stop in my career. I must say that in my 30 years as a pilot Jazz is by far the worst managed airline I have ever worked for. I am not here to shit on Jazz, I have met many great people at all levels of the operation. I believe the lack of leadership in management on the flight operations end of things is clearly fuelling the low morale we see here every day. Since the end of Covid when the shortage of pilots was again recognized and the mass exodus from Jazz to Air Canada and pretty much every other airline began we have heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM JAZZ to address the situation NOTHING. Of course this will lead to poor morale. Management is sending a clear message to the pilot group, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE THEN HIT THE ROAD WE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF YOU. Many are off to AC as they should with a great career ahead of them. Others are going where the money is and the hope of a better lifestyle. I hope my departure as that of many of my peers will some how help those staying at Jazz achieve the renumeration and improved working conditions that they deserve. It’s hard working for any company that clearly does not care about its employees. For anyone thinking of Jazz, stay away. There are so many great opportunities out there right now. Jazz should be at the bottom of your list, Don’t get stuck at Jazz. Find a good fit anywhere but here.

[canadian_aviator_4]

I came over from Sky with very high expectations of Jazz. I have been flying for a living now for over 30 years and thought Jazz would be the last stop in my career. I must say that in my 30 years as a pilot Jazz is by far the worst managed airline I have ever worked for. I am not here to shit on Jazz, I have met many great people at all levels of the operation. I believe the lack of leadership in management on the flight operations end of things is clearly fuelling the low morale we see here every day. Since the end of Covid when the shortage of pilots was again recognized and the mass exodus from Jazz to Air Canada and pretty much every other airline began we have heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM JAZZ to address the situation NOTHING. Of course this will lead to poor morale. Management is sending a clear message to the pilot group, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE THEN HIT THE ROAD WE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF YOU. Many are off to AC as they should with a great career ahead of them. Others are going where the money is and the hope of a better lifestyle. I hope my departure as that of many of my peers will some how help those staying at Jazz achieve the renumeration and improved working conditions that they deserve. It’s hard working for any company that clearly does not care about its employees. For anyone thinking of Jazz, stay away. There are so many great opportunities out there right now. Jazz should be at the bottom of your list, Don’t get stuck at Jazz. Find a good fit anywhere but here.

Well said. You are not alone, more and more junior to mid range captains that planned on making a career at jazz I have talked with are preparing their logbooks to leave. It’s not just junior fos. But a wide range of pilots who have lost faith in the company, and management to provide any sort of benefit for working there.

[CaptDukeNukem]

The E175 first generation is absolutely still being made and is still being ordered in high volumes by the US CPA carriers because it is scope compliant

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot the other day who told me it’s not. you can probably buy decent ones around the globe with tons of hours left on frame.

They may be completing previous orders but I don’t think they taking on extra E1 orders

Embraer also canned/paused the e2-175 due to the cost savings not being that much different than the e1.

[CaptDukeNukem]

The E175 first generation is absolutely still being made and is still being ordered in high volumes by the US CPA carriers because it is scope compliant

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot the other day who told me it’s not. you can probably buy decent ones around the globe with tons of hours left on frame.

They may be completing previous orders but I don’t think they taking on extra E1 orders

Embraer also canned/paused the e2-175 due to the cost savings not being that much different than the e1.

Update: just spoke to embraer pilot. The E1-175 is still being made mostly for SkyWest. So they are still available. He told me they just delivered the last E190-E1 to air Cairo. So the only E1 available is just the 175. I was mistaken about the production, my apologies.

He also said the E2-175 was above the allowable take off weight for US regional scope clauses. Even though the seat count could possibly be under.

[airway]

The E175 first generation is absolutely still being made and is still being ordered in high volumes by the US CPA carriers because it is scope compliant

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot the other day who told me it’s not. you can probably buy decent ones around the globe with tons of hours left on frame.

They may be completing previous orders but I don’t think they taking on extra E1 orders

Embraer also canned/paused the e2-175 due to the cost savings not being that much different than the e1.

Update: just spoke to embraer pilot. The E1-175 is still being made mostly for SkyWest. So they are still available. He told me they just delivered the last E190-E1 to air Cairo. So the only E1 available is just the 175. I was mistaken about the production, my apologies.

He also said the E2-175 was above the allowable take off weight for US regional scope clauses. Even though the seat count could possibly be under.

I heard it is also too big for the AC scope as well. I don't know if that is size, weight or seat # though.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot the other day who told me it’s not. you can probably buy decent ones around the globe with tons of hours left on frame.

They may be completing previous orders but I don’t think they taking on extra E1 orders

Embraer also canned/paused the e2-175 due to the cost savings not being that much different than the e1.

Update: just spoke to embraer pilot. The E1-175 is still being made mostly for SkyWest. So they are still available. He told me they just delivered the last E190-E1 to air Cairo. So the only E1 available is just the 175. I was mistaken about the production, my apologies.

He also said the E2-175 was above the allowable take off weight for US regional scope clauses. Even though the seat count could possibly be under.

I heard it is also too big for the AC scope as well. I don't know if that is size, weight or seat # though.

Would make sense.

Not many options for aircraft below 78 seats and a certain weight. Possibly the ATR-72…. And of course the E1-175, but not sure how long embraer gonna pump those out given the production demand for the E2

[rudder]

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot th

He also said the E2-175 was above the allowable take off weight for US regional scope clauses. Even though the seat count could possibly be under.

I heard it is also too big for the AC scope as well. I don't know if that is size, weight or seat # though.

The E2-175 is scope compliant at AC. Meets ACPA max seating and max hull size scope limitations. However, E2-175 is not being produced for commercial delivery.

E175 still in production and the 86000lb version is scope compliant in US. The 89000lb version is scope compliant at AC (and Alaska Airlines).

[Canucklhead]

I came over from Sky with very high expectations of Jazz. I have been flying for a living now for over 30 years and thought Jazz would be the last stop in my career. I must say that in my 30 years as a pilot Jazz is by far the worst managed airline I have ever worked for. I am not here to shit on Jazz, I have met many great people at all levels of the operation. I believe the lack of leadership in management on the flight operations end of things is clearly fuelling the low morale we see here every day. Since the end of Covid when the shortage of pilots was again recognized and the mass exodus from Jazz to Air Canada and pretty much every other airline began we have heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM JAZZ to address the situation NOTHING. Of course this will lead to poor morale. Management is sending a clear message to the pilot group, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE THEN HIT THE ROAD WE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF YOU. Many are off to AC as they should with a great career ahead of them. Others are going where the money is and the hope of a better lifestyle. I hope my departure as that of many of my peers will some how help those staying at Jazz achieve the renumeration and improved working conditions that they deserve. It’s hard working for any company that clearly does not care about its employees. For anyone thinking of Jazz, stay away. There are so many great opportunities out there right now. Jazz should be at the bottom of your list, Don’t get stuck at Jazz. Find a good fit anywhere but here.

I get the money thing, but what about the working conditions are bad? Talking to others that have left say the working conditions are good with a solid contract. Some that went to AC say their contract is terrible. Only thing better is the money eventually but the scheduling rules are as joke. Serious question not trying to troll.

[Canucklhead]

If you are type rated on the Ejet and based in YYZ, there is zero logical reason to not leave Jazz, unless if you interview with mainline is completed already

NOT
A
SINGLE
REASON

Unless you don’t believe the E195 operation at Porter will make it. I am in that camp. I don’t think the investors will keep putting money in forever. As others have pointed out, they have never made a dime on their Q400 operations except asset sales.

Suggest going over to the Porter thread on airliners. Pretty insightful comments from a few people that know what they’re talking about. They are not optimistic, put it that way.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot th

He also said the E2-175 was above the allowable take off weight for US regional scope clauses. Even though the seat count could possibly be under.

I heard it is also too big for the AC scope as well. I don't know if that is size, weight or seat # though.

The E2-175 is scope compliant at AC. Meets ACPA max seating and max hull size scope limitations. However, E2-175 is not being produced for commercial delivery.

E175 still in production and the 86000lb version is scope compliant in US. The 89000lb version is scope compliant at AC (and Alaska Airlines).

Thanks for the update!

[hithere]

Embraer has stated that the E2-175 commercial production decision has been delayed until 2025. They are hoping that the USA majors will ammend their scope clauses to allow it to be flown by their CPA carriers. A large order from a USA CPA carrier would justify the cost of completing commercial delelopment of the type but several majors just signed new contracts and to the best of my knowledge there were no changes to scope. Even though Jazz could currently operate the E2-175 under current scope I doubt a 40 tail order from Jazz would justify development

[airway]

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot th

He also said the E2-175 was above the allowable take off weight for US regional scope clauses. Even though the seat count could possibly be under.

I heard it is also too big for the AC scope as well. I don't know if that is size, weight or seat # though.

The E2-175 is scope compliant at AC. Meets ACPA max seating and max hull size scope limitations. However, E2-175 is not being produced for commercial delivery.

E175 still in production and the 86000lb version is scope compliant in US. The 89000lb version is scope compliant at AC (and Alaska Airlines).

Thanks

[canadian_aviator_4]

By the time Jazz gets new embraers I would be surprised if they had anyone left in their training department.

[link821]

[Loon-A-Tic]

I came over from Sky with very high expectations of Jazz. I have been flying for a living now for over 30 years and thought Jazz would be the last stop in my career. I must say that in my 30 years as a pilot Jazz is by far the worst managed airline I have ever worked for. I am not here to shit on Jazz, I have met many great people at all levels of the operation. I believe the lack of leadership in management on the flight operations end of things is clearly fuelling the low morale we see here every day. Since the end of Covid when the shortage of pilots was again recognized and the mass exodus from Jazz to Air Canada and pretty much every other airline began we have heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM JAZZ to address the situation NOTHING. Of course this will lead to poor morale. Management is sending a clear message to the pilot group, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE THEN HIT THE ROAD WE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF YOU. Many are off to AC as they should with a great career ahead of them. Others are going where the money is and the hope of a better lifestyle. I hope my departure as that of many of my peers will some how help those staying at Jazz achieve the renumeration and improved working conditions that they deserve. It’s hard working for any company that clearly does not care about its employees. For anyone thinking of Jazz, stay away. There are so many great opportunities out there right now. Jazz should be at the bottom of your list, Don’t get stuck at Jazz. Find a good fit anywhere but here.

Nailed it, can someone gets the lights please.

[Stu Pidasso]

Everyone in my class was hired less than a year ago and many are already fed up. Anyone else sick of surviving on canned soup?

I am curious Yolked, maybe tell the audience what your major complaint is? Not a Triple 7 Captain yet?

News Flash - only a short time ago it was a couple years "ramping" in the Arctic waiting for a flying seat. Then a few years flying Medivacs in the middle of the night as a co-pilot.

Maybe a left seat on a King Air.....then..... a Dash 8 Job at Jazz. Finally a Major Airline job by about 7000 Hours and 10 years in the industry.

Fast forward to 2023, Jazz with 250 hours, free clean White Shirt, no loading a patient that put a shot gun in their mouth into the back of a beat up King Air in -40.

How fed up are you?

[Tbayer2021]

Everyone in my class was hired less than a year ago and many are already fed up. Anyone else sick of surviving on canned soup?

I am curious Yolked, maybe tell the audience what your major complaint is? Not a Triple 7 Captain yet?

News Flash - only a short time ago it was a couple years "ramping" in the Arctic waiting for a flying seat. Then a few years flying Medivacs in the middle of the night as a co-pilot.

Maybe a left seat on a King Air.....then..... a Dash 8 Job at Jazz. Finally a Major Airline job by about 7000 Hours and 10 years in the industry.

Fast forward to 2023, Jazz with 250 hours, free clean White Shirt, no loading a patient that put a shot gun in their mouth into the back of a beat up King Air in -40.

How fed up are you?

Gotta love the logic of, "I had to eat shit for X amount of time so should you!"

Someone on a different thread brought up a good point. Its partly due to people like you that were willing to do non pilot related jobs, fly unsafe equipment and put up with all sorts of shit just so you could fly a nice shiny jet one day, that the industry is in the condition it is. It is people like you that showed management types that they could mop the floor with pilots and they'd still bend over and ask for more.

The young kids that you love to make fun of so much, seem to have the balls to say no to shitty work and work conditions. Something you never had the courage to do.

But thats what bothers you, isn't it? How can some young buck who "doesn't know jack shit" have the courage to do something you only dreamed about. These kids are doing what you told yourself you would have done while taking that hot shower at the end of a 17 hour day, "I should have said this and that when he told me to do X" Only to go and do it all over again the next day.

[RoAF-Mig21]

Everyone in my class was hired less than a year ago and many are already fed up. Anyone else sick of surviving on canned soup?

I am curious Yolked, maybe tell the audience what your major complaint is? Not a Triple 7 Captain yet?

News Flash - only a short time ago it was a couple years "ramping" in the Arctic waiting for a flying seat. Then a few years flying Medivacs in the middle of the night as a co-pilot.

Maybe a left seat on a King Air.....then..... a Dash 8 Job at Jazz. Finally a Major Airline job by about 7000 Hours and 10 years in the industry.

Fast forward to 2023, Jazz with 250 hours, free clean White Shirt, no loading a patient that put a shot gun in their mouth into the back of a beat up King Air in -40.

How fed up are you?

I did everything you mentioned above:
- Rampie for 1.5 years
- F/O and CAPT up North flying medevacs at night, seeing all sorts of insane things (gunshot victims, burn victims, domestic violence victims, etc).
- Dash 8 for many years... etc.

That has nothing to do with the facts that:

10 years ago rent wasn't $2,500 and groceries weren't $100 per bag, gas wasn't nearing $2.00 a litre and hotels were not $300 a night. Today's young generation is really struggling, whether it's in aviation or not. We shouldn't disregard their struggle. Yes, some want instant gratification, but the young pilots today that I meet are professional, mature and disciplined and they deserve a good life. Life in Canada, especially for the middle class, has gone to shit. I often tell people that if my wife and I had the same jobs (we have today) 20 years ago, we'd have a house on the lake (in Southern Ontario, like Kingsville) or a really nice townhouse in Toronto. Today we have to live far away to offer our child a decent house and a standard of living that I grew up with.

I understand where you're coming from. It seems we have similar experiences. It's important to see things as they are. You and I also didn't have to fly a Lancaster bomber over Dresden like our grandparents did. (Mine actually fought alongside the Germans... but I tend not to mention that small detail. The countries were drawn differently back then). Each generation faces its own struggles, its own ups and downs. We need to focus on the present and the future. What was 10 years ago is as irrelevant as what was 80 years ago.

[cdnavater]

Everyone in my class was hired less than a year ago and many are already fed up. Anyone else sick of surviving on canned soup?

I am curious Yolked, maybe tell the audience what your major complaint is? Not a Triple 7 Captain yet?

News Flash - only a short time ago it was a couple years "ramping" in the Arctic waiting for a flying seat. Then a few years flying Medivacs in the middle of the night as a co-pilot.

Maybe a left seat on a King Air.....then..... a Dash 8 Job at Jazz. Finally a Major Airline job by about 7000 Hours and 10 years in the industry.

Fast forward to 2023, Jazz with 250 hours, free clean White Shirt, no loading a patient that put a shot gun in their mouth into the back of a beat up King Air in -40.

How fed up are you?

Gotta love the logic of, "I had to eat shit for X amount of time so should you!"

Someone on a different thread brought up a good point. Its partly due to people like you that were willing to do non pilot related jobs, fly unsafe equipment and put up with all sorts of shit just so you could fly a nice shiny jet one day, that the industry is in the condition it is. It is people like you that showed management types that they could mop the floor with pilots and they'd still bend over and ask for more.

The young kids that you love to make fun of so much, seem to have the balls to say no to shitty work and work conditions. Something you never had the courage to do.

But thats what bothers you, isn't it? How can some young buck who "doesn't know jack shit" have the courage to do something you only dreamed about. These kids are doing what you told yourself you would have done while taking that hot shower at the end of a 17 hour day, "I should have said this and that when he told me to do X" Only to go and do it all over again the next day.

Except they aren’t saying no, they are lining up to be first in line for a shot at four years of flat pay and the only reason they’re bitching is because they aren’t at AC yet.
If they were, the shit conditions would only be reflected upon as the price they had to pay to get to AC.
You’ve got pilots on the AC forum saying they would apply if it wasn’t a pay cut and others warning about waiting having consequences of being junior to 500-2000 pilots who didn’t wait.