Is JerryRig Right?

[rando]

I am personally trying to stay away from calling ideas conspiracy theories. I think that has become a powerful tool for the media and government to help disguise their own misinformation utilizing average citizens to perpetuate a narrative.

It worked for Hitler.

[Invertago]

You've got to be kidding...absolute stupid comment. It's a lynching, bullying, call it what you like. Again, grow up and move on.

Actually I was kidding, you took it way too serious. Everyone knows you never lynch a person with less a 90% majority. 80% would be ridiculous.

[flyer 1492]

I'm surprised the moderators of this website do not follow their published rules. Allowing a poll that attacks an individual is against their standards of conduct. Will we see the moderators remove the poll or will they change their standards to allow defamation of an individual's character?

[Big Pistons Forever]

I did a lot of research before I got the first 2 shots. The overwhelming consensus from every public health agency and hospital was that the health impacts from getting COVID far outweighed the risk of a reaction from the vaccine.

There was also clear and consistent data from health care providers that even after the shot was widely available the majority of ICU cases were unvaccinated COVID patients. Those patients directly impacted the ability of Canadian hospitals to care for other Canadians and the delayed operations impacted the health outcomes of many Canadians

To argue the data is not valid would require over 50 different public health agencies and hospitals colluded to falsify their data. This is tinfoil hat land.

While I either just ignore or sometimes ridicule public assertions by anti-vaxer's when I am bored, the problem is they have politicized health science.
This has had a profound impact on Canada's public health organizations to do their job and respond to the next, and there will be a next, global pandemic

The sad irony is that the members of the anti vax movement are the beneficiaries of 60 years of mass vaccination. Ask any 80 year old what it was like to grow up before 1960, when polio crippled children and people died of measles and other terrible infections that were wiped out by mass vaccinations. To all you anti vaxers, careful what you wish for, you may get it....

[flyer 1492]

Have a family member that is a respiratory therapist at a large hospital, and no you are not accurate on all your data. Majority of patients had multiple comorbidities and they were not all cv unvaxed. Also, the cv unvaxed did not compromise the health care systems. Canada's health care system has been underfunded and understaffed for many years. Hospital staff are well aware of these issues in our Canadian hospitals and knew when the pandemic hit that they were horribly unprepared. Your federal and provincial governments would love to pass the buck onto someone else, to take the eyes off their miserable failures.

[YYCAME]

Maybe JerryRig would be qualified to answer if mental illness or a psychosis can be spread through social contact resulting in dangerous situations like a lynch mob or cults etc. If so, do the moderators have a social obligation to protect people from dangerous suggestions that could cause otherwise healthy people to do things their normal social structure would protect them from? Or should we draw arbitrary lines that govern how how much we are allowed to mess with other people's reality.

[flyer 1492]

What "normal" social structure are you referring to? People have the ability do their own homework and choose if they believe someone's comments or not. It's a pretty simple concept. Everyone has a right to thought and opinion regardless of if you like it or not. Again, if you don't care for a comment or disagree, then just move on.

[rookiepilot]

I did a lot of research before I got the first 2 shots. The overwhelming consensus from every public health agency and hospital was that the health impacts from getting COVID far outweighed the risk of a reaction from the vaccine.

There was also clear and consistent data from health care providers that even after the shot was widely available the majority of ICU cases were unvaccinated COVID patients. Those patients directly impacted the ability of Canadian hospitals to care for other Canadians and the delayed operations impacted the health outcomes of many Canadians

To argue the data is not valid would require over 50 different public health agencies and hospitals colluded to falsify their data. This is tinfoil hat land.

While I either just ignore or sometimes ridicule public assertions by anti-vaxer's when I am bored, the problem is they have politicized health science.
This has had a profound impact on Canada's public health organizations to do their job and respond to the next, and there will be a next, global pandemic

The sad irony is that the members of the anti vax movement are the beneficiaries of 60 years of mass vaccination. Ask any 80 year old what it was like to grow up before 1960, when polio crippled children and people died of measles and other terrible infections that were wiped out by mass vaccinations. To all you anti vaxers, careful what you wish for, you may get it....

Ditto. I researched and felt the analysis warranted the first 2 shots.

This argument changed after the shift to omicron and I refused further shots.

My concern was longer term impairment of my immune system.

The benefit wasn’t and isn’t there IMO, but for others, it may be.

When the analysis changes, so will I.

[kgb531]

What "normal" social structure are you referring to? People have the ability do their own homework and choose if they believe someone's comments or not. It's a pretty simple concept. Everyone has a right to thought and opinion regardless of if you like it or not. Again, if you don't care for a comment or disagree, then just move on.

When it comes to virology/immunology, the layperson does not possess the requisite educational background, experience and mental capacity to understand the subject matter let alone the "ability to do their own homework". Thinking they do in the first place is the root of most of the problem. Those who do are literally the poster children for Dunning-Kruger.

[flyer 1492]

In your opinion all doctors, virologists, immunologists, are created equal then? As long a they agree with a narrative...

[khedrei]

I did a lot of research before I got the first 2 shots. The overwhelming consensus from every public health agency and hospital was that the health impacts from getting COVID far outweighed the risk of a reaction from the vaccine.

That is extremely misleading. It isn't a one size fits all "benefit outweighs risk". To claim it is, is as bad as what you claim JerryRig is doing posting things out of context or making assumptions without evidence. Everything that I have seen shows that only for certain age groups and particularly people with comorbidities did the benefit even come close to outweighing the risk. For others, the young and healthy particularly, the risk outweighed the benefit.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I did a lot of research before I got the first 2 shots. The overwhelming consensus from every public health agency and hospital was that the health impacts from getting COVID far outweighed the risk of a reaction from the vaccine.

Everything that I have seen shows that only for certain age groups and particularly people with comorbidities did the benefit even come close to outweighing the risk. For others, the young and healthy particularly, the risk outweighed the benefit.

Your statement is not supported by most of the data I have seen. The data that does support it, as I said in my earlier post, invariably had methodological problems that rendered the conclusions as at best problematic and at worse clearly wrong. In any case the data shows that for any particular young healthy person, the risk from of getting sick enough to be hospitalized from COVID is greater than it is from a reaction to the vaccine. How much greater is difficult to really accurately quantify but appears to be in the range of 5 times more likely.

One of the consistent faults of anti-vax reporting is cherry picking isolated events and conflating them with what is happening in the general population. Human variability will ensure that someone who is young and healthy will get sick from the vaccine and the anti-vaxers will declare this as evidence that the vaccine is dangerous.

All it proves is that the vaccine promotes an immune reaction. No vaccine is perfect, the test is whether the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks of taking it. Here the data is pretty compelling, for all age groups your risk of getting so sick you need to be hospitalized and face increased probability of death, is much higher because you are unvaccinated and have COVID, than as a reaction to the shot.

[khedrei]

I did a lot of research before I got the first 2 shots. The overwhelming consensus from every public health agency and hospital was that the health impacts from getting COVID far outweighed the risk of a reaction from the vaccine.

Everything that I have seen shows that only for certain age groups and particularly people with comorbidities did the benefit even come close to outweighing the risk. For others, the young and healthy particularly, the risk outweighed the benefit.

Your statement is not supported by most of the data I have seen. The data that does support it, as I said in my earlier post, invariably had methodological problems that rendered the conclusions as at best problematic and at worse clearly wrong. In any case the data shows that for any particular young healthy person, the risk from of getting sick enough to be hospitalized from COVID is greater than it is from a reaction to the vaccine. How much greater is difficult to really accurately quantify but appears to be in the range of 5 times more likely.

One of the consistent faults of anti-vax reporting is cherry picking isolated events and conflating them with what is happening in the general population. Human variability will ensure that someone who is young and healthy will get sick from the vaccine and the anti-vaxers will declare this as evidence that the vaccine is dangerous.

All it proves is that the vaccine promotes an immune reaction. No vaccine is perfect, the test is whether the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks of taking it. Here the data is pretty compelling, for all age groups your risk of getting so sick you need to be hospitalized and face increased probability of death, is much higher because you are unvaccinated and have COVID, than as a reaction to the shot.

My apologies. Perhaps we need to be more specific in order to make sure we are on the same page.

When you said you did the research and said that the benefits outweighed the risk which vaccine were you talking about? My understanding is that there are 4 major brands. Were you talking about the one that was pushed to us as safe and effective, and then banned? Or the one that was pushed safe and effective and then not recommended for anyone under 30? The same one that was recommended to be removed from the market in the US. Not sure if it happened. Or the ones that were not recommended at all for anyone under 18 or under 30 in Europe depending on the country?

I think if we are going to discuss this, we need to be specific. I was trying to be specific when I made the statement about age, and co morbidity when it came to making a statement that the benefits outweighing the risk.

Isreal had 1. Count that ONE! healthy child die of covid in their entire population. 3.2 million children. ONE healthy death of a child. So to pretend the risk and benefit is the same for everyone, or to misslead and simply not mention it with a blanket statement is not sensible discussion.

Could you be specific on which vaccine gave you those favorable numbers and where those numbers came from in your research?

[khedrei]

You've got to be kidding...absolute stupid comment. It's a lynching, bullying, call it what you like. Again, grow up and move on.

Actually I was kidding, you took it way too serious. Everyone knows you never lynch a person with less a 90% majority. 80% would be ridiculous.

I almost spit out my coffee when I read the first one. The second one....

I will say on the record though, I am in agreement with flyer, the mods said they wouldnt tolerate personal attacks. Though it doesn't seem to bother JerryRig much. He takes it better than most of the ones who insult him do.

[rando]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7835081/albe ... id-vaccine

Remember when this woman died from taking the AZ vaccine. Even her daughter drank the koolaid and defended the drug company. Many said “since she died from the vaccine, that means she would have died from Covid anyways”. Complete brainwashing and not factual. The only way for these people is to defend every vaccine to the death and deny any possibility that vaccines have risk. Dunning-Kruger

Have to wonder if the vaccine was mandated by her employer. Did she take the vaccine after a discussion of the risks and benefits with her doctor? Or did she take the vax to keep a pay cheque and told she needs to take it to keep her colleagues safe?

Do you think her daughter was vaccine exempt at her work? Do you think she was able to travel on a plane without it? After watching your mother die from the vaccine, was she told she needs her vax pass to have normal life freedoms? Would it be reasonable for a 19 year old to not want to take the risk of getting the vax?

[TG]

People have the ability do their own homework and choose if they believe someone's comments or not.

You cannot compare "Do their own homework" and years of studies and experience in a particular field.
Not going to start this debate again.

[averageatbest]

When it comes to virology/immunology, the layperson does not possess the requisite educational background, experience and mental capacity to understand the subject matter let alone the "ability to do their own homework". Thinking they do in the first place is the root of most of the problem. Those who do are literally the poster children for Dunning-Kruger.

The average person does not understand the physics of lift, procedures we follow, or the regulations we are governed by, but they still trust us, airline pilots, to get them to their destination safely.

I trust doctors to give me their service safely... in this case it is their recommendation of getting the vaccine.

[kgb531]

Please don't confuse high school educated plane drivers for medical specialists.
Passengers only place trust in said front seat occupants because of the higher level of trust in the engineers who designed the aircraft and the trade school educated who maintain them.

A GP is a mere family physician. They defer to the consensus of actual experts.

When it comes to virology/immunology, the layperson does not possess the requisite educational background, experience and mental capacity to understand the subject matter let alone the "ability to do their own homework". Thinking they do in the first place is the root of most of the problem. Those who do are literally the poster children for Dunning-Kruger.

The average person does not understand the physics of lift, procedures we follow, or the regulations we are governed by, but they still trust us, airline pilots, to get them to their destination safely.

I trust doctors to give me their service safely... in this case it is their recommendation of getting the vaccine.

[kgb531]

I remember that woman because she is the only Albertan who has died due to an adverse reaction.
I remember her because out of 4.4M Albertans and 10M doses given, she was the only one who died.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7835081/albe ... id-vaccine

Remember when this woman died from taking the AZ vaccine. Even her daughter drank the koolaid and defended the drug company. Many said “since she died from the vaccine, that means she would have died from Covid anyways”. Complete brainwashing and not factual. The only way for these people is to defend every vaccine to the death and deny any possibility that vaccines have risk. Dunning-Kruger

Have to wonder if the vaccine was mandated by her employer. Did she take the vaccine after a discussion of the risks and benefits with her doctor? Or did she take the vax to keep a pay cheque and told she needs to take it to keep her colleagues safe?

Do you think her daughter was vaccine exempt at her work? Do you think she was able to travel on a plane without it? After watching your mother die from the vaccine, was she told she needs her vax pass to have normal life freedoms? Would it be reasonable for a 19 year old to not want to take the risk of getting the vax?

[rando]

I remember that woman because she is the only Albertan who has died due to an adverse reaction.
I remember her because out of 4.4M Albertans and 10M doses given, she was the only one who died.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7835081/albe ... id-vaccine

Remember when this woman died from taking the AZ vaccine. Even her daughter drank the koolaid and defended the drug company. Many said “since she died from the vaccine, that means she would have died from Covid anyways”. Complete brainwashing and not factual. The only way for these people is to defend every vaccine to the death and deny any possibility that vaccines have risk. Dunning-Kruger

Have to wonder if the vaccine was mandated by her employer. Did she take the vaccine after a discussion of the risks and benefits with her doctor? Or did she take the vax to keep a pay cheque and told she needs to take it to keep her colleagues safe?

Do you think her daughter was vaccine exempt at her work? Do you think she was able to travel on a plane without it? After watching your mother die from the vaccine, was she told she needs her vax pass to have normal life freedoms? Would it be reasonable for a 19 year old to not want to take the risk of getting the vax?

4.4 million Albertans and took AZ?!

Wow, you so smrt! Thanks for that!

[kgb531]

Sorry. Didn't realize you needed a breakdown of each manufacturer. She is/was 1 of 315K Albertans and 1 of 2.8M in Canada who received Covishield.
Given that 75% of Canadian adults had a vaccination prior to any government or employer mandate, odds are she wasn't.

I remember that woman because she is the only Albertan who has died due to an adverse reaction.
I remember her because out of 4.4M Albertans and 10M doses given, she was the only one who died.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7835081/albe ... id-vaccine

Remember when this woman died from taking the AZ vaccine. Even her daughter drank the koolaid and defended the drug company. Many said “since she died from the vaccine, that means she would have died from Covid anyways”. Complete brainwashing and not factual. The only way for these people is to defend every vaccine to the death and deny any possibility that vaccines have risk. Dunning-Kruger

Have to wonder if the vaccine was mandated by her employer. Did she take the vaccine after a discussion of the risks and benefits with her doctor? Or did she take the vax to keep a pay cheque and told she needs to take it to keep her colleagues safe?

Do you think her daughter was vaccine exempt at her work? Do you think she was able to travel on a plane without it? After watching your mother die from the vaccine, was she told she needs her vax pass to have normal life freedoms? Would it be reasonable for a 19 year old to not want to take the risk of getting the vax?

4.4 million Albertans and took AZ?!

Wow, you so smrt! Thanks for that!

[khedrei]

Sorry. Didn't realize you needed a breakdown of each manufacturer. She is/was 1 of 315K Albertans and 1 of 2.8M in Canada who received Covishield.
Given that 75% of Canadian adults had a vaccination prior to any government or employer mandate, odds are she wasn't.

I remember that woman because she is the only Albertan who has died due to an adverse reaction.
I remember her because out of 4.4M Albertans and 10M doses given, she was the only one who died.

4.4 million Albertans and took AZ?!

Wow, you so smrt! Thanks for that!

25% isn't exactly unlikely. I see your point but I wouldnt bet on those odds.

[waterruddersup]

I don't agree with most of his posts, but I would strongly be against having him blocked from posting.

That is exactly the direction we are headed here in Canada -- Don't agree with someone, cancel them. Today, Covid. Tomorrow, who knows?

At the rate we are going, it will soon be a criminal offense to express a view different from the government one. And I don't mean on Covid. It's a dangerous direction.

You can see it coming. Let's not be a part of that.

Well said. Slippery slopes are not society's friend.

[rigpiggy]

What do you think? Is it time for JerryRig to have his posting rights revoked or is he our knight in shining armour?

So you would stifle free speech? Regardless of whether you like it or not, if you cut someone like JR, it wont be long until they come to stifle you.

[TG]

What do you think? Is it time for JerryRig to have his posting rights revoked or is he our knight in shining armour?

So you would stifle free speech? Regardless of whether you like it or not, if you cut someone like JR, it wont be long until they come to stifle you.

Every once in a while when I was a kiddo saying or doing pretty stupid stuff, shock! Horror! My mom would slap me!
Which would literally shut me up and put me back into reality.

Would that count at loosing free speech!?