Is WestJet an essential service, where the government can mandate striking pilots back to work?

[TheStig]

From a union email today, WJ/ALPA has a meeting with the CIRB on May 8th. WestJet is pulling the ‘pilots are an essential service’ card, rather than entertain the prospect of improving pay and conditions. They will have to show that a strike/lockout poses ‘an immediate or severe danger to the safety or health of the public’.
Truly pathetic the lengths they’ll go to in order to fight their own employee groups rather than face the new reality other airlines have woken up to.

Feels like just yesterday that air travel itself posed an immediate or severe danger to safety or health of the public. Nobody took issue with thousands of pilots out of the flight deck then.

[CanadaAir]

From a union email today, WJ/ALPA has a meeting with the CIRB on May 8th. WestJet is pulling the ‘pilots are an essential service’ card, rather than entertain the prospect of improving pay and conditions. They will have to show that a strike/lockout poses ‘an immediate or severe danger to the safety or health of the public’.
Truly pathetic the lengths they’ll go to in order to fight their own employee groups rather than face the new reality other airlines have woken up to.

Feels like just yesterday that air travel itself posed an immediate or severe danger to safety or health of the public. Nobody took issue with thousands of pilots out of the flight deck then.

This is important.
The pandemic shutdown proves that an air travel shut down will not collapse public health, public safety or the economy.

Often the past argument was that if WestJet or Air Canada stop, then the entire Canadian economy will collapse.
This was proved not to be the case for a year and half long shutdown.

Porter was entirely shutdown for 2 years. It didn't collapse the economy of Toronto or of Ontario.
Porter didn't go out of business.
No 705 went out of business during the pandemic.
When aircraft don't fly, the fuel isn't used & the airline costs decrease.
If the staff don't work, they aren't paid & the airline costs decrease.
There are a few costs that continue

There're smaller 705 with their operations temporarily closed by Transport Canada until conditions were met. These airlines didn't go out of business.

An airline shutdown doesn't mean the economy will collapse or the airline collapse.
Its a pause in operations, and a pause in profit.

The pause in profit is what affects the shareholders, this is the pressure of a strike.
If the shareholders start losing profit, they start questioning the management & board running the airline.

If the shareholders don't see the management solving the issues, then the CEO, board and senior managers are replaced.


On top, this isn't a shutdown of the whole Canadian airline industry. This is only a partial shutdown of one company. Encore and Sunwing can continue to operate, WestJet has plenty of other options to arrange travel for passengers including chartering other airlines.

Every Swoop and Mainline WestJet destination has at least 2 other 705 airlines doing flights at the airport. WestJet isn't essential as passengers have at least 2 other options.
WestJet has the option to rebook existing passengers on these other airlines.

Passengers can continue to travel.

[rando]

Air travel didn't shut down for covid.

There was lots of work to do on the freight side. Had all flying in Canada actually shut down it would cripple the economy. The reason porter could shut down with no impact is the passengers they serve no longer required travel during the plandemic. That is a small fraction of the market.

[CanadaAir]

Air travel didn't shut down for covid.

There was lots of work to do on the freight side. Had all flying in Canada actually shut down it would cripple the economy. The reason porter could shut down with no impact is the passengers they serve no longer required travel during the plandemic. That is a small fraction of the market.

The above post's referring to passenger travel and large city travel, not cargo or remote flying.

Passenger travel almost halted, the data shows many large cities having only a few commercial flights a day.
There were many flights less than half full.

No it wasn't a full shut down, but it was close enough to one. It showed that this type of large city passenger air travel isn't essential.
It's undesirable, annoying or a lower standard to what we are used, its a large inconvenience. Might have to drive or rail across the country.
But it's not critical to the continuation of the economy. The economy won't collapse if this one segment of air travel is stopped.

For the upcoming WestJet strike, there are many options available for passengers who want to travel from those destinations.
With access to Encore, Sunwing and other carriers, WestJet will have more seats available than they flew at the base of the pandemic.

[Canadaflyer46]

WJ management know full well we’re not providing an ‘essential service’. This is no more than a thinly veiled stalling tactic for the inevitable strike. Hopefully the CIRB shuts the bullshit down right away and doesn’t give in to managements desire to kick the can down the road all summer with hearing dates.

[CanadaAir]

WJ MEC publicized in the news the potential strike date 2 months in advance, with repeated news releases. Time for most the public to not book or rebook.

Noting this strike isn't scheduled over winter holidays, summer holidays or spring break. School is still on. This strike isn’t trying to cancel family vacations.

If WestJet management wants to drag this into the summer and cause vacation disruption, it shows how the company management has changed from valuing the passengers. Not the WJ of the past, not the WJ pilots want.

[CanadaAir]

Encore's operating, so the regional flying to smaller more remote cities can be done.
Encore can be used on short distance mainline routes YYZ YUL, YYC YVR.

Long distance flying YYZ YYC YVR can be rebooked on Air Canada, Jazz, Flair, Lynx, Porter or connecting through the US.

5 Canadian carriers other than WJ doing these routes, then add the airlines through the states.

[ant_321]

Encore's operating, so the regional flying to smaller more remote cities can be done.
Encore can be used on short distance mainline routes YYZ YUL, YYC YVR.

Long distance flying YYZ YYC YVR can be rebooked on Air Canada, Jazz, Flair, Lynx, Porter or connecting through the US.

5 Canadian carriers other than WJ doing these routes, then add the airlines through the states.

Canadaair im trying to figure out the point of your posts. You just post random information without making a point.

[JHR]

I think his point is that WJ is not essential. There are many other options.

[TheStig]

Air travel didn't shut down for covid.

There was lots of work to do on the freight side. Had all flying in Canada actually shut down it would cripple the economy. The reason porter could shut down with no impact is the passengers they serve no longer required travel during the plandemic. That is a small fraction of the market.

Air travel in Canada won’t shut down if Westjet pilots walk off the job, not sure what your point is? Westjet’s pilots account for what? 15% of passenger traffic in Canada?

When ACPA had a strike mandate in 2012 all signs pointed to Federal back to work legislation which had already been utilized by the Harper Government. The federal Liberals have shown no such inclination.

A Westjet pilot strike will be a massive inconvenience for thousands of travellers (much like the summer/Christmas travel chaos) and there will be lots of criticism towards the Government. However this is a private company negotiating with a Union. The governments opportunity to put their hand on the scale is now (and over the past couple of months). AC knew that back to work legislation under very favourable terms would be enacted and never meaningfully negotiated after a failed TA, if WJ’s executives haven’t had similar conversations on Parliament Hill they should be frantically trying to reach an agreement.

[bobcaygeon]

In addition to the JT/JS combo in power now, in 2015 the Supreme Court of Canada made a ruling that struck down the "essential services" card for all but a very small group of workers. https://canliiconnects.org/fr/r%C3%A9sum%C3%A9/35654

In the case of the recent PSAC strike, approx 35,000 employees were deemed essential and PSAC didn't even attempt to dispute it as doing so would their meagre public support would drop to zero if they started affecting Canadian's CPP/OAS,EI, CTB payments and applications.


Saskatchewan Federation of Labour c. Saskatchewan, 2015 CSC 4 (CanLII), [2015] 1 RCS 245

[hithere]

Any news on how WJ management’s attempt to have WJ declared essential before the CIRB went today?

[accountant]

100% Westjet is essential.

How else do you get on a bus from Calgary to Regina since Greyhound stopped operating?

Send those lazy pilots back to work. Give them their 2% and let them eat cake.

[hithere]

That was not helpful in answering my question

[Oleo 4]

Nothing much useful comes from ‘accountants’ posts. He sounds and writes like a pissed off teenager who had his ball stolen from him. For whatever reason he seems hell bent on posting throughout all forums on all things WestJet without any intellectual capacity for fact or reason. My guess is he used to work here or was let go and now grinds his axe.

I’ll stop feeding the trolls now.

CIRB was meeting tonight to discuss the matter, by the time of my flight I hadn’t heard any updates. The question they need to answer isn’t if we are essential or not, but if they require oral hearings in late summer to discuss this. We all know we are not essential. We were critical in Covid for international travel only.

[accountant]

Let's see.... when you pull out of a market and leave it to AC, AC becomes essentially, especially without a ground link.

When AC does the same, you become essential.

Like it or not, your corporate overlords have made air travel links to certain regions essential given the pullout of AC on some routes, greyhound service, you name it.

You don't need to feed the trolls. There's enough food to go around with pilot missteps along this process.

Carry on.

[TheLastonetoknow]

Let's see.... when you pull out of a market and leave it to AC, AC becomes essentially, especially without a ground link.

When AC does the same, you become essential.

Like it or not, your corporate overlords have made air travel links to certain regions essential given the pullout of AC on some routes, greyhound service, you name it.

You don't need to feed the trolls. There's enough food to go around with pilot missteps along this process.

Carry on.

Back to the big top you go…

[200Above]

A reminder that you can add accountant to your foe list.

You won't have to read his posts. I'm all for hearing both sides, but he's obviously trolling and looking for conflict.

Best thing I did this morning.

[accountant]

A reminder that you can add accountant to your foe list.

You won't have to read his posts. I'm all for hearing both sides, but he's obviously trolling and looking for conflict.

Best thing I did this morning.

Just another pilot who can't handle the truth. I know you all like to live in your bubbles.

[CanadaAir]

"The Canada Industrial Relations Board recently issued a decision reaffirming its position with respect to essential employees and the maintenance of activities in the event of a strike or a lock-out.

"the Board outlined important principles for employers to remember as they prepare for bargaining and advise the union which of their employees and services are essential:

• The test for essential employees and services is to "prevent an immediate and serious danger to the safety or health of the public" (emphasis in original). Other issues, though they may be in the public interest, do not concern the Board.
  
  The obligation to maintain the health and safety of the public must be balanced with the commitment to free collective bargaining, set out in the preamble of the Canada Labour Code.
  
  As a result of this balancing, "any abridgement of the right to strike must be to the minimum level required to cautiously protect the health and safety of the public" (emphasis in original).
  
  It is not required that public danger be imminent, or that there be an immediate threat of accident. "It is the danger which must be prevented and not the actual occurrence."
  
  The burden of proof to demonstrate that activities and employees who perform them must continue during a work stoppage is with the employer.

[CanadaAir]

In addition to the JT/JS combo in power now, in 2015 the Supreme Court of Canada made a ruling that struck down the "essential services" card for all but a very small group of workers. https://canliiconnects.org/fr/r%C3%A9sum%C3%A9/35654

In the case of the recent PSAC strike, approx 35,000 employees were deemed essential and PSAC didn't even attempt to dispute it as doing so would their meagre public support would drop to zero if they started affecting Canadian's CPP/OAS,EI, CTB payments and applications.


Saskatchewan Federation of Labour c. Saskatchewan, 2015 CSC 4 (CanLII), [2015] 1 RCS 245

Valid. Thanks.

Recent court & CIRB cases show the use of essential work to stop a strike is limited.

WJ should have difficulty proving this.

WJ ALPA pilots can continue to strike while WJ's with CIRB.

CIRB cant force pilots back to work or stop a strike, this is done by MPs.

Liberals have minority. Liberals & Conservative support to force back to work. Not the CIRB.

WJ can try to delay strike to gain advantage over pilots.

[CanadaAir]

It is my understanding that the 72 hour strike notice can be given on the 13th at 1 minute past midnight (i.e. tonight). I'm not sure whether the CIRB thing will hold things back or not, it was a last ditch deperate attempt by the company just like the Sunwing wet lease which they did a 180 on within hours. Absolute desperate tactics we're seeing now.
There is some uncertainty and discussion among the pilot group on whether we can press on with a strike notice despite the CIRB giving WJ an extra week to submit additional documentaion. We will find out very soon!

The company isn't ready for a strike.
The more time the company has to prepare it will benefit WJ.
WJ management shows lack of ability if they can't keep it running.
If management has extra time they can catch up to pilots.

Company will try to drag this out. File more with CIRB and legal, until the pilots lose strength.

Pilots position weakens extending the strike date.

[Canadaflyer46]

CIRB issue now closed. Union email just came out. We are not deemed essential and can strike as early as May 16th.

[CanadaAir]

,

[CanadaAir]

Recent petition to the government to make WestJet essential



"On May 11, Jason Aebig of the Greater Saskatoon Chamber of Commerce wrote to Canada's Minister of Labour Seamus O'Regan to express concerns about what a strike would do to the business community.

"A strike or lockout would take Saskatoon off the radar – crippling our visitor economy and making inbound and outbound travel more expensive and difficult overnight," read the letter.

"Aebig claimed Saskatoon's visitor economy would crumble, with conferences, events, hotels and restaurants taking the brunt of the impact.

"The Chamber called on the government to have contingencies in place, saying the minister could send a strong message to the travelling public and cities that will feel the impacts of a work stoppage.

"Minister O'Regan is currently at the bargaining table with both parties.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9701990/west ... s-concern/

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/news/l ... r-AA1bhjNf


The Saskatchewan government is concerned that a strike or lockout would cripple the visitor economy and make travel more expensive. It has sent a letter to the federal government calling on Ottawa to bring the two sides back to the bargaining table.

“You know we don’t want to see a disruption that’s going to have an economic impact whether that be for businesses, whether that be in the tourism sector,” minister of trade and export development Jeremy Harrison said.

Saskatchewan believes the federal government needs to look at the situation from a long-term perspective, possibly declaring airlines an essential service.

https://regina.ctvnews.ca/sask-westjet- ... -1.6402196


On Wednesday, Transport Minister Omar Alghabra encouraged the two sides to reach a resolution, noting a federal mediator is on the ground.

"I do not want to put my finger on the scale," he said. "Obviously the airlines have obligations towards their customers. But ultimately the biggest obligation is to make sure that they deliver the service that they sold to customers."