New payscale

[RippleRock]

Did you guys negotiate overseas premiums, night premiums, or nav premiums for the 787? If you didn't the rates aren't significantly different than our top widebody rates currently in place as of April 2023.

American pilots get a $6.50 an hour premium to fly to Canada. Strange, but the got it.

I agree, the 4-year flat pay at AC is an abomination and an insult. Thanks ACPA. That "crapshow of collusion" is going to "keep giving" for a decade or so until we're washed clean of it.

Never forget we -are no more- than a "cost unit" to either Company. Any compensation we get is "hush money", meant to keep us in line. If zero would keep us in place, you can bet 1000% that we would get exactly zero.

[truedude]

Gave up striking at the 11th hour for this.

Terrible PCP. Those FO rates are at least. $20-$25/hr short of anywhere close to industry standard PCP.

I'd like to point you to Air Canada's disgusting four year flat pay. That is by far one of the most disgusting things in this industry. It is sickening that it was ever considered okay to do that.

Agreed. But you should be aiming higher than trying to out do a ten year old contract.

Well I am just an observer in this conversation, as I don't work for Westjet. But considering a large number of AC pilots were bottom end Westjet and Swoop pilots, this might dry out a source of pilots. And if you aren't living in your parents basements and have actual bills to pay, might make it more difficult for AC to attract pilots. At least I hope that is the case.

[airbussy]

I hope this is enough to do that. Going to be hard for someone to justify going to AC now and making $60-80/hr for three years. It's the rest of the FO rates that might be hard to justify for someone long term over AC given the opportunity for faster upgrades and WB FO flying pretty early in your career.

[Ash Ketchum]

I'd like to point you to Air Canada's disgusting four year flat pay. That is by far one of the most disgusting things in this industry. It is sickening that it was ever considered okay to do that.

Agreed. But you should be aiming higher than trying to out do a ten year old contract.

Well I am just an observer in this conversation, as I don't work for Westjet. But considering a large number of AC pilots were bottom end Westjet and Swoop pilots, this might dry out a source of pilots. And if you aren't living in your parents basements and have actual bills to pay, might make it more difficult for AC to attract pilots. At least I hope that is the case.

Exactly, hoping this increase in pay will force AC to get rid of flat pay to increase recruiting so that I can finally stop using my HELOC to pay the bills.

[porcsord]

so that I can finally stop using my HELOC to pay the bills

That is terrifying.

[TFTMB heavy]

Stop comparing these rates with Delta and AA, not a fair comparison, very different operations.

Tons of new language in this contract and a scope. That scope is most likely worth more than the new money in the contract.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Stop comparing these rates with Delta and AA, not a fair comparison, very different operations.

Tons of new language in this contract and a scope. That scope is most likely worth more than the new money in the contract.

Two are airlines and the other is an IT company?

[Pirep1234]

Agreed. But you should be aiming higher than trying to out do a ten year old contract.

Well I am just an observer in this conversation, as I don't work for Westjet. But considering a large number of AC pilots were bottom end Westjet and Swoop pilots, this might dry out a source of pilots. And if you aren't living in your parents basements and have actual bills to pay, might make it more difficult for AC to attract pilots. At least I hope that is the case.

Exactly, hoping this increase in pay will force AC to get rid of flat pay to increase recruiting so that I can finally stop using my HELOC to pay the bills.

Unlikely, AC can lower the pay to $50k and increase flat pay to 6 years and they will still fully staff ground school. #flytheflag

[RippleRock]

Well I am just an observer in this conversation, as I don't work for Westjet. But considering a large number of AC pilots were bottom end Westjet and Swoop pilots, this might dry out a source of pilots. And if you aren't living in your parents basements and have actual bills to pay, might make it more difficult for AC to attract pilots. At least I hope that is the case.

Exactly, hoping this increase in pay will force AC to get rid of flat pay to increase recruiting so that I can finally stop using my HELOC to pay the bills.

Unlikely, AC can lower the pay to $50k and increase flat pay to 6 years and they will still fully staff ground school. #flytheflag

You're rather new here, like extrememly new. Are you trying to make a point?

There is no way our contract WACON and new hire terms, by extension, are going in ANY direction but up. I think every new hire is perfectly aware of that fact. They are ready for change just like every other pilot on the property. They are joining in anticipation of that pay bump, NOT in spite of it.

Four years of flat pay are a travesty and a purposeful insult that will end within the year. Read the writing on the wall. It's not complicated.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Does have a valid point regarding AC not having difficulty to attract new hires. However, pay will go up and more than likely higher than westjet. Things can only get better.

[RippleRock]

.....and everyone knows it. No more than those in the hiring pool.


The insanity of "dead last in the business" 1st year McDonalds shift manager wages for 777 FO's. That joke is ending hard, and quickly. It's a "glitch in the Matrix" that's about to crash into the wall of reality.

[TFTMB heavy]

Stop comparing these rates with Delta and AA, not a fair comparison, very different operations.

Tons of new language in this contract and a scope. That scope is most likely worth more than the new money in the contract.

Two are airlines and the other is an IT company?

I don't understand you question.

[fish4life]

Hopefully we can beat these rates then in 3 1/2 years when WJ is up again for negots they can pass us and we can finally do what the Americans have been doing for years

[Joe Blow Schmo]

Why is step 3 787 FO lower than step 3 737 FO? All the other 787 steps are higher than their equivalent 737 step.

[airbussy]

Why is step 3 787 FO lower than step 3 737 FO? All the other 787 steps are higher than their equivalent 737 step.

Yeah I just noticed that. Typo?

[throwawaycorporate]

Are these posted rates then subject to 9.1% on top?

Is the pension 10% again on top of the rate +9.1%?

[airbussy]

Based on my quick calculations, the posted rates look to include the 9.1%. If it was 15.5% the numbers would be quite a bit lower. The 10% pension contribution is entirely separate.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Stop comparing these rates with Delta and AA, not a fair comparison, very different operations.

Tons of new language in this contract and a scope. That scope is most likely worth more than the new money in the contract.

Two are airlines and the other is an IT company?

I don't understand you question.

WestJet management is in the habit of telling us that WestJet is not an airline; it's an IT company.

[Tolip]

These new pay scales are horrible, with the change of the WSP program, it actually looks like year over year pilots will actually be taking a pay CUT, because I honestly cannot understand what they have written for the WSP section, it seems unsettlingly confusing and not written well. These new pay scales will have 737 year one FOs TAKING home 62K a year... that is horrible, it will take a WJ FO 5 years to earn a livable wage with the company. A 15.5 % raise is just a match for inflation, and then with 2% year over year for the remainder of the contract, by its end pilots will be SUFFERInG all over again. The number one priority of any contract negotiations HAS to be wages, and this contract does nothing for that.Thia will still have new FOs eating at food banks. Shame on alpa for accepting these rates, they had a mandate to close the gap with the north american standard contract, this does not do that. And I hope to god WJ know there worth enough to vote this down.

[Nashbandicoot]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

[Tolip]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

There is a MASSIVE pilot deficit in canada, no pilot needs to worry about not having space to fly.. quite the contrary we need to worry that we are flying TOO much, and get relief from over working. And get PAID for our work, this AIP is a complete waste of the best negotiating power we have had in I dont even know how long.. and what did they secure? Kill off swoop... in THREE years? Which honestly who knows what will even happen there.. meanwhile pilots are still eating at food banks and living with their parents until they get to year 5 FO pay..its disgraceful. our new pay scales bearly beat Flairs, that is actually crazy that the WJ union with all that was said over the last several months accepted a bare minimum inflationary adjustment, that is essentially the exact same as flair. Matching flairs contract should ha e been the STARTING point for negotiations.. and WJ alpa only managed to get a MATCH after 9 months of negotiations.. how..? Like actually, how does that happen.

[throwawaycorporate]

Based on my quick calculations, the posted rates look to include the 9.1%. If it was 15.5% the numbers would be quite a bit lower. The 10% pension contribution is entirely separate.

I think you’re right

Current/Old: $64.92 * 1.20 = $77.90
Proposed/new: $81.81 * 1.10 = $89.99

For exactly a 15.5% lift

[Blackdog0301]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

There is a MASSIVE pilot deficit in canada, no pilot needs to worry about not having space to fly.. quite the contrary we need to worry that we are flying TOO much, and get relief from over working. And get PAID for our work, this AIP is a complete waste of the best negotiating power we have had in I dont even know how long.. and what did they secure? Kill off swoop... in THREE years? Which honestly who knows what will even happen there.. meanwhile pilots are still eating at food banks and living with their parents until they get to year 5 FO pay..its disgraceful. our new pay scales bearly beat Flairs, that is actually crazy that the WJ union with all that was said over the last several months accepted a bare minimum inflationary adjustment, that is essentially the exact same as flair. Matching flairs contract should ha e been the STARTING point for negotiations.. and WJ alpa only managed to get a MATCH after 9 months of negotiations.. how..? Like actually, how does that happen.

Your understanding of this TA is about as pathetic as your ability to form proper sentences.

[Tolip]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

There is a MASSIVE pilot deficit in canada, no pilot needs to worry about not having space to fly.. quite the contrary we need to worry that we are flying TOO much, and get relief from over working. And get PAID for our work, this AIP is a complete waste of the best negotiating power we have had in I dont even know how long.. and what did they secure? Kill off swoop... in THREE years? Which honestly who knows what will even happen there.. meanwhile pilots are still eating at food banks and living with their parents until they get to year 5 FO pay..its disgraceful. our new pay scales bearly beat Flairs, that is actually crazy that the WJ union with all that was said over the last several months accepted a bare minimum inflationary adjustment, that is essentially the exact same as flair. Matching flairs contract should ha e been the STARTING point for negotiations.. and WJ alpa only managed to get a MATCH after 9 months of negotiations.. how..? Like actually, how does that happen.

Your understanding of this TA is about as pathetic as your ability to form proper sentences.

I'm not attacking anyone personally. Im sharing my thoughts on this new TA, just like everyone else. Stop spending your energies on petty attacks. And if something I've said is against your understanding of the contract, please elaborate. If not, good day.

[maverick12]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

There is a MASSIVE pilot deficit in canada, no pilot needs to worry about not having space to fly.. quite the contrary we need to worry that we are flying TOO much, and get relief from over working. And get PAID for our work, this AIP is a complete waste of the best negotiating power we have had in I dont even know how long.. and what did they secure? Kill off swoop... in THREE years? Which honestly who knows what will even happen there.. meanwhile pilots are still eating at food banks and living with their parents until they get to year 5 FO pay..its disgraceful. our new pay scales bearly beat Flairs, that is actually crazy that the WJ union with all that was said over the last several months accepted a bare minimum inflationary adjustment, that is essentially the exact same as flair. Matching flairs contract should ha e been the STARTING point for negotiations.. and WJ alpa only managed to get a MATCH after 9 months of negotiations.. how..? Like actually, how does that happen.

WJ pilots eating at food banks with their wages? Yeah I’ll take things that didn’t happen for 3 dollars. And if they did, I’m calling incredibly poor financial sense in their part. Also Swoop is gone by next year, not 4 years. Read the AIP properly or don’t both posting such drivel, it’s embarrassing. And get your PPL in the meantime.