Sky regional 2.0

[flyinhigh]

Im one of those people described and I'm leaving

Congrats. Where you off to if you don’t mind me asking?

[cdnavater]

Im one of those people described and I'm leaving

Congrats. Where you off to if you don’t mind me asking?

Currently over in WJ thread asking for interview advice, I’m guessing he/she/they just made the decision to apply elsewhere.
I’m stuck, too old to start over but to be honest, I would stay anyway. The pension is the biggest hurdle, partly to the being too old to offset the loss of the pension.
I certainly don’t blame anyone under 45 for exploring options, closer to 50 the way our industry works, the low pay is a big setback.
With the new WJ pay, it would take 9 years to get back to where I’d be by then assuming no changes but 5 years to get back to where I am now, leaving 5ish years of basically breaking even assuming the Captain upgrade stays at 10 years but without growth anyone starting at WJ is likely looking at 15 years realistically.

[Little Star]

If PAL leases Q4s from CHR and starts flying for AC...

In the meant time, CHR transitions to "asset light leasing" and becomes an asset management company.

Who has money to buy all these Q4s but needs someone with experience to manage these assets? How about companies like Brookfield?

Who is an advisor to Brookfield Asset Management? Ask Siri or Google.

[truedude]

If PAL leases Q4s from CHR and starts flying for AC...

In the meant time, CHR transitions to "asset light leasing" and becomes an asset management company.

Who has money to buy all these Q4s but needs someone with experience to manage these assets? How about companies like Brookfield?

Who is an advisor to Brookfield Asset Management? Ask Siri or Google.

What's your point? Does nothing to fix the regional feed for mainline. Now PAL and Jazz are both trying to hire the same pilots. Like robbing Peter to pay Paul. They still need to fix the fundamental problem to attracting pilots at the regional level. And that is pay.

[NovaBoy]

PAL has one thing going for them…..the much coveted YHZ base. I’m betting there are more than a few commuters taking a hard look at that.

[truedude]

PAL has one thing going for them…..the much coveted YHZ base. I’m betting there are more than a few commuters taking a hard look at that.

Which then kills Jazz more, along with everyone in YYC going to Westjet because no one has any faith in Jazz or AC actually dealing with the issues. All they do is keep making the problem worse with their stupidity.

[kiaszceski]

PAL has one thing going for them…..the much coveted YHZ base. I’m betting there are more than a few commuters taking a hard look at that.

Which then kills Jazz more, along with everyone in YYC going to Westjet because no one has any faith in Jazz or AC actually dealing with the issues. All they do is keep making the problem worse with their stupidity.

They are making the problem worse for those staying. But they are creating opportunities for those leaving.
Pick your side.

[goleafsgo]

PAL has one thing going for them…..the much coveted YHZ base. I’m betting there are more than a few commuters taking a hard look at that.

Which then kills Jazz more, along with everyone in YYC going to Westjet because no one has any faith in Jazz or AC actually dealing with the issues. All they do is keep making the problem worse with their stupidity.

Not to mention Porter scooping up a lot of the embraer guys in YYZ and now YUL. Jazz is bleeding from all sides

[rudder]

PAL has one thing going for them…..the much coveted YHZ base. I’m betting there are more than a few commuters taking a hard look at that.

Which then kills Jazz more, along with everyone in YYC going to Westjet because no one has any faith in Jazz or AC actually dealing with the issues. All they do is keep making the problem worse with their stupidity.

Not to mention Porter scooping up a lot of the embraer guys in YYZ and now YUL. Jazz is bleeding from all sides

What has Jazz done in the last 12 months to demonstrate that it wants to attract and retain pilots?

[truedude]

Which then kills Jazz more, along with everyone in YYC going to Westjet because no one has any faith in Jazz or AC actually dealing with the issues. All they do is keep making the problem worse with their stupidity.

Not to mention Porter scooping up a lot of the embraer guys in YYZ and now YUL. Jazz is bleeding from all sides

What has Jazz done in the last 12 months to demonstrate that it wants to attract and retain pilots?

They keep hiring, and offer more spots per ground school seats to ensure they keep getting classes of 20.

They just think they can keep doing the same thing as they have for 40 years. They think the situation is temporary. They are idiots, and their schedule ans network is suffering.

But not to worry, PAL is just doing extra flying, not taking away our flying. Even though they will be flying the same routes. And that we are already doing 17% less than last summer.

Give it another month and we will see a massive reduction in August.

[haironfire]

If Jazz seriously wants to make it more desirable to hire maybe they should look at their asinine policy about a lottery during GS to decide what base and airplane equipment you will employed on. This is the reason I would NEVER leave a good job to go to an unknown and possibly impossible working environment. At least at the other airlines (except AC) you can make an informed decision on whether it is worth going there.

[Little Star]

If PAL leases Q4s from CHR and starts flying for AC...

In the meant time, CHR transitions to "asset light leasing" and becomes an asset management company.

Who has money to buy all these Q4s but needs someone with experience to manage these assets? How about companies like Brookfield?

Who is an advisor to Brookfield Asset Management? Ask Siri or Google.

What's your point? Does nothing to fix the regional feed for mainline. Now PAL and Jazz are both trying to hire the same pilots. Like robbing Peter to pay Paul. They still need to fix the fundamental problem to attracting pilots at the regional level. And that is pay.

To answer your question, Calin still wins.

[rudder]

If PAL leases Q4s from CHR and starts flying for AC...

In the meant time, CHR transitions to "asset light leasing" and becomes an asset management company.

Who has money to buy all these Q4s but needs someone with experience to manage these assets? How about companies like Brookfield?

Who is an advisor to Brookfield Asset Management? Ask Siri or Google.

What's your point? Does nothing to fix the regional feed for mainline. Now PAL and Jazz are both trying to hire the same pilots. Like robbing Peter to pay Paul. They still need to fix the fundamental problem to attracting pilots at the regional level. And that is pay.

To answer your question, Calin still wins.

If there is a lower bidder, AC will gravitate in that direction.

Plus, this gives AC an opportunity to ‘audition’ PAL to see if they would like to extend or expand the relationship after 2025.

[Little Star]

PAL will be well positioned to fly the ES-30 in 2028 under the AC Express banner rather than a “code share” partner.

[CaptDukeNukem]

PAL will be well positioned to fly the ES-30 in 2028 under the AC Express banner rather than a “code share” partner.

Lol. That aircraft ain’t getting off the ground by 2050.

But don’t discount PAL. Rudder is right, AC goes to the low bidder. It’s been done before countless times and will continue to cycle through “cost effectiveness” when it comes to airlines.

Pilots got scared at a vulnerable time and Signing a 17 year contract was the stupidest idea anyone could possibly dream up in aviation. Good luck trying to squeeze blood from a stone.

[Little Star]

That’s right. AC will gravitate towards the lowest bidder. Hence, I was wrong. It won’t be PAL flying them. It will be Air Borealis up gauging to a 30 seater.

In case you didn’t know, Exchange Income Fund has increased the size of their bought deal treasury offering of common shares at $52.25. They may not need to lease their aircraft from CHR.

[CaptDukeNukem]

That’s right. AC will gravitate towards the lowest bidder. Hence, I was wrong. It won’t be PAL flying them. It will be Air Borealis up gauging to a 30 seater.

In case you didn’t know, Exchange Income Fund has increased the size of their bought deal treasury offering of common shares at $52.25. They may not need to lease their aircraft from CHR.

I’m not exactly sure of your point here….

When has EIC leased aircraft from chorus?

[runway29]

That’s right. AC will gravitate towards the lowest bidder. Hence, I was wrong. It won’t be PAL flying them. It will be Air Borealis up gauging to a 30 seater.

In case you didn’t know, Exchange Income Fund has increased the size of their bought deal treasury offering of common shares at $52.25. They may not need to lease their aircraft from CHR.

Not sure where you got that from. We're starting the operation as early as next month (Halifax base is scheduled to open in August though) with a daily run from St Johns to Halifax. I can tell you for sure Borealis is not involved and they're sticking to flying Twotters out of Goose.
As for where the Q's are coming from, It's unknown at the moment whether we are leasing or buying them off CHR.

[truedude]

That’s right. AC will gravitate towards the lowest bidder. Hence, I was wrong. It won’t be PAL flying them. It will be Air Borealis up gauging to a 30 seater.

In case you didn’t know, Exchange Income Fund has increased the size of their bought deal treasury offering of common shares at $52.25. They may not need to lease their aircraft from CHR.

Not sure where you got that from. We're starting the operation as early as next month (Halifax base is scheduled to open in August though) with a daily run from St Johns to Halifax. I can tell you for sure Borealis is not involved and they're sticking to flying Twotters out of Goose.
As for where the Q's are coming from, It's unknown at the moment whether we are leasing or buying them off CHR.

The second any agreement is officially signed, Jazz ALPA begins all and any legal challenges available to them.

[rudder]

If Jazz seriously wants to make it more desirable to hire maybe they should look at their asinine policy about a lottery during GS to decide what base and airplane equipment you will employed on. This is the reason I would NEVER leave a good job to go to an unknown and possibly impossible working environment. At least at the other airlines (except AC) you can make an informed decision on whether it is worth going there.

While Jazz cannot guarantee equipment (unless they specifically manage ground school offers to contain a single fleet type) there is nothing stopping Jazz from guaranteeing Base on an initial course.

All they have to do is say “We are offering you a spot in an initial GS starting xx yyy, 2023. All positions on this course will be (pick one - YUL/YYZ/YYC/YVR) based”. If it means running more frequent but smaller initial courses then so be it.

There is a big difference between unwilling and unable. And Jazz should understand that it is a sellers market out there (unless you are a 250 hour bare commercial candidate).

[digits_]

If Jazz seriously wants to make it more desirable to hire maybe they should look at their asinine policy about a lottery during GS to decide what base and airplane equipment you will employed on. This is the reason I would NEVER leave a good job to go to an unknown and possibly impossible working environment. At least at the other airlines (except AC) you can make an informed decision on whether it is worth going there.

While Jazz cannot guarantee equipment (unless they specifically manage ground school offers to contain a single fleet type) there is nothing stopping Jazz from guaranteeing Base on an initial course.

All they have to do is say “We are offering you a spot in an initial GS starting xx yyy, 2023. All positions on this course will be (pick one - YUL/YYZ/YYC/YVR) based”. If it means running more frequent but smaller initial courses then so be it.

There is a big difference between unwilling and unable. And Jazz should understand that it is a sellers market out there (unless you are a 250 hour bare commercial candidate).

You could always take a few days off at your current job, and walk out of the GS if the base and type doesn't suit you. If it happens a few times, I'm sure they'll adjust. Or maybe not, they might start overbooking GS expecting people to quit on day 2. It is an airline after all.

[goleafsgo]

They tell you in the interview that you could be awarded any of the bases and types. If anyone has a problem with that they don’t have to accept the job offer. It’s not like it’s a surprise when you show up for groundschool. At least it’s not 2 weeks until you know like AC

[digits_]

They tell you in the interview that you could be awarded any of the bases and types. If anyone has a problem with that they don’t have to accept the job offer.

If the company would have a problem with people leaving after day 2 once they find out their base and equipment, then they could always determine that info sooner

In discussions like these, pilots are expected to behave professional. The same standards are seldom applied to the company. It's safe to say the company's behaviour won't change without an external stimulant.

[truedude]

If Jazz seriously wants to make it more desirable to hire maybe they should look at their asinine policy about a lottery during GS to decide what base and airplane equipment you will employed on. This is the reason I would NEVER leave a good job to go to an unknown and possibly impossible working environment. At least at the other airlines (except AC) you can make an informed decision on whether it is worth going there.

While Jazz cannot guarantee equipment (unless they specifically manage ground school offers to contain a single fleet type) there is nothing stopping Jazz from guaranteeing Base on an initial course.

All they have to do is say “We are offering you a spot in an initial GS starting xx yyy, 2023. All positions on this course will be (pick one - YUL/YYZ/YYC/YVR) based”. If it means running more frequent but smaller initial courses then so be it.

There is a big difference between unwilling and unable. And Jazz should understand that it is a sellers market out there (unless you are a 250 hour bare commercial candidate).

You could always take a few days off at your current job, and walk out of the GS if the base and type doesn't suit you. If it happens a few times, I'm sure they'll adjust. Or maybe not, they might start overbooking GS expecting people to quit on day 2. It is an airline after all.

They already extend more offers than spots, expecting people not to show. And they still didn't manage to get 20 last week.

[digits_]

While Jazz cannot guarantee equipment (unless they specifically manage ground school offers to contain a single fleet type) there is nothing stopping Jazz from guaranteeing Base on an initial course.

All they have to do is say “We are offering you a spot in an initial GS starting xx yyy, 2023. All positions on this course will be (pick one - YUL/YYZ/YYC/YVR) based”. If it means running more frequent but smaller initial courses then so be it.

There is a big difference between unwilling and unable. And Jazz should understand that it is a sellers market out there (unless you are a 250 hour bare commercial candidate).

You could always take a few days off at your current job, and walk out of the GS if the base and type doesn't suit you. If it happens a few times, I'm sure they'll adjust. Or maybe not, they might start overbooking GS expecting people to quit on day 2. It is an airline after all.

They already extend more offers than spots, expecting people not to show. And they still didn't manage to get 20 last week.

Yikes!

Overbooking their training slots. Impressive....
Maybe they can make some money of reselling their unused training slots?