Bede, seems to think that Sunwing Captains will be position and base protected. Not sure YQB, YUL bases are safe though. WS has not had much luck being accepted by Quebec'ers, so not sure how likely keeping those pilot bases will be post "merger".
Bede is the WJ merger chair. He knows what he it talking about.
Cjet
As a Sunwing pilot I am very glad to hear that. Bede is often the mature voice of reason in threads full of childish rants. Im glad our guys won’t be sitting across the table from one of the “those assholes belong on the bottom of the list” guys I’ve seen posting on social media.
As a WJ pilot I don't feel that that is the majority attitude of the group. I haven't heard anyone refer to SW pilots in that manner, quite the opposite actually. There will be a desire for us to protect ourselves somewhat, as there will be a similar desire amongst SW pilots.
Bede is the WJ merger chair. He knows what he it talking about.
Cjet
As a Sunwing pilot I am very glad to hear that. Bede is often the mature voice of reason in threads full of childish rants. Im glad our guys won’t be sitting across the table from one of the “those assholes belong on the bottom of the list” guys I’ve seen posting on social media.
As a WJ pilot I don't feel that that is the majority attitude of the group. I haven't heard anyone refer to SW pilots in that manner, quite the opposite actually. There will be a desire for us to protect ourselves somewhat, as there will be a similar desire amongst SW pilots.
Oh I’m well aware of that. I have many friends at WJ. There were a couple WJ captains who were commenting on posts on social media saying nothing but BOTL was acceptable, I’m sure they are in the minority.
ant_321 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:49 pm
Oh I’m well aware of that. I have many friends at WJ. There were a couple WJ captains who were commenting on posts on social media saying nothing but BOTL was acceptable, I’m sure they are in the minority.
Definitely the minority. While I don't condone those remarks, gotta remember that the wounds from Swoop are still very fresh. Lots of WJ pilots had their upgrades delayed while watching junior pilots take the much lower paying Swoop Captain position.. Nonetheless, please don't let a few remarks from some vocal folks in the minority lead to unneeded animosity between the pilot groups. It's important to stick together.
Besides, silly remarks such as BOTL only only are not effective in driving some sort of agenda. At the end of the day, items that can't be negotiated will go to an arbitrator and the previous decisions/case law do not support a bottom of the list approach in the current situation. It'll be some sort of integrated seniority list. While I do expect some disagreements in negotiations (especially on specific issues: i.e. bases, 787, junior Captains at SWG) I do expect the committees to come to a fair resolution on most issues and send any issues they can't resolve to mediation or arbitration.
JBI wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:17 pm
Definitely the minority. While I don't condone those remarks, gotta remember that the wounds from Swoop are still very fresh. Lots of WJ pilots had their upgrades delayed while watching junior pilots take the much lower paying Swoop Captain position.. Nonetheless, please don't let a few remarks from some vocal folks in the minority lead to unneeded animosity between the pilot groups. It's important to stick together...
I don't know what "wounds" we are lamenting, but let's keep in mind that no one forced anyone to bid a certain way. Those were the positions that were available equally to all WestJet pilots more than once, and certainly some helped themselves to those positions during the pandemic. Positions, wherever they are and whatever they pay, are made available by the company and not the other pilots.
Having been through a few mergers, studied hundreds and been on a couple committees, I can tell you, saying “they go to the bottom of the list” does not go over well with an arbitrator. It’s extremely rare (to the point of non-existent) so you’re wasting his time. And remember, his sole decision decides your future career.
Historically, the arbitrated final decision is a suggestion from either side. Make it reasonable.
In this example, Swoop, Sunwing and Westjet have enough overlap, operating the same aircraft performing similar operations that some adjusted DOH or ratio merge is likely.
JBI wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:17 pm
Definitely the minority. While I don't condone those remarks, gotta remember that the wounds from Swoop are still very fresh. Lots of WJ pilots had their upgrades delayed while watching junior pilots take the much lower paying Swoop Captain position.. Nonetheless, please don't let a few remarks from some vocal folks in the minority lead to unneeded animosity between the pilot groups. It's important to stick together...
I don't know what "wounds" we are lamenting, but let's keep in mind that no one forced anyone to bid a certain way. Those were the positions that were available equally to all WestJet pilots more than once, and certainly some helped themselves to those positions during the pandemic. Positions, wherever they are and whatever they pay, are made available by the company and not the other pilots.
Ok but you’re being willingly obtuse here. It’s the same as the company farming your work out to the lowest bidder, and saying well, you’re all free to work there! Why didn’t you take this opportunity?? Swoop was a pink cancer that will take time to get over. Those that took advantage of it, knew what they were doing.
JBI wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:17 pm
Definitely the minority. While I don't condone those remarks, gotta remember that the wounds from Swoop are still very fresh. Lots of WJ pilots had their upgrades delayed while watching junior pilots take the much lower paying Swoop Captain position.. Nonetheless, please don't let a few remarks from some vocal folks in the minority lead to unneeded animosity between the pilot groups. It's important to stick together...
I don't know what "wounds" we are lamenting, but let's keep in mind that no one forced anyone to bid a certain way. Those were the positions that were available equally to all WestJet pilots more than once, and certainly some helped themselves to those positions during the pandemic. Positions, wherever they are and whatever they pay, are made available by the company and not the other pilots.
Ok but you’re being willingly obtuse here. It’s the same as the company farming your work out to the lowest bidder, and saying well, you’re all free to work there! Why didn’t you take this opportunity?? Swoop was a pink cancer that will take time to get over. Those that took advantage of it, knew what they were doing.
Same as TSA and GoJets (EgoJets) in the US.
The company wanted TSA pilots to fly larger CRJ700s at the same pay rate as the ERJ 145s. The pilots and the union said no. So the company created a new no union AOC call GoJets. A bunch of TSA pilots crossed the line to take left seat positions on an entirely different new seniority list. The company also hire OTS captains and FOs. The part 121 pilot groups protested with a " Say no to EgoJets" campaign. Meaning denie the jumpseat to all GoJets pilots. Lots of pilots stuck "Say no to EgoJets" stickers on their flight bags.
Those pilots knew what they were doing and did it anyway. They were blacklisted for good part of that decade.
