BEWARE $30,000 BOND FOR 3 YRS

[330heavy]

The shitty starting salary alone should be enough. As for the 30,000 bond? Don’t like it? Don’t apply.

Plenty of other jobs out there with no training bonds.

Says the guy at Jazz
A year ago we extended our TA, our narrow body pilots were top paid in Canada. Since then, Flair, WJ, Porter, soon AC will raise above. But guess what, we position ourselves to take advantage of gains done by WJ and AC for the coming 2025, so make of that what you will. We also have a very good lifestyle and flying, which should account for something.

The bond is what it is, and it’s there because some pilots have commitment issues. Would you not go after a contractor you paid to do a job but they bailed half way through? We want pilots who want to be here and for most, once here, they see why it’s a place to stay and the bond doesn’t matter. Those who have issue with it are likely ones that need not apply. The bond accounts for not only training, but also hotel, car rental, per diem as well, do feel free to price around Airbus type ratings. One could also argue AC and flat pay is like paying upfront for that type rating and that pay is lower, but yet you all trip over yourselves to go there no questions asked. I am hopeful AC rectifies the pay, and wish them the best, as their gains will help our gains. But stop expecting US salaries. It isn’t happening, we all can expect 25-30% + and continue building off each other.

Also, yogi21/apetogetherstrong, please try to stick to same user name in a thread, makes your arguments look week.

Buddy I'm not at Jazz, don't know where you're pulling that from..

You're "positioning yourselves to take advantage of gains" - wtf does that even mean? That's typical management-speak nonsense. Either you increase pay like Porter did or you don't. You keep touting lifestyle like that justifies your shit pay. And yet you still need a bond to keep people from running to AC as soon as they can. Your backwards mentality is why pilots in this country continue to be walked all over. It shouldn't be a trade-off of pay vs lifestyle. They go hand in hand. Of course you probably don't actually care because you got yours, so @#$! the new guy at your own company trying to scrape by on $3500/mo when rent for a 1bed is $2500.

Even worse is your flawed gradeschool analogies and farcical reasoning to justify this bond. At worst the company has more than recouped the cost of training after 1 year. The whole purpose of this bond (as pointed out by Yogi) is to trap people into this crap contract for as long as possible. Good luck servicing that 1.8b as this economy stagnates...you better hope Justy has some more of those sweet tax payer dollars for another handout.

I didn't say you were at Jazz thepoors, reread it again. It's interesting seeing the post history of those most offended by it. Regardless, don't like it, don't apply. It's there for a reason, as DanWEC pointed out. You aren't stuck, you can leave anytime. Bond is also tax deductable should you leave. If the company has an issue attracting pilots, it'll either raise wages, and/or remove the bond, until that time, it's no secret or surprise.

[TFTMB heavy]

Management has acknowledged that recruitment and retention are and issue and said they are open to remedying the situation. There are many moving parts to this process due to restructuring and some fleet plan adjustments. That being said although it’s not happening as quickly as we would like I believe it will happen before the CA renewal cycle comes around.

[thepoors]

Says the guy at Jazz

I didn't say you were at Jazz

Now you're gaslighting me? Wow.. really hitting all the management lackey highlights here.

[DanWEC]

Says the guy at Jazz

I didn't say you were at Jazz

Now you're gaslighting me? Wow.. really hitting all the management lackey highlights here.

You're reading the wrong response entirely. He wasn't responding to you. You're getting your accounts mixed up.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Management has acknowledged that recruitment and retention are and issue and said they are open to remedying the situation. There are many moving parts to this process due to restructuring and some fleet plan adjustments. That being said although it’s not happening as quickly as we would like I believe it will happen before the CA renewal cycle comes around.

Aren’t we now in a time where airlines and operators are offering signing bonuses and retention bonuses? Bonds are a thing of the past. It used to be a way to handcuff pilots and get them for a couple years. The best way to retain pilots is to make their life good. Pay, QOL, and frankly….. just company morale.

Edit 1: punctuation grammar. See: “Eats, shoots and leaves” by Lynne truss for a quick oceanic crossing pairing reading book.

[hsilgnepilot]

People coming on here and just crapping all over Transat new-hire pay clearly haven’t done any research.

Up until 3 months ago, it was the best narrow body pay scale in Canada (yes better than AC). Then WestJet got a new CA, Porter got significant gains, and now it’s not as appealing because of that. But that’s the nature of the industry right now - it’s evolving for the better.

We’re under contract until April 2025, and while that might seem long to most people, I feel it is a great position to be in as the last major airline to negotiate. AC will be done, and it will continue to put pressure on the company to be competitive if they’re unable to fill seats in ground schools.

People need to start looking at the long game, not just what the first year pay at a company looks like. I don’t agree with a bond at all, but all things considered it’s a career airline if you decide to make it one and the company is headed in a great direction.

[CaptDukeNukem]

People coming on here and just crapping all over Transat new-hire pay clearly haven’t done any research.

Up until 3 months ago, it was the best narrow body pay scale in Canada (yes better than AC). Then WestJet got a new CA, Porter got significant gains, and now it’s not as appealing because of that. But that’s the nature of the industry right now - it’s evolving for the better.

We’re under contract until April 2025, and while that might seem long to most people, I feel it is a great position to be in as the last major airline to negotiate. AC will be done, and it will continue to put pressure on the company to be competitive if they’re unable to fill seats in ground schools.

People need to start looking at the long game, not just what the first year pay at a company looks like. I don’t agree with a bond at all, but all things considered it’s a career airline if you decide to make it one and the company is headed in a great direction.

I don’t think entry level pay is the topic here. TS is a great airline.

People are discussing the fact that TS still believes that attaching a pilots wrist to an airbus joystick for 3 years or (suffer the consequences of pay of a training bond) is the current acceptable level of practice.

I will say it again, training bonds (whether it’s money up front or not) are complete BS in this day and age. Generally they are inconsequential, but if that’s the case, why do they even exist today?

[digits_]

People need to start looking at the long game, not just what the first year pay at a company looks like.

First year pay is what you'll get when signing your employment contract. Everything else can change on a whim. For new pilots, first year pay is very important. Especially if you're bonded.

[Babar350]

People coming on here and just crapping all over Transat new-hire pay clearly haven’t done any research.

Up until 3 months ago, it was the best narrow body pay scale in Canada (yes better than AC).

But because of the crappy benefits, the pilots have less money in their bank accounts and are less covered than AC pilots because AC is paying for the benefits?
It is also something to consider.

[CaptDukeNukem]

People coming on here and just crapping all over Transat new-hire pay clearly haven’t done any research.

Up until 3 months ago, it was the best narrow body pay scale in Canada (yes better than AC).

But because of the crappy benefits, the pilots have less money in their bank accounts and are less covered than AC pilots because AC is paying for the benefits?
It is also something to consider.

What’s the combined deduction for a TS capt with family plan? Not sure if TS has different plan levels.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Management has acknowledged that recruitment and retention are and issue and said they are open to remedying the situation. There are many moving parts to this process due to restructuring and some fleet plan adjustments. That being said although it’s not happening as quickly as we would like I believe it will happen before the CA renewal cycle comes around.

Management threw a carrot at you. They just lowered the minimums to 1500 now. Is that how they will remedy the situation? Instead of paying pilots a liveable wage they will just keep on lowering the minimums. Guys stop defending a shitty starting wage and a bond. There is no justification!

[hsilgnepilot]

Management has acknowledged that recruitment and retention are and issue and said they are open to remedying the situation. There are many moving parts to this process due to restructuring and some fleet plan adjustments. That being said although it’s not happening as quickly as we would like I believe it will happen before the CA renewal cycle comes around.

Management threw a carrot at you. They just lowered the minimums to 1500 now. Is that how they will remedy the situation? Instead of paying pilots a liveable wage they will just keep on lowering the minimums. Guys stop defending a shitty starting wage and a bond. There is no justification!

Don’t act like Air Transat is the only airline in Canada that’s lowered their hiring minimums. WestJet lowered their minimums to 1500 hours as well and has one of the highest starting pay in Canada. Unfortunately that’s what it’s come to. Yes the starting wage is low, will it be corrected? Yes. When? Who knows, but 2025 at the latest as it stands right now.

[TFTMB heavy]

Some of you are wasting your business skills flying airplanes. Please go into management and show them how to run an airline. Or go and show the union how it’s done, get elected and make us all rich!

TS flight attendants are in bargaining right now, we will not get anything until they are done.

[Brakefans]

People coming on here and just crapping all over Transat new-hire pay clearly haven’t done any research.

Up until 3 months ago, it was the best narrow body pay scale in Canada (yes better than AC).

But because of the crappy benefits, the pilots have less money in their bank accounts and are less covered than AC pilots because AC is paying for the benefits?
It is also something to consider.

Precisely. Who cares if the starting salary is the highest when you end up having to pay collective insurance and long term disability.

Transat is clearly having a pilot retention issue. If they want to improve the turnover, a bond isn’t a long term solution. We keep on hearing 2025 will be the year everything is fixed, what was stopping the union from signing a 2-3 year deal with meaningful increases last year?

How come no one discusses the other elephant in the room. Over 10% of Transat’s fleet is comprised of wet leases, 2 737s and 2 330. Is that also magically going away in 2025?

[Blueontop]

Some of you are wasting your business skills flying airplanes. Please go into management and show them how to run an airline. Or go and show the union how it’s done, get elected and make us all rich!

TS flight attendants are in bargaining right now, we will not get anything until they are done.

With company shill statements like that management doesn’t need to run the company well at all or recognize the changing weather. Just need to focus on hiring boot lickers to gas light anyone who is yelling for improvement and defend shitty pay/bonds.

It apparent that there are 2 groups in this thread.

Group A that sees sub-standard pay and archaic practices such as bonds, calls it out and seeks to end this nonsense for the benefit of all pilots in Canada

Group B which just does nothing but defend sub-standard wages and bonds, even to their own detriment

What I can’t figure out is why anyone wants to defend their own crappy wages and conditions? Is out of ego, self-pride? Nobody is gonna call you out, we’re all in the same boat here and need to row together! We’ll all be better off in the end!

[TFTMB heavy]

Some of you are wasting your business skills flying airplanes. Please go into management and show them how to run an airline. Or go and show the union how it’s done, get elected and make us all rich!

TS flight attendants are in bargaining right now, we will not get anything until they are done.

With company shill statements like that management doesn’t need to run the company well at all or recognize the changing weather. Just need to focus on hiring boot lickers to gas light anyone who is yelling for improvement and defend shitty pay/bonds.

It apparent that there are 2 groups in this thread.

Group A that sees sub-standard pay and archaic practices such as bonds, calls it out and seeks to end this nonsense for the benefit of all pilots in Canada

Group B which just does nothing but defend sub-standard wages and bonds, even to their own detriment

What I can’t figure out is why anyone wants to defend their own crappy wages and conditions? Is out of ego, self-pride? Nobody is gonna call you out, we’re all in the same boat here and need to row together! We’ll all be better off in the end!

Company shill and boot licker? You got the wrong guy. It’s been stated many times by TS pilots in this thread that we do not support the bond. Starting wages were top of the list in Canada not too long ago. We are just over a year into a 3 year extension signed by a company that is heavily indebted and in the process of reinventing itself. The balance sheet is coming around and new management is making big changes, those do not happen over night.

All of you yelling at TS people that we’re out of touch with the bond and low wages just don’t understand how public companies with unionized workforces operate. FAs are in bargaining, the company can’t just come out and throw money at us until they’re done with that negotiation. Removing the bond without addressing the pilot contract as a whole is a scheduling suicide just months before the sun destinations get busy. Also, Air Canada pilots are in bargaining, that will play in our favour for our next contract.

So take a deep breath and don’t come work at TS if you don’t like it, we’ll be just fine without you.

[Babar350]

Some of you are wasting your business skills flying airplanes. Please go into management and show them how to run an airline. Or go and show the union how it’s done, get elected and make us all rich!

TS flight attendants are in bargaining right now, we will not get anything until they are done.

With company shill statements like that management doesn’t need to run the company well at all or recognize the changing weather. Just need to focus on hiring boot lickers to gas light anyone who is yelling for improvement and defend shitty pay/bonds.

It apparent that there are 2 groups in this thread.

Group A that sees sub-standard pay and archaic practices such as bonds, calls it out and seeks to end this nonsense for the benefit of all pilots in Canada

Group B which just does nothing but defend sub-standard wages and bonds, even to their own detriment

What I can’t figure out is why anyone wants to defend their own crappy wages and conditions? Is out of ego, self-pride? Nobody is gonna call you out, we’re all in the same boat here and need to row together! We’ll all be better off in the end!

Company shill and boot licker? You got the wrong guy. It’s been stated many times by TS pilots in this thread that we do not support the bond. Starting wages were top of the list in Canada not too long ago. We are just over a year into a 3 year extension signed by a company that is heavily indebted and in the process of reinventing itself. The balance sheet is coming around and new management is making big changes, those do not happen over night.

All of you yelling at TS people that we’re out of touch with the bond and low wages just don’t understand how public companies with unionized workforces operate. FAs are in bargaining, the company can’t just come out and throw money at us until they’re done with that negotiation. Removing the bond without addressing the pilot contract as a whole is a scheduling suicide just months before the sun destinations get busy. Also, Air Canada pilots are in bargaining, that will play in our favour for our next contract.

So take a deep breath and don’t come work at TS if you don’t like it, we’ll be just fine without you.

Does someone know how the negotiations are going with the FAs? Should we expect them to look for a job action?
I thought their contract was already expired ?

[thepoors]

Some of you are wasting your business skills flying airplanes. Please go into management and show them how to run an airline. Or go and show the union how it’s done, get elected and make us all rich!

TS flight attendants are in bargaining right now, we will not get anything until they are done.

With company shill statements like that management doesn’t need to run the company well at all or recognize the changing weather. Just need to focus on hiring boot lickers to gas light anyone who is yelling for improvement and defend shitty pay/bonds.

It apparent that there are 2 groups in this thread.

Group A that sees sub-standard pay and archaic practices such as bonds, calls it out and seeks to end this nonsense for the benefit of all pilots in Canada

Group B which just does nothing but defend sub-standard wages and bonds, even to their own detriment

What I can’t figure out is why anyone wants to defend their own crappy wages and conditions? Is out of ego, self-pride? Nobody is gonna call you out, we’re all in the same boat here and need to row together! We’ll all be better off in the end!

Starting wages were top of the list in Canada not too long ago. We are just over a year into a 3 year extension signed by a company that is heavily indebted and in the process of reinventing itself. The balance sheet is coming around and new management is making big changes, those do not happen over night.

Haha the above statements go to prove how committed you are to the shilling and boot licking:

1) we were top salaried in Canada
2) our poor company that received 100m in taxpayer dollars is still in debt, we must sacrifice for "the good of the company"
3) things are on the up and up now thanks to new management that cares...
4) be patient while you live on the poverty line - "these things take time"

Hard to believe you have that little self-awareness and are that far out of touch but you're doing a good job proving otherwise.

To echo Blueontop, why do you continue to make excuses for a company that is underpaying you and using greasy employment tactics??

[FL320]

if the lifestyle is so amazing and the company is so great, then why do they need a bond to trap people from leaving?.. I'm not following the logic.

Lifestyle is amazing; I like working 12 days per month: please bond me

[digits_]

if the lifestyle is so amazing and the company is so great, then why do they need a bond to trap people from leaving?.. I'm not following the logic.

Lifestyle is amazing; I like working 12 days per month: please bond me

Excellent. It comes with an 80% paycut though. Still interested?

[FL320]

if the lifestyle is so amazing and the company is so great, then why do they need a bond to trap people from leaving?.. I'm not following the logic.

Lifestyle is amazing; I like working 12 days per month: please bond me

Excellent. It comes with an 80% paycut though. Still interested?

And if I tell you that it is what you will get in less than 3 years (depending on your actual flying experience)?

[TFTMB heavy]

With company shill statements like that management doesn’t need to run the company well at all or recognize the changing weather. Just need to focus on hiring boot lickers to gas light anyone who is yelling for improvement and defend shitty pay/bonds.

It apparent that there are 2 groups in this thread.

Group A that sees sub-standard pay and archaic practices such as bonds, calls it out and seeks to end this nonsense for the benefit of all pilots in Canada

Group B which just does nothing but defend sub-standard wages and bonds, even to their own detriment

What I can’t figure out is why anyone wants to defend their own crappy wages and conditions? Is out of ego, self-pride? Nobody is gonna call you out, we’re all in the same boat here and need to row together! We’ll all be better off in the end!

Starting wages were top of the list in Canada not too long ago. We are just over a year into a 3 year extension signed by a company that is heavily indebted and in the process of reinventing itself. The balance sheet is coming around and new management is making big changes, those do not happen over night.

Haha the above statements go to prove how committed you are to the shilling and boot licking:

1) we were top salaried in Canada
2) our poor company that received 100m in taxpayer dollars is still in debt, we must sacrifice for "the good of the company"
3) things are on the up and up now thanks to new management that cares...
4) be patient while you live on the poverty line - "these things take time"

Hard to believe you have that little self-awareness and are that far out of touch but you're doing a good job proving otherwise.

To echo Blueontop, why do you continue to make excuses for a company that is underpaying you and using greasy employment tactics??

That's one of the finest attempts at word twisting I've ever seen on here, not worth my time re-explaining myself. And you attacks on my character are amusing.

[330heavy]

Perhaps thepoors/whoever else, would care to enlighten us the contributions and advances they’ve done for the pilot industry. No need to list them all, just the most recent one please. Judging by their history and character here, I can only imagine.

It astounds me the lack of understanding and education that is displayed here. No concept of how a union works. No concept of the aviation industry. No concept of how to fix the Canadian pilot industry is, but they’re keen to play armchair warrior, without attempt in real life.

As far as I can tell, Air Transat continues to hire qualified and outstanding pilots. All I’ve meet help make working here enjoyable, and I hope that continues, bond or not.



Oh, and want to call me a management shill, go for it. I think our management is top notch, doing a great job. Are things perfect? No, but we’re on the right track, and good things are coming.

[digits_]

Lifestyle is amazing; I like working 12 days per month: please bond me

Excellent. It comes with an 80% paycut though. Still interested?

And if I tell you that it is what you will get in less than 3 years (depending on your actual flying experience)?

That's the thing. People sign with that expectation. And when it becomes clear the expectations aren't met, they can't leave easily to improve their situation. Management will say 'oops, sorry'. Pilots would then say, 'no worries, I will go somewhere else then', but they can't.

Most people only want to skip out on bonds when management promises or expectations aren't materializing. They get punished twice: slower career progression and paying out a bond if you want to leave.

[FL320]

I am not pro bond at all and I agree that it should be removed.
However most pilots who resigned in the last few months (about 50) went to AC and were almost all still doing their initial training: they don’t have to pay the bond in this case. Most are less than 30 yo; they haven’t had the chance to taste the Air Transat’s lifestyle: they just moved to AC because it looks more appealing in terms of job security and pay in the long term (and not for the lifestyle). Transat could increase the salary up to 100k/y 1st year FO and people would still leave to AC anyway.
You can think whatever you want: Air Transat is a great employer; we are extremely well treated in many aspects. Talked to a friend who left to Air Canada after 7 years at Transat: the only thing he has to say after a year is that he regrets big time, he has zero fun at Air Canada. The grass is not always greener; and it’s nice to hear from those who can really compare.