Flair Cadet Program Assessments

[tbaylx]

Before paying for their training, will these 'several hundred' applicants be given an explanation as to why the graduation rate at genesis is significantly below the industry average?

https://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/pepg/audience ... cid=164237

Also, I am curious why genesis uses A320 cockpit images in their advertising for this program? Is Flair getting A320s?

I would expect the program to be challenging, although selection is robust so candidates who enter the program are likely to be successful. Since we haven't run the first group of cadets through the program yet, comparing graduation rates of a completely different program is not very relevant. The military also has a significantly lower graduation rate than the industry average, also not relevant to Flair's cadet program and about as much in common.

We have no intent to switch fleet types.

It's encouraging to see how much attention Flair's Cadet program seems to be generating in an otherwise quiet training forum.

You did not answer the questions. I will ask them again in a more direct manner.

Will candidates be made aware of genesis' training record?

Why does genesis use images of an A320 in advertising for a program involving a 737?

Here's a more direct answer;

1- Genesis doesn't have a training record for a cadet program. The course hasn't been run yet. Their graduation rate on some other CPL training is completely irrelevant. I'm sure that once there are some meaningful statistics after a year or two we will be reviewing it.

2- I really have no idea and don't see why it would be relevant to you or any prospective candidates. Probably because they had that picture handy when making the ad. It has zero effect on the course content and qualifications.

[30 West]

I would expect the program to be challenging, although selection is robust so candidates who enter the program are likely to be successful. Since we haven't run the first group of cadets through the program yet, comparing graduation rates of a completely different program is not very relevant. The military also has a significantly lower graduation rate than the industry average, also not relevant to Flair's cadet program and about as much in common.

We have no intent to switch fleet types.

It's encouraging to see how much attention Flair's Cadet program seems to be generating in an otherwise quiet training forum.

You did not answer the questions. I will ask them again in a more direct manner.

Will candidates be made aware of genesis' training record?

Why does genesis use images of an A320 in advertising for a program involving a 737?

Here's a more direct answer;

1- Genesis doesn't have a training record for a cadet program. The course hasn't been run yet. Their graduation rate on some other CPL training is completely irrelevant. I'm sure that once there are some meaningful statistics after a year or two we will be reviewing it.

2- I really have no idea and don't see why it would be relevant to you or any prospective candidates. Probably because they had that picture handy when making the ad. It has zero effect on the course content and qualifications.

I apologize but I disagree with both points.

I guess I am glad to hear there will eventually be some oversight though.

Thank you for the responses.

[goldeneagle]

The Flair Cadet program is very expensive (even for aviation). It's 145K, about twice what other flight colleges are. Might want to consider other college programs that can offer more options and not be tied to a specific carrier.

So to put it in perspective, that's twice the cost of medical school for a job that pays 10% of what a medical school graduate earns after residency. Where do I sign up?

That number is a bit low for med school, UBC quotes 90K to complete the 4 years of med school. but it's a bit of a red herring even at that, because to apply to the med school you first need to get a bachelor in one of a few options, so that's 4 years often referred to as 'pre med'. Then ofc there is the step of passing the MCAT, after which you can finally apply for med school. Med school is another 4 years, then it's followed by 3 or more years of residency. At a minimum one is going to be in school for 10 years, and for most, considerably more if you are going zero to hero for the MD. It's not like doing a pilot path where it's possible to go from zero to hero in about a year.

So quoting med school at half of 145 is only reflective of reality for somebody that already did a 4 year program that included all of the med school pre-requisites, has passed the MCAT and is going to live at home so not have living expenses for the next 4 years.

[TurkeyFarmYQX]

I'm just curious how these FO's after all this is said and done are ever going to upgrade?

Is Flair bringing in a PICUS program on the 737 like the Europeans? Or are these bright-eyed FO's stuck in the right seat forever?

[Arnie Pye]

I'm curious to know why you even care? Are you planning to get your license and are shopping around? Somehow I don't think you are. It's a matter of choice and if you're only criticizing the venture out of spite, then you're simply one more of the naysaying rabble who have no reason (other than the usual negative bunch on here) to comment. Let those who would like to have bonafide information make up their own minds.
[/quote]

I care because if I had a kid who was looking to get into Canadian aviation, I would categorically talk them/they out of this path. I would not pay twice as much and limit their options for a career path that couldn't be more wide open right now.

How many companies like this have catered to rich overseas cadets and gone bankrupt only a short time later. Pre-covid, I can think of at least a few that had dedicated contracts with overseas airlines to train their cadets and despite the guaranteed monthly income closed their doors.

By the time you pay for the extra time building required, housing and food, you could spend daddy's money on a law degree and pilot licensing as that would probably cost about the same but have far more options. At that price, you could buy a fully decked out 911 and still have enough money for most of your licensing if you do it on your own and live at home.

To be clear as well, this isn't Flair that is charging these ridiculous prices. It's a 3rd party company. They've just partnered with Flair so it would be like saying I'm disgruntled at the cost of catering on board the planes.

No one knows what the selection process is yet - it could be as simple as can your parents can put down all the money all at once.

[Oleo 4]

With 5000 down and 10,000 being deducted on the first of the month as per the FTU I would be concerned about the statement on their website:

“ Students who do not progress further in the cadet program will continue on the normal iATPL track.” I would caution any candidate to think about how and why you may not be eligible for the cadet program and who controls that trigger, but still able to continue your training for the iATPL. Is this made at 120k, 130k, 140k, 150k, or 160+k. A flight attendant at work just completed CPL, Multi, IFR on a diamond platform for less than 80k and is building time flying night cross country.

I agree and applaud the idea of a cadet program in Canada. However I completely disagree with proration of money to a flight school with an unproven cadet program with the end result of buying a 737 type rating. I do not agree that an airline should offload its training costs to the candidates they have selected, screened, monitored, mentored, and ultimately hired. That practise stinks of JetsGo.

I’ve flown with former Jetsgo pilots that paid for their ratings only to find the company go under before the rides. That money was never recovered. Do yourselves a favour and go learn to fly, put hours in your book, and pay for the time used in aircraft after you turn off the master switch. Never before.

O

[Donald]

With 5000 down and 10,000 being deducted on the first of the month as per the FTU I would be concerned about the statement on their website:

“ Students who do not progress further in the cadet program will continue on the normal iATPL track.” I would caution any candidate to think about how and why you may not be eligible for the cadet program and who controls that trigger, but still able to continue your training for the iATPL. Is this made at 120k, 130k, 140k, 150k, or 160+k. A flight attendant at work just completed CPL, Multi, IFR on a diamond platform for less than 80k and is building time flying night cross country.

I agree and applaud the idea of a cadet program in Canada. However I completely disagree with proration of money to a flight school with an unproven cadet program with the end result of buying a 737 type rating. I do not agree that an airline should offload its training costs to the candidates they have selected, screened, monitored, mentored, and ultimately hired. That practise stinks of JetsGo.

I’ve flown with former Jetsgo pilots that paid for their ratings only to find the company go under before the rides. That money was never recovered. Do yourselves a favour and go learn to fly, put hours in your book, and pay for the time used in aircraft after you turn off the master switch. Never before.

O

You might be shocked to learn that tbaylx is ex-Jetsgo.

[Oleo 4]

Hi Donald,

I’m aware of him, however don’t want to make this personal in nature or an attack on another airline. Just to put light on an idea that I agree with (cadet program) that had potential, but encompasses some serious flaws that could catch and harm young pilots coming up.

O

[Donald]

Hi Donald,

I’m aware of him, however don’t want to make this personal in nature or an attack on another airline. Just to put light on an idea that I agree with (cadet program) that had potential, but encompasses some serious flaws that could catch and harm young pilots coming up.

O

Who attacked who? Simply stated a fact, after your comment about the cadet scheme "stinks" like Jetsgo.

[tbaylx]

With 5000 down and 10,000 being deducted on the first of the month as per the FTU I would be concerned about the statement on their website:

“ Students who do not progress further in the cadet program will continue on the normal iATPL track.” I would caution any candidate to think about how and why you may not be eligible for the cadet program and who controls that trigger, but still able to continue your training for the iATPL. Is this made at 120k, 130k, 140k, 150k, or 160+k. A flight attendant at work just completed CPL, Multi, IFR on a diamond platform for less than 80k and is building time flying night cross country.

I agree and applaud the idea of a cadet program in Canada. However I completely disagree with proration of money to a flight school with an unproven cadet program with the end result of buying a 737 type rating. I do not agree that an airline should offload its training costs to the candidates they have selected, screened, monitored, mentored, and ultimately hired. That practise stinks of JetsGo.

I’ve flown with former Jetsgo pilots that paid for their ratings only to find the company go under before the rides. That money was never recovered. Do yourselves a favour and go learn to fly, put hours in your book, and pay for the time used in aircraft after you turn off the master switch. Never before.

O

Then you'll be happy to know the cadet program does not include a type rating. The type rating is provided by Flair at their expense once the cadet graduates and is hired on as a FO.

[Oleo 4]

Hey that's great news!

Then why does the program cost 2x? What 737 training is being provided as described in the program?

O

[tbaylx]

Hey that's great news!

Then why does the program cost 2x? What 737 training is being provided as described in the program?

O

The 737 training provided uses Flairs FTD to complete part of the multi-engine training and the MCC portion of the course. It is not a type rating, although candidates will be familiar with the 737 and Boeing SOP upon graduation. Costs are a reflection of the training provided. Details can be found on the provider's webpage.

If candidates don't think they're getting value for the money then they can go with the traditional route, spend less money upfront and work their way up through the traditional career paths. Now they have an airline cadet program option as well.

[yowflyer23]

Prospective pilots can spend less money getting an CPL or even iATPL at any other flying school, however, there aren't any 705 airlines that will hire you as an FO in the right seat of a 737 when you graduate. Nor do you get the APS-MCC integration. You'll need to get at least 1000+ hours of flying experience elsewhere before most airlines will consider you. The Flair cadet program will fast-track pilots into a 705 jet and a seniority list.

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. Sunwing has been doing this for many years from select schools. One can go to MRU, Waterloo, Seneca, etc. they all cost less and provide opportunities to join Jazz, Sunwing, Air Sprint, etc. right out of school.

There would be far more value to a program like this if the airline fronted the bill for the training like BA does for example. Otherwise, you might as well get some post-secondary education and have the same shot at joining the 705 world with less debt.