Air Canada pilots stand “UNITED”

[Blueontop]

What a joke we are in Canada

I dont think we will see pay increases like this ever. WestJet did Fawk all when it was time to "hold the line". AC management will just compare themselves to them, and eventually ALPA will take the best lowball they can get.

They've got all the flat payers by the balls too imo. Many cant afford to strike when the time comes, even when its the only hope. Please prove me wrong.

Well, there are plenty of pilots that didn't show at the picket in Toronto who could have. I hope they are finally seeing the light that without every individual doing everything that they can do, this won't go far. Like the old saying "take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves", work on your own attitude, and the entire group will be unstoppable. UNSTOPPABLE. Talk defeat before we have even really begun and God help us.

Each Member needs to look in the mirror and ask, "am I doing everything I can to support my collegues by doing MY part in holding the line?? Start by getting involved, showing up and following the direction of your Union, subtle or otherwise. This isn't a spectator sport.



FWIW, Look at what you sacrificed to get where you are. You sacrificed A LOT. We aren't asking for much over the next 4 months. Nothing in comparison actually. I am not a Union rep, just a guy who has seen what a "defeatist attitude" gets us, and I'm very sick of it. I sacrificed TOO MUCH to be on the lowest rung of the compensation ladder with some of the worst work rules in the world. You should be sick of being dead last too, and there is only ONE WAY to fix it. Help me rise, and I will help you.


HOLD THE LINE by SUPPORTING THE LINE.

double plus good

I’m ready, willing and able.

Are you?

[RippleRock]

What a joke we are in Canada

I dont think we will see pay increases like this ever. WestJet did Fawk all when it was time to "hold the line". AC management will just compare themselves to them, and eventually ALPA will take the best lowball they can get.

They've got all the flat payers by the balls too imo. Many cant afford to strike when the time comes, even when its the only hope. Please prove me wrong.

I’m not so sure. The flat pay pilots will break even or even get a raise with the ALPA strike pay. Every other pilot should keep in mind that we will be paid retroactively to Sept 30th of this year. We are essentially already operating under the new payscales, we just don’t know what the figures are yet. The strike won’t happen until next year at the earliest and would likely last 1-2 weeks. 1 month at the most. Whatever debt one would potentially rack up in that 1-2 weeks will likely be paid off almost immediately with the retro pay. Every single pilot at Air Canada should be 100% ready to go when the time comes knowing that it would be a very short term pain for a career’s worth of gain.

That's actually a GREAT point. As of last Thursday at midnight, you are already getting "retro pay" to cover any strike losses. Now is the time to DETERMINE WHAT THAT AMOUNT IS. You want that retro check to be significant? WORK FOR IT by uniting and following the direction of the union. It will dwarf the lack of pay during a strike and will nullify the value of any ___ being done now. (you know the two letters in that blank space are)

Remember what you get in the new AIP will echo the effort you put in right now on every paycheck you get for the rest of your career. For many the next 35 years of your lifestyle will be determined in the next 4 months. DO YOUR PART, and spread the word to the outliers.

[Dash.Trash]

What a joke we are in Canada

I dont think we will see pay increases like this ever. WestJet did Fawk all when it was time to "hold the line". AC management will just compare themselves to them, and eventually ALPA will take the best lowball they can get.

They've got all the flat payers by the balls too imo. Many cant afford to strike when the time comes, even when its the only hope. Please prove me wrong.

I’m not so sure. The flat pay pilots will break even or even get a raise with the ALPA strike pay. Every other pilot should keep in mind that we will be paid retroactively to Sept 30th of this year. We are essentially already operating under the new payscales, we just don’t know what the figures are yet. The strike won’t happen until next year at the earliest and would likely last 1-2 weeks. 1 month at the most. Whatever debt one would potentially rack up in that 1-2 weeks will likely be paid off almost immediately with the retro pay. Every single pilot at Air Canada should be 100% ready to go when the time comes knowing that it would be a very short term pain for a career’s worth of gain.

That's actually a GREAT point. You are already getting "retro pay". Now is the time to DETERMINE WHAT THAT IS. You want that retro check to be significant? WORK FOR IT. Do your part.

Remember what you get in the new AIP will echo the effort you put in right now on every paycheck you get for the rest of your career. For many the next 35 years will be determined in the next 4 months. DO YOUR PART, and spread the word.

To be clear, retro pay is not a guarantee, it has to be negotiated for. That being said, I would fully expect the negotes team / MEC will not put forward a proposal without it.

[yowflyer23]

Somebody made an amazing point in this forum that I think needs to be emphasized far more. The US majors have zero issues with retention and finding new applicants, just like AC. Like up here, it's the regionals that are suffering on that front. However, the majors in the US have all been able to achieve incredible contracts in an environment with no labour supply issues. The lesson here is to know your worth! Having a look at AC's balance sheet will also uncover that their operating margin is higher than that of United for the second quarter (14.8% vs 10.7%) and first half of the year (7.6% vs 5.8%). These differences are made on the backs of underpaid employees. It's about time pilots are rewarded fairly.

[RippleRock]

I’m not so sure. The flat pay pilots will break even or even get a raise with the ALPA strike pay. Every other pilot should keep in mind that we will be paid retroactively to Sept 30th of this year. We are essentially already operating under the new payscales, we just don’t know what the figures are yet. The strike won’t happen until next year at the earliest and would likely last 1-2 weeks. 1 month at the most. Whatever debt one would potentially rack up in that 1-2 weeks will likely be paid off almost immediately with the retro pay. Every single pilot at Air Canada should be 100% ready to go when the time comes knowing that it would be a very short term pain for a career’s worth of gain.

That's actually a GREAT point. You are already getting "retro pay". Now is the time to DETERMINE WHAT THAT IS. You want that retro check to be significant? WORK FOR IT. Do your part.

Remember what you get in the new AIP will echo the effort you put in right now on every paycheck you get for the rest of your career. For many the next 35 years will be determined in the next 4 months. DO YOUR PART, and spread the word.

To be clear, retro pay is not a guarantee, it has to be negotiated for. That being said, I would fully expect the negotes team / MEC will not put forward a proposal without it.

Yes. Nothing is a "given".

However, our pay has been so badly "mashed" by inflation, and the new hires have been left out in the cold way too long. Year three and four were nearly abolished a year ago. I would be shocked if the MEC submitted a proposal to the Membership for ratification without accounting for that. It would be an instant "NO" from me.

We're currently at 2% per year. Inflation is running at 4% minimum. We are currently going backward like we have been for the last 9 years. That ended on Thursday night if we demand it.

[Inverted2]

Inflation is WAAAAY higher than 4%. That’s the figures the Lie-beral government tells you. I wouldn’t trust anything this government says. Nothing at all. Everything is significantly higher than it was a few years ago.

[DanWEC]

The posted inflation rate is far, far below what the actual cost of living increase is. First, it doesn't take into account property values. Second, the primary metric, the CPI, is heavily skewed downward because of the constant lowering of consumer goods as new technologies emerge.
What this means is it takes the price of say, a flat screen 60" TV, which was obviously 10x more expensive in 2000 than today.
Lastly, NO country ever wants to post positive inflation numbers because it directly and proportionally devalues their currency, so every effort is made to keep the posted number low.

So, when we take a 2% raise over a year because that's what the company agrees to because they can refer to the published rate, we just got royally fucked. Which is just another reason why we are among the lowest paid airline pilots in the world while being in the top half for COL.

[cjp]

Every pilot in Canada should be behind us. We are attempting to set a new benchmark in Canada that all other carriers will have to improve upon. Our success is you success. Your success is our success.

We hope to see you all at the next pickets and we thank those from other carriers that showed up in Toronto. We set a new Canadian record for picket attendance, let's set a new record EVERY TIME going forward. The steep "Canadian discount" on it's Aviation Professionals is OVER.

Do you have dates and locations yet?

[RippleRock]

Every pilot in Canada should be behind us. We are attempting to set a new benchmark in Canada that all other carriers will have to improve upon. Our success is you success. Your success is our success.

We hope to see you all at the next pickets and we thank those from other carriers that showed up in Toronto. We set a new Canadian record for picket attendance, let's set a new record EVERY TIME going forward. The steep "Canadian discount" on it's Aviation Professionals is OVER.

Do you have dates and locations yet?

I'm not a Union rep or affiliated in any way, other than being one of the troops in the trench willing "to go over the top" when asked.

I'm hearing the next one is in Montreal, but I don't know when. Expect some action at the Shareholder meetings. ALPA will advise at least a month in advance. I think a lot depends on how things are going at the table, and we haven't tabled all our demands just yet, so we're still in "information gathering mode". Once things stagnate, or we hit a wall expect things to ramp up.

Everyone should pay attention to the subtle messages from your MEC. "Enjoy your time off with your family" isn't difficult to decipher. If confused by the "info" received, reach out to a Union rep.

Every one of us has the individual responsibility to do everything they can to right this ship.

Be prepared to HOLD THE LINE.

[rooster]

What a joke we are in Canada

I dont think we will see pay increases like this ever. WestJet did Fawk all when it was time to "hold the line". AC management will just compare themselves to them, and eventually ALPA will take the best lowball they can get.

They've got all the flat payers by the balls too imo. Many cant afford to strike when the time comes, even when its the only hope. Please prove me wrong.

It's the flat payers that really know what they will gain from this. Short term financial pain for long term financial gain? The flat payers will be just fine don't you worry. In fact, I'd guess if the contract turns out to be a disappointment, you'll see a lot of those flat payers vacate the property for other opportunities. I've heard that stat was on one of the survey's they did.

[raptilly]

What a joke we are in Canada

I dont think we will see pay increases like this ever. WestJet did Fawk all when it was time to "hold the line". AC management will just compare themselves to them, and eventually ALPA will take the best lowball they can get.

They've got all the flat payers by the balls too imo. Many cant afford to strike when the time comes, even when its the only hope. Please prove me wrong.

Strike pay is actually more than what a first year flat payer earns. Go figure.

[WF9F]

What a joke we are in Canada

I dont think we will see pay increases like this ever. WestJet did Fawk all when it was time to "hold the line". AC management will just compare themselves to them, and eventually ALPA will take the best lowball they can get.

They've got all the flat payers by the balls too imo. Many cant afford to strike when the time comes, even when its the only hope. Please prove me wrong.

If we go out the strike pay will actually be a raise for most if not all pilots on flat pay.
That’s frigging sad but true…

[Ash Ketchum]

I'm on flat pay and myself as well as 95%+ of the other pilots on flat pay will vote in the strike if it comes to that. We have the least to lose out of the whole pilot group as we don't have to worry about losing tons of seniority if things don't work out and we end up at another employer.

[GeoffPilot]

They've got all the flat payers by the balls too imo. Many cant afford to strike when the time comes, even when its the only hope. Please prove me wrong.

Lol...flat payers won't strike for a week or 2 to make gains for the rest of their careers

elgordo777...GTFO

[PositiveRate27]

They've got all the flat payers by the balls too imo. Many cant afford to strike when the time comes, even when its the only hope. Please prove me wrong.

Lol...flat payers won't strike for a week or 2 to make gains for the rest of their careers

elgordo777...GTFO

Yup, let’s also not forget that the flat payers all got laid off. They know what it’s like to miss a meal and they know it will be for a very short lived. They also turned down a 30-60% raise in the MOA and are very united in making sizeable gains. They can see well beyond the scare tactic of the day and the horizon of this round of negots. They understand the assignment. The flat pay pilots are not going to be the issue when it comes time to strike. If one thinks that this ALPA wave originated from the mid to high end seniority range then one truly has no idea what’s happening at this company.
A culture shock to the system doesn’t begin to do it justice.

[a2btrail]

Agreed. Flat payers are united to see beyond short term gains.

[rooster]

I think if anything, the new hires and flat payers will be the ones to carry this contract to victory for everyone and the old crusty captains who are happy to pick up all the overtime and are historically the ones to leave the junior pilots to fend for themselves will benefit from their resolve. Your time is over old farts. You're just keeping the seats warm for the next gen. Do them a favor and just bounce into the sunset. While they were enjoying their summers, you guys should have left to enjoy retirement. BYEEEEEE

Rooting for you AC pilots!!!!

[JHR]

I think if anything, the new hires and flat payers will be the ones to carry this contract to victory for everyone and the old crusty captains who are happy to pick up all the overtime and are historically the ones to leave the junior pilots to fend for themselves will benefit from their resolve. Your time is over old farts. You're just keeping the seats warm for the next gen. Do them a favor and just bounce into the sunset. While they were enjoying their summers, you guys should have left to enjoy retirement. BYEEEEEE

Rooting for you AC pilots!!!!

Please print out what you wrote and put it on display in your house for the day you become old so you can reflect on it.

[Fanblade]

I think if anything, the new hires and flat payers will be the ones to carry this contract to victory for everyone and the old crusty captains who are happy to pick up all the overtime and are historically the ones to leave the junior pilots to fend for themselves will benefit from their resolve. Your time is over old farts. You're just keeping the seats warm for the next gen. Do them a favor and just bounce into the sunset. While they were enjoying their summers, you guys should have left to enjoy retirement. BYEEEEEE

Rooting for you AC pilots!!!!

Please print out what you wrote and put it on display in your house for the day you become old so you can reflect on it.

Better yet read it everyday NOW and ask yourself this question.

Am I supporting Unity or am I sabotaging it?

He who sabotages Unity sabotages the end goal.

Is there a difference between sabotaging Unity by doing VO or by words?

Everyone knows the senior demographic has been slow to come around. Everyone knows it has been frustrating.

Unity dictates we need everyone. No divisions. Guns at the company. Not inward on anyone or any group.

Lead by example. More and more of the senior demographic is coming around as they see how professional the ACA MEC is.

Picket
Pod Cast
Awesome MEC Chair
Communications

It's impressing people

[co-joe]

What does -VO- stand for again? I see it but what do those letters mean?

I think it means voluntary overtime. As in picking up flights on your days off for extra money as opposed to being drafted or forced to work days off. Not sure of the context it was used here.

[RippleRock]

What does -VO- stand for again? I see it but what do those letters mean?

I think it means voluntary overtime. As in picking up flights on your days off for extra money as opposed to being drafted or forced to work days off. Not sure of the context it was used here.

I was joking. No one is forced into a draft scenario or into days off, it's all voluntary. There are no excuses for it. None.

The thing is, those "old guys" that are "working against unity" are the EXACT ones who owe the new hires the most. They, like me (cuz I'm old) were the exact people that refused to bargain for those "not yet on the property".

They never stood up for you, they never supported you, they ALLOWED the contract to stagnate, they ALLOWED four year flat pay, and here some of of them are "actively" undermining your effort.

They, of all people should be 100% behind this movement. They should be supporting you 100% and more. They left 1/3 of this pilot group with a huge mess to clean up. The very least they can do is grab a damn broom and help.

They should feel 100% guilty about what they have not done to help you in the past, and what they are doing now. It's about unity.

There are NO HALL PASSES FOR UNITY. No one gets one.

[rudder]

Awesome MEC Chair

It's impressing people

When is the last time those two words appeared in the same sentence……

Congrats. Keep up the good work.

[rooster]

I think if anything, the new hires and flat payers will be the ones to carry this contract to victory for everyone and the old crusty captains who are happy to pick up all the overtime and are historically the ones to leave the junior pilots to fend for themselves will benefit from their resolve. Your time is over old farts. You're just keeping the seats warm for the next gen. Do them a favor and just bounce into the sunset. While they were enjoying their summers, you guys should have left to enjoy retirement. BYEEEEEE

Rooting for you AC pilots!!!!

Please print out what you wrote and put it on display in your house for the day you become old so you can reflect on it.

Why? I hear it's the senior guys who are close to retirement who couldn't give a f**k about the union's resolve and are licking their chops at the overtime. 4 captains on the overseas flights cuz the FO's would rather enjoy the beautiful summer we are still having than pick it up themselves? Winners!! No I think as offensive as my statement might come to the older folk, there is absolute truth to it. Get on board or GTFO. All eyes are on the AC pilots and what you do now will make history for better or for worse. GLTA!

[sportingrifle]

I’m old.
I don’t do VO.
I stood on the informational picket line outside the terminal in YYZ.
I have walked two picket lines that produced much needed changes to our employment contracts that are still benefitting junior pilots today.
And you think I am the reason your career isn’t what you think it should be?
Our unions have made a lot of big mistakes in the past. My fear is that the next generation, ignorant of history, is going to repeat many of them.

[Blueontop]

I’m old.
I don’t do VO.
I stood on the informational picket line outside the terminal in YYZ.
I have walked two picket lines that produced much needed changes to our employment contracts that are still benefitting junior pilots today.
And you think I am the reason your career isn’t what you think it should be?
Our unions have made a lot of big mistakes in the past. My fear is that the next generation, ignorant of history, is going to repeat many of them.

Could you elaborate on the big mistakes or contract reversals your concerned the new breed could make? Genuinely interested