I give up on Canadian airlines

[CaptDukeNukem]

If it works for Nurses (Hospitals/Provinces are desperate for Nurses), and many quit there full time, burn-out job, only to sign-on with an Agency, that pays them twice as much, and they (the Nurse).. can pretty much dictate where and when they wish to work!
Are we headed that way? (over worked and under-payed)

I guess that depends on whether tax payers will pay for pilots like they do for nurses.

[BigQ]

FYI for all looking into going to the US.

If you go there on a worker's visa, and thus get a green card, may I advise to NEVER become a US citizen. It is a guaranteed mountain of paperwork for the rest of your life, whereas a green card holder has all the benefits for none of the restrictions (minus the right to vote for the shitty politician-in-chief and the privilege to being drafted for the Selected Service).

The greatest fiscal paradise on earth is the US for green card holders.
The greatest fiscal nightmare on earth is the US for it's citizens

Completely false. A green card holder is required to file and pay US taxes just as a US citizen would. They actually face the disadvantage of not being able to file a US non-resident tax return because they will lose their green card if they do.
The only slight advantage to remaining a green card holder would be that there is no cost if you decide to just give it up whereas a citizen would pay a couple grand to relinquish their citizenship.
As far as a mountain of paper work, I've filed a couple of quick one page returns easily by myself claiming foreign tax credits. Pretty easy.
Becoming a citizen allows multiple advantages, primarily the ability to travel and work overseas as long as you want without losing status.
Best of all, you never have to worry about being deported back to Canada where you would face sub-par wages, over priced housing and inadequate health care.

You file and pay taxes as a citizen would, but the paperwork involved as a green card holder vs a citizen when it comes to saving for retirement is minuscule. There are MANY loopholes that disappear when you get citizenship

[newlygrounded]

FYI for all looking into going to the US.

If you go there on a worker's visa, and thus get a green card, may I advise to NEVER become a US citizen. It is a guaranteed mountain of paperwork for the rest of your life, whereas a green card holder has all the benefits for none of the restrictions (minus the right to vote for the shitty politician-in-chief and the privilege to being drafted for the Selected Service).

The greatest fiscal paradise on earth is the US for green card holders.
The greatest fiscal nightmare on earth is the US for it's citizens

Completely false. A green card holder is required to file and pay US taxes just as a US citizen would. They actually face the disadvantage of not being able to file a US non-resident tax return because they will lose their green card if they do.
The only slight advantage to remaining a green card holder would be that there is no cost if you decide to just give it up whereas a citizen would pay a couple grand to relinquish their citizenship.
As far as a mountain of paper work, I've filed a couple of quick one page returns easily by myself claiming foreign tax credits. Pretty easy.
Becoming a citizen allows multiple advantages, primarily the ability to travel and work overseas as long as you want without losing status.
Best of all, you never have to worry about being deported back to Canada where you would face sub-par wages, over priced housing and inadequate health care.

You file and pay taxes as a citizen would, but the paperwork involved as a green card holder vs a citizen when it comes to saving for retirement is minuscule. There are MANY loopholes that disappear when you get citizenship

what are some of the loopholes?

[BE02 Driver]

FYI for all looking into going to the US.

If you go there on a worker's visa, and thus get a green card, may I advise to NEVER become a US citizen. It is a guaranteed mountain of paperwork for the rest of your life, whereas a green card holder has all the benefits for none of the restrictions (minus the right to vote for the shitty politician-in-chief and the privilege to being drafted for the Selected Service).

The greatest fiscal paradise on earth is the US for green card holders.
The greatest fiscal nightmare on earth is the US for it's citizens

The burden of a tax return is the same for Permanent Residents and Citizens. The largest benefit of becoming a Citizen is you are eligible to receive both your social security benefit and Medicare at age 65. You pay for it your entire US career, and loose it all if you are not a Citizen.
Shame to turn all that tax money over just to loose it over not wanting to become a Citizen.

The final benefit of becoming a US Citizen is you can wipe your a** with your Canadian Passport and mail it to JT at 24 Sussex Dr.

[cjp]

What is the potential for us - collectively as a group and an industry to turn this ship around?

Make it desirable to become a pilot again for the younger generations, while putting measures in place to protect our careers.

How do we elect our leaders at TC? How do we remove weak links?

I think we need to ask some hard questions and really hash out some answers to fix this (if it can be). It's easy to throw in the towel and be uncaring about an industry going up in flames. I too was considering for a brief period moving to the U.S - the more I looked at it, the more I was thinking about things around the job, rather than just the (MEGA) USD salary.

Regarding the U.S - housing is still very expensive for any of the metropolis'. Tax rates are lower, but there are other costs associated with living - and yes health insurance is one of them. Property taxes for some states can be fairly high as well, and vary depending on the area of the city you are living. You'll also want to privately educate your kids - not that Canada is a beacon for international education.

I felt like I wanted to just pull the ejection handle and get out of here, but the more I look internationally the more I want to repair what we have here.

Anyone with me on this?

Yes, we should go back to the table and bring Turks under our wing as a Canadian territory. Perhaps P.P can organize this. /S!

[Smilin' Jack]

It starts with Air Canada.

Westjet won't ever pay more than Air Canada, because they are in a highly competitive market with Air Canada as their main competitor,
Flair won't pay more than WestJet because they are in a highly competitive market with WestJet as their main competitor,
Lynx won't pay more than Flair because they are in a highly competitive market with Flair as their main competitor. See above.

Air Canada is negotiating salaries for the entire Canadian market, not that they care.

My guess is that AC will settle for a 35-40% increase and a bunch of lifestyle changes. Flat pay will continue and new hires will continue to be thrown under the bus. None of the changes will put them within spitting distance of the international market rate.

It goes beyond only the salary. It's the vaule for dollars in tax money paid and the high cost of living in any major Canadian city. What's the cheapest base that any of the major airlines operate from? Edmonton maybe??

[Canadaflyer46]

It starts with Air Canada.

Westjet won't ever pay more than Air Canada, because they are in a highly competitive market with Air Canada as their main competitor,
Flair won't pay more than WestJet because they are in a highly competitive market with WestJet as their main competitor,
Lynx won't pay more than Flair because they are in a highly competitive market with Flair as their main competitor. See above.

Air Canada is negotiating salaries for the entire Canadian market, not that they care.

My guess is that AC will settle for a 35-40% increase and a bunch of lifestyle changes. Flat pay will continue and new hires will continue to be thrown under the bus. None of the changes will put them within spitting distance of the international market rate.

It goes beyond only the salary. It's the vaule for dollars in tax money paid and the high cost of living in any major Canadian city. What's the cheapest base that any of the major airlines operate from? Edmonton maybe??

The lifestyle changes are long overdue. I'm a bit more pessimistic with your forecast on the pay rise. WestJet settled for a 15% raise (7% when considering inflation), so I don't see a 40% raise as close to achievable. Unless a strike is allowed and the MEC doesn't cave at the last second for a subpar offer like at WJ. I truly hope I'm wrong. Wishing the AC folk all the best.

[throwawaycorporate]

The lifestyle changes are long overdue. I'm a bit more pessimistic with your forecast on the pay rise. WestJet settled for a 15% raise (7% when considering inflation), so I don't see a 40% raise as close to achievable. Unless a strike is allowed and the MEC doesn't cave at the last second for a subpar offer like at WJ. I truly hope I'm wrong. Wishing the AC folk all the best.

Westjet's #1 concern was scope, now it's airtight. They got a decent raise, above AC for both types and a complete overhaul of take home pay and lifestyle improvements. Next time more of the focus can be on matching/leapfrogging AC.

Also from the outside I can see AC getting US rates dollar for dollar, no currency adjustment.

[flyingcanuck]

Rumor is they offered 30 something % without the lifestyle changes

[kiaszceski]

Rumor is they offered 30 something % without the lifestyle changes

another 40 and a good lifestyle change and it might go through...

[DanWEC]

. Double.

[Lt. Daniel Kaffee]

The burden of a tax return is the same for Permanent Residents and Citizens. The largest benefit of becoming a Citizen is you are eligible to receive both your social security benefit and Medicare at age 65. You pay for it your entire US career, and loose it all if you are not a Citizen.
Shame to turn all that tax money over just to loose it over not wanting to become a Citizen.

BS...my parents lived in the US as Resident Aliens, returned to Canada, and at age 65 collected US Social Security as well as CPP and OAS....

[DanWEC]

Awesome. Published inflation from 2013 is exactly 30%.

I just read a release from ACPA in 2014:

"Air Canada has reached a tentative agreement with its pilots that will provide labour peace for 10 years and increase the airline’s flexibility amid stiffer competition from WestJet Airlines Ltd. and potential new entrants to the Canadian market."

" ... pilots bought into the airline's growth plans by providing it with increased flexibility to add airplanes and different types of aircraft at the mainline and Rouge low-cost carrier."


If it wasn't so undermining and tragic it would otherwise be funny to remark on how utterly transparent this was.

[rudder]

The burden of a tax return is the same for Permanent Residents and Citizens. The largest benefit of becoming a Citizen is you are eligible to receive both your social security benefit and Medicare at age 65. You pay for it your entire US career, and loose it all if you are not a Citizen.
Shame to turn all that tax money over just to loose it over not wanting to become a Citizen.

BS...my parents lived in the US as Resident Aliens, returned to Canada, and at age 65 collected US Social Security as well as CPP and OAS....

CPP and Social Security are contributory benefits. If you paid in then you will receive the formula benefits.

OAS requires residency, and is prorated for time after age 18 spent as a non-resident outside Canada.