Gregor wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:54 pm Sure, Porter pays well, but really?

Gregor wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:54 pm No knock on Porter but it takes a lot less to get to 80 hrs when you're flying 8 hour legs as opposed to 1.

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:17 pm

Gregor wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:54 pm Sure, Porter pays well, but really?

Yes really.

Gregor wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:54 pm No knock on Porter but it takes a lot less to get to 80 hrs when you're flying 8 hour legs as opposed to 1.

True. But I'd sure as hell rather do four legs than one eight-hour leg. Long haul sucks. It's not for everybody. I've done both and I much prefer shorter flights.

Tbayer2021 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:31 pm

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:17 pm

Gregor wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:54 pm Sure, Porter pays well, but really?

Yes really.

Gregor wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:54 pm No knock on Porter but it takes a lot less to get to 80 hrs when you're flying 8 hour legs as opposed to 1.

True. But I'd sure as hell rather do four legs than one eight-hour leg. Long haul sucks. It's not for everybody. I've done both and I much prefer shorter flights.

This right here.

A certain type of flying isn't inherently better for any reason other than personal. Porter has raised its pay to be not only competitive, but leading in some aspects. Not sure what the rest of the compensation package looks like, but their pay has certainly moved in the right direction.

There is no argument that transat offers more exotic destinations and medium to long haul flying. But guess what? Not everyone cares about that! I know people at Transat that only did FLL turns before transat pulled out of there. They couldn't give two shits about Europe layovers. They wanted quick turns at civilized hours of the day. They're not very happy now that Porter is doing those legs for them lol.

cdnavater wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:41 am Oh, that’s quite interesting, what kind of language does AT pilots have regarding joint venture?
It seems that this type of thing may come back to bite Porter pilots in the butt sooner than later, without a solid CBA and language regarding your flying,nits really a matter of time before AT 321 makes sense on routes vs an E2. When the bean counters get involved unless there is something preventing them from saving 3 cents per passenger, they don’t care if it’s flying you like and shortens your month for you.
Been there, Jazz pilots used to enjoy scope protections that were enshrined in the AC pilots CBA, when they(AC pilots) gave that up we were at the mercy of the lowest bidding taking the best flying we used to do. Man, I wish we had some way to have prevented that in the first place, once that horse leaves the barn, it’s near impossible to get it back in. The result, where we are today, having difficulty staffing our airline and AC once again farming out work using our staffing as justification. Someone else will be flying CRJ 900s in the near future, I just don’t know who yet, mark my words it is happening!

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:57 pm Transat dropped Florida and most of the domestic flying to focus on what the 321 LR was designed for, long haul flying. Coupled with the P&W engine issues, they are trying to maximize cycles.

Our scope offers protection for the % of passengers on TsC flights flown by TSC pilots and a % of those flights have to be wide bodies.

cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 8:09 am

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:57 pm Transat dropped Florida and most of the domestic flying to focus on what the 321 LR was designed for, long haul flying. Coupled with the P&W engine issues, they are trying to maximize cycles.

Our scope offers protection for the % of passengers on TsC flights flown by TSC pilots and a % of those flights have to be wide bodies.

So, have you increased the amount of long haul flying since dropping the domestic/transborder flying?
Increased frequency or new destinations added or is this another management spin?

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:00 pm

cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 8:09 am

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:57 pm Transat dropped Florida and most of the domestic flying to focus on what the 321 LR was designed for, long haul flying. Coupled with the P&W engine issues, they are trying to maximize cycles.

Our scope offers protection for the % of passengers on TsC flights flown by TSC pilots and a % of those flights have to be wide bodies.

So, have you increased the amount of long haul flying since dropping the domestic/transborder flying?
Increased frequency or new destinations added or is this another management spin?

Some new destinations like Lima have been added and frequency increases on some routes. There are other new routes announced and more frequency coming. The Pratt engine is a huge issue and it's affecting expansion plans and life on the line. At this point, it's my biggest concern with working at TS.

cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:25 pm

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:00 pm

cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 8:09 am

So, have you increased the amount of long haul flying since dropping the domestic/transborder flying?
Increased frequency or new destinations added or is this another management spin?

Some new destinations like Lima have been added and frequency increases on some routes. There are other new routes announced and more frequency coming. The Pratt engine is a huge issue and it's affecting expansion plans and life on the line. At this point, it's my biggest concern with working at TS.

Yikes, is that all you have in the fleet right now?
You mentioned reducing cycles before, I always thought it was TBO, which long haul would obviously use up more of. Is the something specific about these engines that cycles reduce the TBO?
At Jazz we keep track of landing cycles but I always assumed that had to do with landing gear overhaul

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:40 pm

cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:25 pm

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:00 pm

Some new destinations like Lima have been added and frequency increases on some routes. There are other new routes announced and more frequency coming. The Pratt engine is a huge issue and it's affecting expansion plans and life on the line. At this point, it's my biggest concern with working at TS.

Yikes, is that all you have in the fleet right now?
You mentioned reducing cycles before, I always thought it was TBO, which long haul would obviously use up more of. Is the something specific about these engines that cycles reduce the TBO?
At Jazz we keep track of landing cycles but I always assumed that had to do with landing gear overhaul

All the 321 NEO are PW. The affected engines require an inspection at 2800 cycles and then at 5500 it's an overhaul (off the top of my head so don't hold me to those numbers)

cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:47 pm

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:40 pm

cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:25 pm
Yikes, is that all you have in the fleet right now?
You mentioned reducing cycles before, I always thought it was TBO, which long haul would obviously use up more of. Is the something specific about these engines that cycles reduce the TBO?
At Jazz we keep track of landing cycles but I always assumed that had to do with landing gear overhaul

All the 321 NEO are PW. The affected engines require an inspection at 2800 cycles and then at 5500 it's an overhaul (off the top of my head so don't hold me to those numbers)

So based on that, long haul flying would get you to overhaul quicker than Florida turns, wouldn’t it?

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:56 pm

cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:47 pm

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:40 pm

All the 321 NEO are PW. The affected engines require an inspection at 2800 cycles and then at 5500 it's an overhaul (off the top of my head so don't hold me to those numbers)

So based on that, long haul flying would get you to overhaul quicker than Florida turns, wouldn’t it?

Cycles not hours. So to answer your question, no.

cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:03 pm

TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:56 pm

cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:47 pm
So based on that, long haul flying would get you to overhaul quicker than Florida turns, wouldn’t it?

Cycles not hours. So to answer your question, no.

Hang on, it’s an either or?
Inspection at 2800 cycles and overhaul at 5500 cycles? I assumed 5500 was hours

MD11 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:53 am Good morning,

I'm currently a corporate pilot and looking to jump to the airlines. Home based with my employer now but basically away up to 16 days a month. I'm torn between an F/O position on Porter's E2 or Air Transat's A321/A330 if offered a position. Both options are appealing to me with each having their pros and cons. I'm not sure which company I would want to hang my hat at but lifestyle is a big thing for me. I like flying in moderation and having time at home to pursue other passions and still enjoy going to work. I have reached out to friends at both companies but I'm still looking for more info/insights from others.

With the new E2 bases announced, I would hopefully get my current home base awarded and it would make life "easy". Downside being domestic/transborder flights only and likely still doing multiple day pairings away from home. Payscale in year 2 would surpasses what I make at my current employer. Can anyone here describe how many days you are home or nights spent away? I'm aware overtime is highly available and upgrading on the E2 in my position could be as soon as 2-3 years.

As for Transat, I would have to commute to YUL which is doable if you have a schedule, but on reserve as I understood it I would basically need a crashpad. Supposedly reserve is short lived with all the hiring happening. Never tried transatlantic flying and not keen on the jetlag, but I can't know for sure until I tried. I hear destinations, environment and lifestyle are excellent with time at home actually being more than Porter? A321 is the way to go if offered either type apparently with turns available to bid on for high credits. Payscale is weak though I hear it will drastically improve in 2025 along with other reserve rules and commuting policies.

Thanks in advance and I appreciate all other replies in this thread.

slob driver wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:29 amtheir group seems to think they’re different from all the rest and don’t need ALPA. I guess we shall see where all that goes.

slob driver wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:29 am

MD11 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:53 am

Hi there,

I thought I’d give my two cents as a person who is on the outside looking in as I am a pilot for wj.
I’ve flown in the back on both, and they each have a great product, but for a career, I’d go towards Transat.
-Both have bases in yyz and you’ll be able to hold yyz either right away or shortly after starting (since yyz is junior base for trz)
-Payscales are comparable for now, but Transat will get a big raise in the future due wj’s ca, and ac ca coming right away. Trz will pattern off those two. I know the PD fan folk will say that they will pattern off as well, but it’s not really a collective agreement pattern bargain when you aren’t certified. The PD FOAG is not a Collective Agreement, and it shows. Reminds me of the WJPA “agreement” we at wj had before ALPA. As well, the TRZ contract is more mature from a working conditions standpoint versus what Porter has. Without ALPA on property, can Porter get yos, better rigs, insurance? What type of scope will Porter get? Those are big cost items and the corp won’t give them away. It’s easy to be taken in by pay scales. There’s so much more to a pilot’s daily working life than pay scales. ….If Porter unionized tomorrow, it would be 1-2 years for a Collective Agreement. Unlikely that this will happen since their group seems to think they’re different from all the rest and don’t need ALPA. I guess we shall see where all that goes.
Talking to Trz peeps I’ve known, they have great lifestyles. I have been led to believe that’s what drives folks to stay there versus ac. A very civilized type of flying in their niche. With AC and WS, you are a widget that is there to create asm’s for the corporation, while at Transat it seems that isn’t the case as much. It has always seemed their pilots have a constructive relationship with their management.
Regarding financial stability, I’d choose Transat every day of the week. While their financials are still messy from covid with debt maturity a true problem, they aren’t going anywhere. They may go into ccaa at some point, but just as AC is Canada’s’ airline and WestJet is Alberta’s airline, Transat is the pride of Quebec. Heck, one of their founders is the premier of the province! At the very worst, they might close the yyz base (highly unlikely) and you’d have to commute to YUL on AC. That’s hardly even a commute in my eyes;). Transat is going nowhere. Porter though…
The E2 growth that they are placing in the market is questionable. I think we can all recognize that they are attempting to grow into profitability or attempting to become such a thorn in the side of the two main national carriers that they are bought out.
If you get a chance, look at Lynx’s financials in their public affidavits that were filed just prior to ccaa. They lost $112,000,000 in 2023! With 9 airplanes! I am not saying that PD is losing that kind of cash, but I would be shocked if they’re making money. That would concern me. An airline can lose cash very quickly. And as Lynx has shown, an investment/pension/hedge fund does have a limit to what they’re willing to lose.
I truly wish all the best to both PD and Transat pilots, but for the above reasons, I’d choose Transat

DanWEC wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:13 pm All accurate opinions.
It comes down to what you want. If you're DEC eligible you can make much more at Porter right off the hop, but you'll work a lot more- for some that doesn't matter. It's the personal preference of work to live vs live to work.

There are many places where you can make more $$ than Transat but I doubt there's an airline job in Canada that offers the flexibility to work as little as you can at TS. Personally I think it's a fantastic company that generally values employees and work-life balance, and no, it's not going anywhere. Even if CCAA ever hits it'll just be restructuring and debt relief a la AC. There's nothing inherently non-viable about the company, structure, operating environment etc, it's just the gov't imposed debt that's a critical burden. It would also be horrible PR and terribly irresponsible of the gov't to drive such a large company to failure purely because of it, however I don't know exactly how that factor will play out.

Porter's salary is great, it's modern and up-to-date, but I don't see any reason why Transat's long-overdue update won't be quite a bit higher, generally pay is comesurate with A/C size, they're just lagging behind right now.

8895 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:36 pm Porter has a pile of cash and plenty of ways to get more while the industry consolidates post Covid. Short to mid term I wouldn’t even bat an eye about worrying for the operation.

SPR wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:51 pm

8895 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:36 pm Porter has a pile of cash and plenty of ways to get more while the industry consolidates post Covid. Short to mid term I wouldn’t even bat an eye about worrying for the operation.

What are you basing this on?