The end of Flair?

[cor_18]

The question should be , how many flight bookings did NOT occur over those three days ?

[PostmasterGeneral]

The walls are crumbling around Flair. Won't be long now.

[cdnavater]

Problem is, he is so blind that the building is crumbling around him but he doesn’t see it, he’s just sitting at the table sipping on his koolaid.
The “glitches” are frequent and not conducive to a successful outcome. How many people will think twice about booking with Flair due to these problems.
Anyhow, good luck to the Flair employees, I hope you bounce back

More than 14 000 people didn't think twice about buying tickets on Flair once the online payment thing was sorted out. Nearly a one day record for us.

We're doing something right here folks, bringing affordable air travel to Canadians. cdnavater and the rest of the WS fan bois are threatened. They are running scared to their keyboards to spout drivel online about us, because that's all they have.

WS fan bois, that’s funny! You won’t find any posts made from me praising WJ, at least non I can remember. I’ve always been critical about companies that use pilot wages to make money and drive the airfares down, which is why I’m also not a Flair fan either.
14,000 bookings after they fixed the site is “almost” a one day record, how many were from the weekend, how many did you lose because they gave up?
Anyhow, another crisis averted for now, how many is that now, losing track of them!

[Old fella]

Problem is, he is so blind that the building is crumbling around him but he doesn’t see it, he’s just sitting at the table sipping on his koolaid.
The “glitches” are frequent and not conducive to a successful outcome. How many people will think twice about booking with Flair due to these problems.
Anyhow, good luck to the Flair employees, I hope you bounce back

More than 14 000 people didn't think twice about buying tickets on Flair once the online payment thing was sorted out. Nearly a one day record for us.

We're doing something right here folks, bringing affordable air travel to Canadians. cdnavater and the rest of the WS fan bois are threatened. They are running scared to their keyboards to spout drivel online about us, because that's all they have.

“ Bringing affordable air travel to Canadians”. Ok, fair statement. As a rep of the general travelling public - older demographic, guess the question going forward is one of “ dependability”. Is your airline sustainable under its significant debt load that we as travellers are reading about in the MSM. Lynx was sunk due the same circumstances as Flair is under. We are not hearing about other Canadian Airlines battling same circumstances as Flair. Past due accounts have to be paid at some point or the roof will cave in, same for suppliers of services aka fuel, NC charges etc.

[boeingboy]

We're doing something right here folks, bringing affordable air travel to Canadians.

Your doing everything wrong - and the fact you can't see that is almost comical.

[Stratopaused]

More than 14 000 people didn't think twice about buying tickets on Flair once the online payment thing was sorted out. Nearly a one day record for us.

How many of those bought one of the sub-$50 deals? Not only that, but that's the total price; the fare on a $29 ticket is $15.50. Add in the 20% discount code that's available for all bookings, and that brings it down to $12.40. Even if 14000 people bought tickets, and even if we're generous and assume an average fare of $50, minus 20% for actual revenues of $40/person, that's only $560000/day. Stephen Jones stated the company's expenses are greater than $1 million/day, so it's pretty safe to assume that Flair is pissing money into the wind. Even on a record-setting day for sales, you're losing hundreds of thousands of dollars!

[ChrisB]

More than 14 000 people didn't think twice about buying tickets on Flair once the online payment thing was sorted out. Nearly a one day record for us.

How many of those bought one of the sub-$50 deals? Not only that, but that's the total price; the fare on a $29 ticket is $15.50. Add in the 20% discount code that's available for all bookings, and that brings it down to $12.40. Even if 14000 people bought tickets, and even if we're generous and assume an average fare of $50, minus 20% for actual revenues of $40/person, that's only $560000/day. Stephen Jones stated the company's expenses are greater than $1 million/day, so it's pretty safe to assume that Flair is pissing money into the wind. Even on a record-setting day for sales, you're losing hundreds of thousands of dollars!

Have you ever booked a flight with flair? I probably average around $350 per booking. Still the cheapest option.

[boeingboy]

More than 14 000 people didn't think twice about buying tickets on Flair once the online payment thing was sorted out. Nearly a one day record for us.

How many of those bought one of the sub-$50 deals? Not only that, but that's the total price; the fare on a $29 ticket is $15.50. Add in the 20% discount code that's available for all bookings, and that brings it down to $12.40. Even if 14000 people bought tickets, and even if we're generous and assume an average fare of $50, minus 20% for actual revenues of $40/person, that's only $560000/day. Stephen Jones stated the company's expenses are greater than $1 million/day, so it's pretty safe to assume that Flair is pissing money into the wind. Even on a record-setting day for sales, you're losing hundreds of thousands of dollars!

Have you ever booked a flight with flair? I probably average around $350 per booking. Still the cheapest option.

....and? Sure there are going to be ones like yourself that pay more - but I also know of many that just pay the 30,40,50 bucks to travel. The average joe public will travel as cheap as they can.

Look no further than Lynx. In a year they had $100 million in ticket revenue.......but only $6 million in ancillary sales. For a segment that basically relies on those sales to survive - that doesn't bode very well for them.

[ChrisB]

How many of those bought one of the sub-$50 deals? Not only that, but that's the total price; the fare on a $29 ticket is $15.50. Add in the 20% discount code that's available for all bookings, and that brings it down to $12.40. Even if 14000 people bought tickets, and even if we're generous and assume an average fare of $50, minus 20% for actual revenues of $40/person, that's only $560000/day. Stephen Jones stated the company's expenses are greater than $1 million/day, so it's pretty safe to assume that Flair is pissing money into the wind. Even on a record-setting day for sales, you're losing hundreds of thousands of dollars!

Have you ever booked a flight with flair? I probably average around $350 per booking. Still the cheapest option.

....and? Sure there are going to be ones like yourself that pay more - but I also know of many that just pay the 30,40,50 bucks to travel. The average joe public will travel as cheap as they can.

Look no further than Lynx. In a year they had $100 million in ticket revenue.......but only $6 million in ancillary sales. For a segment that basically relies on those sales to survive - that doesn't bode very well for them.

I have yet to be on one of their flights where the overhead bins ($50ea) wern't full or close to full or lines of people with checked baggage at checkin.

There are sub $50 fares for people who plan their lives better than I do, but I'd imagine most book the month of and pay triple like me.

[lostaviator]

Cheap airfares and “helping Canadians” means absolutely nothing if you aren’t making enough to pay your bills, creditors, and tax man.

[Canadaflyer46]

$1.6 million owed to the CRA on April 1st. Wonder what accounting/website/banking issue will be blamed for that payment not going through.

[Stratopaused]

If Flair is doing so well financially, why do they have a sale on for next winter? They're selling cut-rate tickets on bookings for a year from now, when this beach season hasn't even ended and no one is thinking about where they'll be going next March. That's just insanity unless they're so desperately in need of cash to make their April 1 CRA payment that they're almost literally having a fire sale. They're paying today's bills with next year's revenues. That really rings a JetsGo bell for some reason...

[Realitychex]

When an airline has a record amount of capacity in the market thereby incurring record daily costs, they better be having record sales days every day to to cover the increased costs.

News flash folks: The latter half of March and first week of April, (depending on the Easter l/w timing), is no different than the last 14 days of Dec and the first 7 days of Jan.

Once this peak is over, its a 60 day cliff with massively reduced demand until March / Summer break, (with Feb family day / May l/w generating a bump). Same sh*t, different timing.

WestJet's, (and AC's), slowest quarter was always the April-June quarter. I'm all ears to hear why this wouldn't be the case at Flair or Porter.

What happened to Flair from Jan 9th to March 7th will be repeated between April 8th and June 21st.

The bills from the avg 19.7m daily asm's flown during peak March have to paid with revenues generated by from 15.9m daily asms in April and May, (as described by Flair's recent public admissions of capacity reductions in shoulder seasons), no different than what occurred in Jan and Feb.

Flair incurred a revenue shortfall of no less than $5m and likely closer to $7.5m a s a result of the 4 days of lost bookings last week.

That revenue will never be recovered. If it was as simple as that, all airlines would cut costs by simply shutting down their reservations from Friday noon to Monday noon every week.

They don't.

[Hangry]

We're doing something right here folks, bringing affordable air travel to Canadians.

Your doing everything wrong - and the fact you can't see that is almost comical.

It’s not funny at all. It’s sad.

[DanWEC]

This antagonism towards Flair is totally misplaced.
All they're is doing wrong is possibly failing against a government who've created a hostile aviation environment that is 7 times more expensive to operate in than our neighbours, and the most expensive operating structure in the entire G20.

Maybe let's stop shitting on them and look, united, to change the real enemy of margins and profits in Canada, and ultimately the cause of our embarrassing earnings.

Our transportation folio, especially aviation, has been in a deep decline for years, and seems increasingly dysfunctional and oppressive as of late. Personally, I think it's time something has to change.

[co-joe]

Look no further than Lynx. In a year they had $100 million in ticket revenue.......but only $6 million in ancillary sales. For a segment that basically relies on those sales to survive - that doesn't bode very well for them.

Lynx had no buy on board at all, their only ancillary revenue was from bags. Pretty hard to make a profit when your only in-flight service is cups of water.

[Hangry]

This antagonism towards Flair is totally misplaced.
All they're is doing wrong is possibly failing against a government who've created a hostile aviation environment that is 7 times more expensive to operate in than our neighbours, and the most expensive operating structure in the entire G20.

Maybe let's stop shitting on them and look, united, to change the real enemy of margins and profits in Canada, and ultimately the cause of our embarrassing earnings.

Our transportation folio, especially aviation, has been in a deep decline for years, and seems increasingly dysfunctional and oppressive as of late. Personally, I think it's time something has to change.

Well said. No one hates Flair or its pilots. Everyone is wishing them success.

Pointing out delusional viewpoints doesn’t equate to hate.

[cdnavater]

Look no further than Lynx. In a year they had $100 million in ticket revenue.......but only $6 million in ancillary sales. For a segment that basically relies on those sales to survive - that doesn't bode very well for them.

Lynx had no buy on board at all, their only ancillary revenue was from bags. Pretty hard to make a profit when your only in-flight service is cups of water.

Co-joe, I kind of admire your steadfast commitment to your company in the face of significant evidence, your own CEO has stated they are not paying the high interest debt, that was during better times. While buy on board is revenue, thinking that is significant and the difference between Flair and Lynx is nothing short of delusional.
I’ve been on many Flair flights and I can say with certainty, keep in mind it’s anecdotal because we’re talking about my experience but every flight the BOB cart goes from beginning to end in a few minutes. Canadians are cheap, especially the ones flying Flair, they are the type who can’t justify 4.00 for a can of coke, so they wait until they can get to a Walmart and get it for 50 cents.
At this point the best you can hope for is a restructuring, if they can present a solid case for how they can become profitable otherwise it will get wound up.
What do you think your company owes at this point? Serious question, 400 million, 500, more?
Btw, a raise coming is not an indication that everything is fine, your union is getting what they can before you are negotiating inside bankruptcy.
Now, if you guys manage to get significant wage improvements without tons of concessions, bringing you up to industry standard for the type, I will cheer you on for success. As I said, my problem with Flair is making money by paying pilots less, that changes, so does my opinion about Flair. I won’t hold my breath, a wage increase with a roadshow absolutely means there are concessions. If it were just an increase, it would be here’s the LOU, enjoy!
Good luck

[boeingboy]

Look no further than Lynx. In a year they had $100 million in ticket revenue.......but only $6 million in ancillary sales. For a segment that basically relies on those sales to survive - that doesn't bode very well for them.

Lynx had no buy on board at all, their only ancillary revenue was from bags. Pretty hard to make a profit when your only in-flight service is cups of water.

I Highly doubt Flair is bringing in $100 million a year in BOB sales.

[boeingboy]

This antagonism towards Flair is totally misplaced.
All they're is doing wrong is possibly failing against a government who've created a hostile aviation environment that is 7 times more expensive to operate in than our neighbours, and the most expensive operating structure in the entire G20.

Maybe let's stop shitting on them and look, united, to change the real enemy of margins and profits in Canada, and ultimately the cause of our embarrassing earnings.

Our transportation folio, especially aviation, has been in a deep decline for years, and seems increasingly dysfunctional and oppressive as of late. Personally, I think it's time something has to change.

Is it????
No matter how cheap or expensive it is to run an airline.....or any business for that matter....in this country - those costs are known. To charge less than your basic operating costs, go broke, and then blame the government is ludacris. Flairs business is based on a ridiculous plan that has no hope of succeeding in it's current form.

[CpnCrunch]

Other than lower fees at Abbotsford, you would think most of the other costs would be similar. All the other airlines are also charging a fortune for bags and seat selection now. $150 for an extra legroom seat on both AC and WJ for transatlantic flights (used to be between $50 and $90 until this year).

Looking at their fares, I see Flair are offering a $39 fare from YXX-YEG on 17 April, presumably including all fees. AC is charging min $139 and WJ $169 for their bare bones fares from YVR-YEG that day. I'm pretty sure YVR isn't charging $100 per passenger seat in extra fees. Admittedly that is the cheapest fare I could see, and they are mostly between $79 and $139 for that route.

[Old fella]

This antagonism towards Flair is totally misplaced.
All they're is doing wrong is possibly failing against a government who've created a hostile aviation environment that is 7 times more expensive to operate in than our neighbours, and the most expensive operating structure in the entire G20.

Maybe let's stop shitting on them and look, united, to change the real enemy of margins and profits in Canada, and ultimately the cause of our embarrassing earnings.

Our transportation folio, especially aviation, has been in a deep decline for years, and seems increasingly dysfunctional and oppressive as of late. Personally, I think it's time something has to change.

Is it????
No matter how cheap or expensive it is to run an airline.....or any business for that matter....in this country - those costs are known. To charge less than your basic operating costs, go broke, and then blame the government is ludacris. Flairs business is based on a ridiculous plan that has no hope of succeeding in it's current form.

I agree with you Boeingboy. What part of the “ hostile aviation environment “ has sunk Lynx and possible Flair that hasn’t done in other big CDN carriers(AC,WJ, Jazz,Encore,Porter, Sunwing, AT,PAL…” ). They all operate under same service structures be it airport, NC, Security and the like.

Flair Airlines currently is like an individual who takes money from their credit card every month to meet obligations , increases the credit card spending limit while at same time can only meet the minimum monthly payment. At some point there will be a brick wall staring you in the face.

[newlygrounded]

Other than lower fees at Abbotsford, you would think most of the other costs would be similar. All the other airlines are also charging a fortune for bags and seat selection now. $150 for an extra legroom seat on both AC and WJ for transatlantic flights (used to be between $50 and $90 until this year).

Looking at their fares, I see Flair are offering a $39 fare from YXX-YEG on 17 April, presumably including all fees. AC is charging min $139 and WJ $169 for their bare bones fares from YVR-YEG that day. I'm pretty sure YVR isn't charging $100 per passenger seat in extra fees. Admittedly that is the cheapest fare I could see, and they are mostly between $79 and $139 for that route.

Isn't one of their benefits that they do a minimum amount of hotel stays for crew? Also I know for ryanair something like half their income is additional fees like carryons

[newlygrounded]

If Flair is doing so well financially, why do they have a sale on for next winter? They're selling cut-rate tickets on bookings for a year from now, when this beach season hasn't even ended and no one is thinking about where they'll be going next March. That's just insanity unless they're so desperately in need of cash to make their April 1 CRA payment that they're almost literally having a fire sale. They're paying today's bills with next year's revenues. That really rings a JetsGo bell for some reason...

They very likely don't get the cash until well after the flights are flown, lynx got 50% the day of the flight, and 50% a week after.