Encore pilots vote 79% yes to garbage 5yr contract

[cdnavater]

A yearly "2% bump" is NOT a raise. Pilots are DUMB if they think otherwise.
It WILL NOT keep up with core inflation. 2% is a LOSER every year, and it's a "compounded loss".


Compounded losses are EXPONENTIAL over the life of the career, and it will -drag- on any future gains. You guys understand what "drag" is, right??? Exponentially increacing drag = CRASH. It's like collecting ice faster and faster because the accumulation area keeps increacing with the more ice you collect.

Think of inflation as the ice, and your yearly increace as the ability to shed it.

The Encore business model has inflation already incorporated into their forward looking business plan, (because it would be stupid for a pilot not to think about icing, and the aircrafts ability to shed it before going flying...RIGHT???) The Company thinks about inflation and plans for it by using 2.5% or even 3.5% for that model, including employee pay, so at 2% you guys effectively put .5% to 1.5% right back into their pockets each year on an expense they already planned for, and are setting yourselves BACK an equal amount. Increacing your DRAG --EVERY YEAR--- because it's COMPOUNDED!!! Good work.

Question: Who would "willingly" negotiate a 2% "increace" per annum in an environment running at 2.8-3.8% inflation per year, thinking it's anything other than a loss???

Answer: No one with half a wits sense. Apparently nearly 80 something percent are just fine with that, or simply failed to consider it at all. I'm thinking the latter cuz pilots are a bit dumb in this country.


Remember 2% is the BANK of CANADA INFLATION TARGET....THAT'S BEST CASE. A 2% increace yearly is a noose around your neck that's getting TIGHTER and TIGHTER every year. I know math is hard, but a 2% increace in one year VS. a 2.1% rise in inflation = LESS BUYING POWER = BAD.


Crazy world is this. You certainly get what you negotiate though, that's a fact.

Obviously your have a point about inflation and the company planning for that but you fail to consider the damage done by the email from the union. There is no question what they were driving at with the underlying message, the threat to shutdown Encore was believed to be a real threat.
The pilots had to be mentally prepared for starting over and it appears 79% did not want to roll the dice.

[Timetoflyagain]

Because 79% most likely are just using encore as a stepping stone and in a few years are off to AC/Porter/Overseas. So might as well get a slight pay bump while getting your ATPL.

I love this

Let's be really shitty unionists and capture some sweet Fort St John's flying so I can build some hours to go somewhere else in hopes they aren't a bunch of pussies that also capture flying to do something else at discount

Always kicking the can down the road...until you realize this mentality just doesn't work...what comes around goes around

Encore should be expelled from ALPA for these results

….why would ALPA expel Encore? They get 5 years of dues to take back down south, offer nothing but tools, advice etc but even though the buck stops with them, ALPA enforces no minimum standards, no red lines, nothing of actual value (or we’d see better WOWCON’s driven by CBA’s instead of demographics and economics. Decertify and at least keep your 2%. That, and that alone might wake ALPA up.

[RippleRock]

.

[RippleRock]

A yearly "2% bump" is NOT a raise. Pilots are DUMB if they think otherwise.
It WILL NOT keep up with core inflation. 2% is a LOSER every year, and it's a "compounded loss".


Compounded losses are EXPONENTIAL over the life of the career, and it will -drag- on any future gains. You guys understand what "drag" is, right??? Exponentially increacing drag = CRASH. It's like collecting ice faster and faster because the accumulation area keeps increacing with the more ice you collect.

Think of inflation as the ice, and your yearly increace as the ability to shed it.

The Encore business model has inflation already incorporated into their forward looking business plan, (because it would be stupid for a pilot not to think about icing, and the aircrafts ability to shed it before going flying...RIGHT???) The Company thinks about inflation and plans for it by using 2.5% or even 3.5% for that model, including employee pay, so at 2% you guys effectively put .5% to 1.5% right back into their pockets each year on an expense they already planned for, and are setting yourselves BACK an equal amount. Increacing your DRAG --EVERY YEAR--- because it's COMPOUNDED!!! Good work.

Question: Who would "willingly" negotiate a 2% "increace" per annum in an environment running at 2.8-3.8% inflation per year, thinking it's anything other than a loss???

Answer: No one with half a wits sense. Apparently nearly 80 something percent are just fine with that, or simply failed to consider it at all. I'm thinking the latter cuz pilots are a bit dumb in this country.


Remember 2% is the BANK of CANADA INFLATION TARGET....THAT'S BEST CASE. A 2% increace yearly is a noose around your neck that's getting TIGHTER and TIGHTER every year. I know math is hard, but a 2% increace in one year VS. a 2.1% rise in inflation = LESS BUYING POWER = BAD.


Crazy world is this. You certainly get what you negotiate though, that's a fact.

Obviously your have a point about inflation and the company planning for that but you fail to consider the damage done by the email from the union. There is no question what they were driving at with the underlying message, the threat to shutdown Encore was believed to be a real threat.
The pilots had to be mentally prepared for starting over and it appears 79% did not want to roll the dice.

I guess one would have to consider the "logic" in shutting down and airline because of pilot pay.

Pilot compensation averages 4% to 8% of the operating cost depending on the airline. There are "cost savings" in paying pilots above industry standard. Lower attrition is real, and effieciencies of a well compensated pilot group are "real" as well. We just "care more" about being on time and saving fuel. We're "happy" so we are more willing to mentor other pilots we fly with on making the operation more efficient. Happy, efficient pilots = big $$$ savings.

The Company has to reconsile that cost/savings when deciding to compensate pilots properly or not. Doing so may amount to a 1% or at worst a 2% bump in operating costs. If that terminates the ability for a Company to make money, I'll eat my hat in front of anyone on this Forum.

At the end of the day if comes down to "who blinks first". The pilots blinked beacaue they either weren't informend of their "real cost" / "real asset" to the airline and understood it, or they never intended to stay long, and the first year bump was "good enough". I'm thinking it was a little of both, but the Company never had any intention of "shutting down". That would be rediculous. It's a common tactic that is very, very powerful on the uninformed.


Remember a pilot is 100% as essential as fuel. The Company doesn't threaten closure when fuel prices rise 15%, or even 30% they just PAY IT. The difference is, you can't threaten the fuel provider with closure. They just don't play that game. Pilots will.

[RoAF-Mig21]

Because they are weak.

Got some brainiac in another thread comparing Canada to developing countries. Great stuff

It's not even comparable. Pilots in developing countries are in a "class of their own", when it comes to status and income. They get paid incredibly well, compared to the cost of living in their country. Canada is one of the worst countries in the world to be a pilot, when strictly looking at "PAY vs COST OF LIVING".

I don't know a single pilot in my home country that lives more than 30 minutes from their home airport / base.

[goldeneagle]

I notice the majority of the complaining comes from folks not at Encore. They seem to be pissed that the Encore group didn't go out on strike and take the economic pain of a strike, so the folks complaining maybe wont have to do that.

Lotta folks have been 'talking the talk' here on AvCan, but, we have yet to see any of those doing the talking, actually 'walk the walk'. time will tell if anybody screaming at the Encore folks is actually prepared to 'walk the walk' when it's their turn at bat.

[RippleRock]

I notice the majority of the complaining comes from folks not at Encore. They seem to be pissed that the Encore group didn't go out on strike and take the economic pain of a strike, so the folks complaining maybe wont have to do that.

Lotta folks have been 'talking the talk' here on AvCan, but, we have yet to see any of those doing the talking, actually 'walk the walk'. time will tell if anybody screaming at the Encore folks is actually prepared to 'walk the walk' when it's their turn at bat.

I agree.

It's maybe a "Canadian thing". No one wants to step up and take responsibility for standing their ground. It's aways "the other guys fault". Jazz didn't do it, so why should Encore? Westjet Mainline didn't either. Whether we work at Encore or not, we are all in the same boat, and it's leaking badly. If no one takes a stand, we should all just STFU.


No Union is going to any length to explain to a pilot group --in any detail-- how essential to the operation pilots are. No one is explaining that they are NOT a "significant operational cost" in the bigger picture. No one is explaining that the operation stops 100% if they aren't aren't at the controls. There aren't enough pilots out there to fill a void, ANY VOID really........ and current Canadian labour law wouldn't allow it anyways.

Pilot compensation is relatively small potatoes.

Take fuel for example. Fuel is approximately 35% of the operating cost of an airline give or take. A fuel cost rise of 20% isn't unheard of, and no airline has ceaced operation because of an increace that size directly. 20% of 35% is a 7% direct increace to the operating cost of an airline. Doubling the pilot compensation package is roughly 3.5%. So HALF. But that doesn't compensate for the fact that you now have a very happy pilot group that pulls hard for the Company. Operational efficiencies go up. It's hard to quantify it, but it is definitely there.

Because these facts are not explained to the pilot group, or the shareholders, the pilots fall for "shut-down" scare tactics that SHOULD NOT sway us if we were armed with knowledge one inch.
Its a failure of our Unions and a failure of our pilot groups in not seeking that knowledge. Other pilots from other airlines who point this out are not your enemy.

[C-GGGQ]

A yearly "2% bump" is NOT a raise. Pilots are DUMB if they think otherwise.
It WILL NOT keep up with core inflation. 2% is a LOSER every year, and it's a "compounded loss".


Compounded losses are EXPONENTIAL over the life of the career, and it will -drag- on any future gains. You guys understand what "drag" is, right??? Exponentially increacing drag = CRASH. It's like collecting ice faster and faster because the accumulation area keeps increacing with the more ice you collect.

Think of inflation as the ice, and your yearly increace as the ability to shed it.

The Encore business model has inflation already incorporated into their forward looking business plan, (because it would be stupid for a pilot not to think about icing, and the aircrafts ability to shed it before going flying...RIGHT???) The Company thinks about inflation and plans for it by using 2.5% or even 3.5% for that model, including employee pay, so at 2% you guys effectively put .5% to 1.5% right back into their pockets each year on an expense they already planned for, and are setting yourselves BACK an equal amount. Increacing your DRAG --EVERY YEAR--- because it's COMPOUNDED!!! Good work.

Question: Who would "willingly" negotiate a 2% "increace" per annum in an environment running at 2.8-3.8% inflation per year, thinking it's anything other than a loss???

Answer: No one with half a wits sense. Apparently nearly 80 something percent are just fine with that, or simply failed to consider it at all. I'm thinking the latter cuz pilots are a bit dumb in this country.


Remember 2% is the BANK of CANADA INFLATION TARGET....THAT'S BEST CASE. A 2% increace yearly is a noose around your neck that's getting TIGHTER and TIGHTER every year. I know math is hard, but a 2% increace in one year VS. a 2.1% rise in inflation = LESS BUYING POWER = BAD.


Crazy world is this. You certainly get what you negotiate though, that's a fact.

Obviously your have a point about inflation and the company planning for that but you fail to consider the damage done by the email from the union. There is no question what they were driving at with the underlying message, the threat to shutdown Encore was believed to be a real threat.
The pilots had to be mentally prepared for starting over and it appears 79% did not want to roll the dice.

Except the threat of shutting down encore is not a threat. Not in this shortage. Literally every Lynx pilot who applied to us got hired the day after the shutdown. The encore people could find work including DEC at multiple companies the next day.

[JBI]

Westjet could have mainline replace them and there routes quickly.

Would that not have effectively been immediate flow for all?

No, the Encore pilots would be laid off. Perhaps some would be rehired, but more likely WestJet would take from competitors.

[RippleRock]

A yearly "2% bump" is NOT a raise. Pilots are DUMB if they think otherwise.
It WILL NOT keep up with core inflation. 2% is a LOSER every year, and it's a "compounded loss".


Compounded losses are EXPONENTIAL over the life of the career, and it will -drag- on any future gains. You guys understand what "drag" is, right??? Exponentially increacing drag = CRASH. It's like collecting ice faster and faster because the accumulation area keeps increacing with the more ice you collect.

Think of inflation as the ice, and your yearly increace as the ability to shed it.

The Encore business model has inflation already incorporated into their forward looking business plan, (because it would be stupid for a pilot not to think about icing, and the aircrafts ability to shed it before going flying...RIGHT???) The Company thinks about inflation and plans for it by using 2.5% or even 3.5% for that model, including employee pay, so at 2% you guys effectively put .5% to 1.5% right back into their pockets each year on an expense they already planned for, and are setting yourselves BACK an equal amount. Increacing your DRAG --EVERY YEAR--- because it's COMPOUNDED!!! Good work.

Question: Who would "willingly" negotiate a 2% "increace" per annum in an environment running at 2.8-3.8% inflation per year, thinking it's anything other than a loss???

Answer: No one with half a wits sense. Apparently nearly 80 something percent are just fine with that, or simply failed to consider it at all. I'm thinking the latter cuz pilots are a bit dumb in this country.


Remember 2% is the BANK of CANADA INFLATION TARGET....THAT'S BEST CASE. A 2% increace yearly is a noose around your neck that's getting TIGHTER and TIGHTER every year. I know math is hard, but a 2% increace in one year VS. a 2.1% rise in inflation = LESS BUYING POWER = BAD.


Crazy world is this. You certainly get what you negotiate though, that's a fact.

Obviously your have a point about inflation and the company planning for that but you fail to consider the damage done by the email from the union. There is no question what they were driving at with the underlying message, the threat to shutdown Encore was believed to be a real threat.
The pilots had to be mentally prepared for starting over and it appears 79% did not want to roll the dice.

Except the threat of shutting down encore is not a threat. Not in this shortage. Literally every Lynx pilot who applied to us got hired the day after the shutdown. The encore people could find work including DEC at multiple companies the next day.

EXACTLY. Planes are hammered. There is a shortage of seats in this country, and Encore was seriously considering closing shop??? All those pilots snapped up by other carriers, never to return??? WTF?

The MEC must have their head in the sand....and the pilot group believed them. That's some serious level detachment.

The pilot group that actually "calls their employers bluff" and heads out on the picket line for a few weeks is going to be the BIG winner in this industry. We have NEVER seen, and maybe never again see a better climate both economically and politically to walk.

No one has had the balls to do it yet. Not one.

[JBI]

EXACTLY. Planes are hammered. There is a shortage of seats in this country, and Encore was seriously considering closing shop??? All those pilots snapped up by other carriers, never to return??? WTF?

The MEC must have their head in the sand....and the pilot group believed them. That's some serious level detachment.

The pilot group that actually "calls their employers bluff" and heads out on the picket line for a few weeks is going to be the BIG winner in this industry. We have NEVER seen, and maybe never again see a better climate both economically and politically to walk.

No one has had the balls to do it yet. Not one.

Your argument would be a lot stronger if Encore didn't already have 75% of its fleet parked. They had 47 aircraft, 16 have been sold or are in long term storage or need substantial maintenance. Of the remaining 31, they're flying between 12 on a somewhat regular basis, with the remaining 19 parked due to lack of crews.

I don't agree with the Company's strategy in this sense. WestJet is cutting routes because of lack of aircraft and Boeing delivery delays, yet we have between 20-25 aircraft that are simply not being used. So, how much do you think the Company actually cares about keeping Encore flying?

[fish4life]

I don’t think the reason to shut down encore or lock them out for an extended period of time would be over a few bucks from the company point of view.
Think about the message they send to any other labour group at the company that if you demand more than they are willing to pay you won’t have a job to come back to.

They obviously can’t make an example out of the WJ pilots because that is the entire operation but the Encore pilots have very little leverage in that sense since they are a fraction of the WJ’s overall operation.

[CPU2000]

It's really like Canadians think their market is so much different

You got to learn to call a bluff. I know it's scary. I know it's shitty your corporate sociopathic leaders do this because they don't give a fly @#$! about you, but that's the game

The one with the biggest balls wins.

And it's clear that in this case, WJ has the bigger balls than Encore pilots.

There was ZERO chance WJ Encore was shutting down for pilot salaries. ZERO

[MontrealCanucks]

It's really like Canadians think their market is so much different

You got to learn to call a bluff. I know it's scary. I know it's shitty your corporate sociopathic leaders do this because they don't give a fly @#$! about you, but that's the game

The one with the biggest balls wins.

And it's clear that in this case, WJ has the bigger balls than Encore pilots.

There was ZERO chance WJ Encore was shutting down for pilot salaries. ZERO

I remember when WJ was going to shutdown for pilot salaries lol

At least those pilots showed some gumption. Encore on the other hand...what a total failure

[C-GGGQ]

EXACTLY. Planes are hammered. There is a shortage of seats in this country, and Encore was seriously considering closing shop??? All those pilots snapped up by other carriers, never to return??? WTF?

The MEC must have their head in the sand....and the pilot group believed them. That's some serious level detachment.

The pilot group that actually "calls their employers bluff" and heads out on the picket line for a few weeks is going to be the BIG winner in this industry. We have NEVER seen, and maybe never again see a better climate both economically and politically to walk.

No one has had the balls to do it yet. Not one.

Your argument would be a lot stronger if Encore didn't already have 75% of its fleet parked. They had 47 aircraft, 16 have been sold or are in long term storage or need substantial maintenance. Of the remaining 31, they're flying between 12 on a somewhat regular basis, with the remaining 19 parked due to lack of crews.

I don't agree with the Company's strategy in this sense. WestJet is cutting routes because of lack of aircraft and Boeing delivery delays, yet we have between 20-25 aircraft that are simply not being used. So, how much do you think the Company actually cares about keeping Encore flying?

Lack of crews due to a poor contract. They could have had all 19 back up and running if they gave the pilots a contract making Encore top choice. They didn’t even make it competitive

[JBI]

EXACTLY. Planes are hammered. There is a shortage of seats in this country, and Encore was seriously considering closing shop??? All those pilots snapped up by other carriers, never to return??? WTF?

The MEC must have their head in the sand....and the pilot group believed them. That's some serious level detachment.

The pilot group that actually "calls their employers bluff" and heads out on the picket line for a few weeks is going to be the BIG winner in this industry. We have NEVER seen, and maybe never again see a better climate both economically and politically to walk.

No one has had the balls to do it yet. Not one.

Your argument would be a lot stronger if Encore didn't already have 75% of its fleet parked. They had 47 aircraft, 16 have been sold or are in long term storage or need substantial maintenance. Of the remaining 31, they're flying between 12 on a somewhat regular basis, with the remaining 19 parked due to lack of crews.

I don't agree with the Company's strategy in this sense. WestJet is cutting routes because of lack of aircraft and Boeing delivery delays, yet we have between 20-25 aircraft that are simply not being used. So, how much do you think the Company actually cares about keeping Encore flying?

Lack of crews due to a poor contract. They could have had all 19 back up and running if they gave the pilots a contract making Encore top choice. They didn’t even make it competitive

I agree completely, but they could have done that a year ago, this isn't a surprise. It just shows how little priority they take in actually having a full fleet of Q400s flying.

I do need to correct myself though, my initial information wasn't quite correct, the number of planes actually flying are a little higher at just over 20. The argument still stands though - as they are not being utilized near as much as aircraft could/should be. The reality is that WestJet and Encore have/had 30 planes that could be used or used way more, and they have no interest in paying more to do so.

So, how much do you think they'll care if Encore pilots went on strike?

[ShillBill]

It had the potential to be a prolonged strike. They could have collected ALPA strike pay. When you convert that $3k USD to Canadian its pretty decent pay check for pilots in this country sadly

WJ would have eventually came around. We all know they can afford to pay industry rates

Encore pilots would have been remembered as legends. Proudly wore their battle stars

Instead they will be remembered as giant pussies on a 5 yrs locked in contract.

[RochVoisine]

I honestly hope none of these yes voting Encore pilots show up at AC. They can all flow to WJ and shill it up there

AC Pilots are going to get a World Class Contract through strength and set an example. We don't need any bandwagon jumpers. We want strong unionists here

[JBI]

It had the potential to be a prolonged strike. They could have collected ALPA strike pay. When you convert that $3k USD to Canadian its pretty decent pay check for pilots in this country sadly

WJ would have eventually came around. We all know they can afford to pay industry rates

Encore pilots would have been remembered as legends. Proudly wore their battle stars

Instead they will be remembered as giant pussies on a 5 yrs locked in contract.

Of course the WestJet Group of Companies "CAN" pay the Encore Pilots better. But, what makes you think that they would as a result of a strike? Right now Encore has over HALF their fleet parked because of lack of crews. Onex/WJ/Encore could have paid way more over the last couple of years to keep the full fleet flying but they don't think it's worth it too. They've spent the last 2 years showing everyone that Encore isn't all that important to them. How will this suddenly change during a strike? Do you think the Company has/had contingencies? Or do you think that like some romantic movie they'd suddenly see how wrong they were and do anything to get the Encore pilots back to work?

I am genuinely interested in your answer.

Don't get me wrong, when I've been down at ALPA's head office and you see guys wearing their ALPA pin with the strike star on it, part of me wishes WJ would have gone on strike, even just for a day - it's a cool looking pin!

[Bede]

Have you ever flown "that" passenger that is convinced that they know more than you do? You hear them explain to their seatmate why the pilot should have done something differently on landing, why the flight was "really" cancelled, etc. Maybe they even know a little bit of what they're talking about because they have a PPL.

This thread reminds me of that guy. I don't work there, I don't know the facts, I don't know the numbers, I obviously wasn't in the room. But here's what I do know: the MEC recommended this contract for ratification because they, in their best judgement, giving consideration to the fact before them, thought it was the best deal they could get.

It's easy to slag away at fellow pilots because they didn't do as well as you think you could do. If you think you could have done better, please step up to the plate and run for your MEC or join the negots committee.

[fish4life]

I hear a lot of comparisons to the US… when was the last time a US carrier went on strike?
Ask the fed ex pilots how their contract negotiations are going.

There is some supply and demand differences between the countries as well as economic ones whether you want to admit it or not.

[Stratopaused]

Take fuel for example. Fuel is approximately 35% of the operating cost of an airline give or take. A fuel cost rise of 20% isn't unheard of, and no airline has ceaced operation because of an increace that size directly. 20% of 35% is a 7% direct increace to the operating cost of an airline. Doubling the pilot compensation package is roughly 3.5%. So HALF. But that doesn't compensate for the fact that you now have a very happy pilot group that pulls hard for the Company. Operational efficiencies go up. It's hard to quantify it, but it is definitely there.

Because in the case of Encore, it's not just a measurement of either spending a bit more money on fuel or shutting down the airline, it's a question of whether that more expensive fuel/pilot pay should be allocated to a Q400 or a less-frequent jet. Since Encore doesn't have any scope protections, there's also the option of finding another CPA provider, although that seems unlikely in the current hiring environment. Jets are popping up on Encore routes to increase capacity with lower frequencies, so at some point the costs of operating Encore compared to the revenues it generates will become greater than the cost:revenue ratio of putting a 737 on the same route. You can't just look at Encore as being a standalone carrier that exists in a vacuum; it's a very small part of a larger group, which makes the calculation much more complex than an airline that does all its own flying.

Also, let's not forget that when oil prices have abruptly spiked in the past that airlines have parked older, less-efficient jets. They don't just shrug and pay the difference when that difference will render them unprofitable.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Take fuel for example. Fuel is approximately 35% of the operating cost of an airline give or take. A fuel cost rise of 20% isn't unheard of, and no airline has ceaced operation because of an increace that size directly. 20% of 35% is a 7% direct increace to the operating cost of an airline. Doubling the pilot compensation package is roughly 3.5%. So HALF. But that doesn't compensate for the fact that you now have a very happy pilot group that pulls hard for the Company. Operational efficiencies go up. It's hard to quantify it, but it is definitely there.

Because in the case of Encore, it's not just a measurement of either spending a bit more money on fuel or shutting down the airline, it's a question of whether that more expensive fuel/pilot pay should be allocated to a Q400 or a less-frequent jet. Since Encore doesn't have any scope protections, there's also the option of finding another CPA provider, although that seems unlikely in the current hiring environment. Jets are popping up on Encore routes to increase capacity with lower frequencies, so at some point the costs of operating Encore compared to the revenues it generates will become greater than the cost:revenue ratio of putting a 737 on the same route. You can't just look at Encore as being a standalone carrier that exists in a vacuum; it's a very small part of a larger group, which makes the calculation much more complex than an airline that does all its own flying.

Also, let's not forget that when oil prices have abruptly spiked in the past that airlines have parked older, less-efficient jets. They don't just shrug and pay the difference when that difference will render them unprofitable.

Previous post deleted:
New post:

CPAs mean nothing in this day and age. Jazz tried and successfully secured ALL of AC express flying. Great job! Clap clap. Oh wait; now PAL is doing some too.

You’re right, nothing is stopping them from sourcing out work. Fact is, we don’t know how profitable ANY route is in terms of dollars. We can only speculate or run some pilot maths. Encore pilots took a knee to the coach, when they could have said “im playing this next shift”

[RippleRock]

Take fuel for example. Fuel is approximately 35% of the operating cost of an airline give or take. A fuel cost rise of 20% isn't unheard of, and no airline has ceaced operation because of an increace that size directly. 20% of 35% is a 7% direct increace to the operating cost of an airline. Doubling the pilot compensation package is roughly 3.5%. So HALF. But that doesn't compensate for the fact that you now have a very happy pilot group that pulls hard for the Company. Operational efficiencies go up. It's hard to quantify it, but it is definitely there.

Because in the case of Encore, it's not just a measurement of either spending a bit more money on fuel or shutting down the airline, it's a question of whether that more expensive fuel/pilot pay should be allocated to a Q400 or a less-frequent jet. Since Encore doesn't have any scope protections, there's also the option of finding another CPA provider, although that seems unlikely in the current hiring environment. Jets are popping up on Encore routes to increase capacity with lower frequencies, so at some point the costs of operating Encore compared to the revenues it generates will become greater than the cost:revenue ratio of putting a 737 on the same route. You can't just look at Encore as being a standalone carrier that exists in a vacuum; it's a very small part of a larger group, which makes the calculation much more complex than an airline that does all its own flying.

Also, let's not forget that when oil prices have abruptly spiked in the past that airlines have parked older, less-efficient jets. They don't just shrug and pay the difference when that difference will render them unprofitable.

Pilots just don't cost that much.

There is no one that can convince me that they do. They have never been an airline "deal breaker". Not once. They just aren't that big a "slice of the pie".

If you can find me a single instance "I'm all ears". Ken Rowe being "vindictive" doesn't count.

FWIW, If airlines are building business models based on crap pilot wages, and can't make it work otherwise, they probably shouldn't be in the business to begin with. Yields that skinny are destined to fail.

[JBI]

Pilots just don't cost that much.

There is no one that can convince me that they do. They have never been an airline "deal breaker". Not once. They just aren't that big a "slice of the pie".

If you can find me a single instance "I'm all ears". Ken Rowe being "vindictive" doesn't count.

FWIW, If airlines are building business models based on crap pilot wages, and can't make it work otherwise, they probably shouldn't be in the business to begin with. Yields that skinny are destined to fail.

I don't disagree with your assertions. But, it's not quite so black and white. Encore doesn't have enough crew to begin with, so it's not a matter of "pilots don't cost that much", it's a matter of "how many airplanes do they actually want to fly?"

Encore had 47 Q400s, they couldn't staff them at their pay rates and working conditions. ALPA (myself included) told them that on a regular basis at the negotiating table starting in 2018. "Nope, nope, we're fine" was their response. Right now they're flying 22 aircraft but not at full block hours. They're using less than half their fleet, and even then, not at a utilization rate that really makes sense.

In late 2022/early 2023 they offered a retention LOU that increased pay pretty significantly. It kept things going for longer, but didn't keep Captains from leaving. ALPA told the Company this and was open and honest to the pilots when they put that LOU out for a vote.

All this to say that the Company has already shown that they're not willing to invest in what it would actually cost to keep Encore flying at a full capacity. If there had been a work stoppage, do you think the Company would be more likely to suddenly go "oh, hey, we should actually pay way more money to staff properly" or simply work out their contingencies to fill what they feel is the more important parts of the part-time flying the airline is doing.

Your point about "well, if they can't afford to pay their pilots more then they should just shut down" isn't wrong either.
But 1- I still think that the pay rates are competitive enough and
2- it's pretty selfish to say to another pilot "Hey, I know you're a 7 year Captain at Encore who stands to make around $160,000 on their T4 in 2025, but you should just sacrifice your job because I don't think it's enough. You should go apply at a job that pays less now, but maybe, eventually will pay more.