Air Canada is Not WestJet

[N181CS]

You are more like westjet then you are like the US or Asian carriers. A new low for AC pilots. One should question the decision making skills of those who went to AC for such low wages. If you don’t like the wage you should have voted with your feet…

What? Say again, you’re coming in stupid!

Sell outs say what? Pilot who have gone there in the past years have done nothing but suppress the wages. When people are willing to accept that garbage then AC does not have to do anything. You knew what the wages were and you choose to go there. No one forced you. Sorry your so butt hurt living in your parents basement.

[cdnavater]

You are more like westjet then you are like the US or Asian carriers. A new low for AC pilots. One should question the decision making skills of those who went to AC for such low wages. If you don’t like the wage you should have voted with your feet…

What? Say again, you’re coming in stupid!

Sell outs say what? Pilot who have gone there in the past years have done nothing but suppress the wages. When people are willing to accept that garbage then AC does not have to do anything. You knew what the wages were and you choose to go there. No one forced you. Sorry your so butt hurt living in your parents basement.

You are talking out of the smarter part of you, your ass, however you are still clueless!
AC operation is a legacy airline with double the fleet of WJ, is not a LCC except Rouge kind of even though the pilots are the on the same contract.
AC pilots were more or less on par with their US counterparts 20 years ago, they are trying to get back the losses.
End of story, my wife would not be happy if we were living in my parents basement, I bought my first house at 23, my Mom however has been hinting about my basement which would be cause for divorce so I ignored the comment.

[slob driver]

Well....Bud.... I put the caveat "that I am aware of," better check your reading comprehension. I am sure if you dug around over the last couple of decades there (might ?) be one, end of the day the hiring is a one way street.

We did have two brainiacs quit in the middle of the 737 Sim course and go to Flair, willing to bet they regret that move.

I’m not certain what Flair has to do with this discussion, but I will tell you that over the years, many pilots have left AC for WJ.
As for the video, it is in very poor taste. Alienating the WJ pilots is truly a head scratcher to me. I’ve never seen Delta ALPA or UAL ALPA do this to their brethren at JetBlue or Alaska.
One should always know who the messaging is for. If this video is for the AC execs (which it seems to be) your negotiating committee and MEC should be doing this already. When someone starts a sentence with “look, with respect….” The statement that follows will likely be disrespectful. This video did not disappoint.
I get it, all AC pilots think WJ pilots are western regional hicks that should never be used as a comparison to the vaunted AC pilots…..At least that is how your group comes across in this video. That type of inference does not build unity, something that is very large in the US, but obviously sorely lacking in Canada if this video is used as evidence of that.
BUT I digress, even after watching that video, I hope you get a decent CA. Your 10 year contract has been an anchor on every Canadian pilot’s career.

[goingnowherefast]

This whole thread has turned stupid.

AC is a legacy North American carrier like Delta, American and United. They should pay similar. Their executives agreed when setting their own compensation. Just not now when discussing pilot compensation.

WJ is a North American LCC like SW, Alaska and Jetblue. They should pay similar. Hopefully CA 3 they will. Norwegian is a LCC that operated 787s for a while, SAS operates A330s and A350s. The idea that LCCs can't operate widebody aircraft doesn't hold up.

[N181CS]

What? Say again, you’re coming in stupid!

Sell outs say what? Pilot who have gone there in the past years have done nothing but suppress the wages. When people are willing to accept that garbage then AC does not have to do anything. You knew what the wages were and you choose to go there. No one forced you. Sorry your so butt hurt living in your parents basement.

You are talking out of the smarter part of you, your ass, however you are still clueless!
AC operation is a legacy airline with double the fleet of WJ, is not a LCC except Rouge kind of even though the pilots are the on the same contract.
AC pilots were more or less on par with their US counterparts 20 years ago, they are trying to get back the losses.
End of story, my wife would not be happy if we were living in my parents basement, I bought my first house at 23, my Mom however has been hinting about my basement which would be cause for divorce so I ignored the comment.

20 years ago is not today. Had the AC group not sold future pilots down the river this would not be happening. Had people not kept flocking to AC again this would not be an issue, especially in the past 5ish years.

How long did you buy your house…. No 23 year old today can buy a house at AC wages. You probably were not at AC when you were 23 unless it was the in the 70s.

Your a Canadian pilot in Canada. It’s a captive market for most. If you want US wages then go there if you can. AC was not a stepping stone and pre covid shares were over $50 vs in 20 years ago at $1.

The discount happened because people accepted it. My ass is quite smart. It choose to not take a discount seat just because there was a maple leaf on it.

[Bede]

This whole thread has turned stupid.

AC is a legacy North American carrier like Delta, American and United. They should pay similar. Their executives agreed when setting their own compensation. Just not now when discussing pilot compensation.

WJ is a North American LCC like SW, Alaska and Jetblue. They should pay similar. Hopefully CA 3 they will. Norwegian is a LCC that operated 787s for a while, SAS operates A330s and A350s. The idea that LCCs can't operate widebody aircraft doesn't hold up.

I'm still confused about the argument. A 737 pilot is a 737 pilot regardless of where they work. Why should a SWA pilot earn less than an AA pilot?

[phenix]

This video is bringing so much fraternity and solidarity, it was really worth it.
I appreciate the argument “we say that we are worth more than you now but don’t worry, it will help you because you can say you are worth as much as us when it’s your turn to negotiate”. We are in it together, hold the line, all unified, etc etc

[currysonic]

This whole thread has turned stupid.

AC is a legacy North American carrier like Delta, American and United. They should pay similar. Their executives agreed when setting their own compensation. Just not now when discussing pilot compensation.

WJ is a North American LCC like SW, Alaska and Jetblue. They should pay similar. Hopefully CA 3 they will. Norwegian is a LCC that operated 787s for a while, SAS operates A330s and A350s. The idea that LCCs can't operate widebody aircraft doesn't hold up.

I'm still confused about the argument. A 737 pilot is a 737 pilot regardless of where they work. Why should a SWA pilot earn less than an AA pilot?

If I’m reading this right, (annualized might be different). SWA pilots have a better pay rate than AA.

SWA Payscale
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... t_airlines

AA Payscale
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... n_airlines

[QKZXKV]

Embarrassing AF; so disappointed my dues went to this bs. Considering we're all represented by the same union, this kind of tear down shouldn't be going on.

[digits_]

Cringe...

Would have been a nice clip if all references to WestJet would have been removed.

"We do the same work as X, Y, Z, and thus we deserve the same pay as pilots at X, Y, Z. Similar to how our executives decide their compensation."

There was absolutely no need to trash Westjet pilots.

[QKZXKV]

Cringe...

Would have been a nice clip if all references to WestJet would have been removed.

"We do the same work as X, Y, Z, and thus we deserve the same pay as pilots at X, Y, Z. Similar to how our executives decide their compensation."

There was absolutely no need to trash Westjet pilots.

Especially how supportive they've all been wearing our lanyards and supporting things...

[Transition9er2]

What a stupid thread/topic to be up.

This thread will solve precisely nothing but spool everyone up.

Management (possibly) drops this turd of a post then sits back and laughs at everyone taking the bait.

We’re better than these comments… aren’t we?

[QKZXKV]

What a stupid thread/topic to be up.

This thread will solve precisely nothing but spool everyone up.

Management (possibly) drops this turd of a post then sits back and laughs at everyone taking the bait.

We’re better than these comments… aren’t we?

We're better than trashing our ALPA partners in a video Charlene approved. It's damned embarrassing, and we wonder why pilots are divided in Canada.

[CPU2000]

So let's me get this straight

AC Executives have been very clear that their perceived baseline for negotiating is WestJet which like it or not, is tragically less than United/Delta.

Don't get me started on WestJet's daily guarantee & 50% Deadhead

So AC ALPA puts a video together saying AC Pilots consider United their comparables just like the Executives and WJ pilots come on here with bruised egos??

[hsilgnepilot]

Coming from someone on neutral turf (I don’t fly for neither WJ or AC), this video is extremely poorly worded and the message will absolutely be interpreted the wrong way.

Would not be at all shocked if it leads to turmoil between the two pilot groups, including WJ pilots possibly not allowing AC pilots in their J/S.

[phenix]

So let's me get this straight

AC Executives have been very clear that their perceived baseline for negotiating is WestJet which like it or not, is tragically less than United/Delta.

Don't get me started on WestJet's daily guarantee & 50% Deadhead

So AC ALPA puts a video together saying AC Pilots consider United their comparables just like the Executives and WJ pilots come on here with bruised egos??

You don’t get it. AC can come with the message that they’re leading Canadian aviation towards better conditions, or they can come with the message that they’re worth more than the rest of Canadian aviation, they deserve more, the others deserve what they have. They chose the second option, and chose to put other down to lift themselves up. It will be hard to ask for solidarity after that.

[Tbayer2021]

I wouldn't want to be a commuting pilot at AC right about now.

[goingnowherefast]

This whole thread has turned stupid.

AC is a legacy North American carrier like Delta, American and United. They should pay similar. Their executives agreed when setting their own compensation. Just not now when discussing pilot compensation.

WJ is a North American LCC like SW, Alaska and Jetblue. They should pay similar. Hopefully CA 3 they will. Norwegian is a LCC that operated 787s for a while, SAS operates A330s and A350s. The idea that LCCs can't operate widebody aircraft doesn't hold up.

I'm still confused about the argument. A 737 pilot is a 737 pilot regardless of where they work. Why should a SWA pilot earn less than an AA pilot?

If I’m reading this right, (annualized might be different). SWA pilots have a better pay rate than AA.

SWA Payscale
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... t_airlines

AA Payscale
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... n_airlines

I'm glad someone finally caught on!

American LCCs are actually quite similar to the American legacy carriers.

AC ALPA is trying to destroy the mentality of "pay like WJ" and push the idea of "pay like the other North American legacy airlines". Which is a loftier number to settle for, WJ rates +5%, or United rates -5%?

I agree, the video could have been done a lot better. Focus on executive compensation on par with US legacies and pilot compensation should be the same too. There's a lot of resentment in Canadian society regarding the 0.1% ultra wealthy getting even richer and front line workers can't keep up with inflation. Capitalize on that instead of focusing on how WJ and AC are dfferent.

It would be great if WJA made SWA rates and AC made DAL rates.

[flying4dollars]

Those of you who are triggered by this video because you felt it was an insult to WJ pilots completely missed the point. Maybe watch the video again and leave your emotion out of it, because there's a very important point being made about the way AC management leverages their salaries against US carriers unlike the way they pay their pilots and what comparators they want to use for us.

Seriously, this needs to be clarified? Yikes..

[phenix]

Those of you who are triggered by this video because you felt it was an insult to WJ pilots completely missed the point. Maybe watch the video again and leave your emotion out of it, because there's a very important point being made about the way AC management leverages their salaries against US carriers unlike the way they pay their pilots and what comparators they want to use for us.

Seriously, this needs to be clarified? Yikes..

You might follow your own advice, and the condescending tone isn’t needed. I wonder where this sentiment of superiority comes from

[CPU2000]

So let's me get this straight

AC Executives have been very clear that their perceived baseline for negotiating is WestJet which like it or not, is tragically less than United/Delta.

Don't get me started on WestJet's daily guarantee & 50% Deadhead

So AC ALPA puts a video together saying AC Pilots consider United their comparables just like the Executives and WJ pilots come on here with bruised egos??

You don’t get it. AC can come with the message that they’re leading Canadian aviation towards better conditions, or they can come with the message that they’re worth more than the rest of Canadian aviation, they deserve more, the others deserve what they have. They chose the second option, and chose to put other down to lift themselves up. It will be hard to ask for solidarity after that.

You're not getting it

AC Executives are comparing AC pilots to WJ

I repeat...AC Executives are comparing AC pilots to WJ pilots

AC pilots are busting this AC Executive created narrative

And being asses with the jumpseat goes both ways...what a stupid comment. @#$! me

[TPP]

This video isn't for WJ pilots.

This video is for the traveling public for when a strike date nears and executive suite will try to negotiate in public.

"Look at these greedy pilots, we offered them WJ +5 percent and they said no!!"

If ACs ALPA gets anywhere near American legacy pay, WJs MEC can easily argue on the next round that South West and carriers similar to them down south make legacy pay as well despite being LCC.

Understand who the message is for, we Canadian pilots tend to play checkers while our executive suites play chess with public messaging.

Let's turn the tide, no more Canadian discounted labour.

[stall]

This video isn't for WJ pilots.

This video is for the traveling public for when a strike date nears and executive suite will try to negotiate in public.

"Look at these greedy pilots, we offered them WJ +5 percent and they said no!!"

If ACs ALPA gets anywhere near American legacy pay, WJs MEC can easily argue on the next round that South West and carriers similar to them down south make legacy pay as well despite being LCC.

Understand who the message is for, we Canadian pilots tend to play checkers while our executive suites play chess with public messaging.

Let's turn the tide, no more Canadian discounted labour.

Big plus 1

Support AC pilots in their efforts and the industry wins

[bradleyscotts]

I watched the video a few times. Where does it say that AC pilots are better than WS pilots? Only thing the video does is compare the airlines. It compares them based on size and the places that it operates into. This comparison is done in order to make the argument that we should be paid more. An argument which ALPA has approved and helps to start pattern bargaining in Canada. Not sure why someone from WS would watch this and think "they think they are better than us" Eyes on the price boys, eyes on the price

[phenix]

You guys are tiring, always thinking that those who disagree with you just don’t understand.
In that video the pilot group also sent an important message, it is that they will never leave: AC management knows as much as everyone that very few pilots could secure a US visa, and those would be so high in the hierarchy that they would have too much to lose leaving AC. Offer and demand will guide the negotiations, not what people think they are worth. Happy world class contract