NO DISCOUNTS OR DEALS FOR THOSE WHO RISK OR DIE FOR US?!?!

[Hornblower]

Capt,

I for the most part, I am a floater at this site. I view, I read, I approve, I disaprove, I laugh, and even shake my head in disgust some times. After reading your post, I had to shake my head.

Adanac

Adanac; ... never, and I mean never, take Capt. S&J too seriously. He lives to troll. He's probably in the reserves and actually admires George Bush.

At least you didn't overreact.

[tailgunner]

Cap't S + J.
List the countries.....That's right, list all of the countries that are currently dominated by the American military. I can think of 2 that have American soldiers based there that were not Already there Before 911. Iraq and Afganistan. So where is this So - called American military occupation?
Did Poland also deserve to be attacked in '39?According to your reasoning they did. Poland was granted title to Germany's land after 1918. I guess the Polish military was also dominating in these lands, so by your reasoning they had it coming. One could also say then that France also had it coming because they too were also occupying German territory of Alsace and Lorraine, plus the Germanic city of Strasburg. As you can see your limited view of history can cause you too make ill formed statements that cannot follow a logical path. Then all that is left is blatent Anti - Americanism.

[Greg87]

I only got through about half of this thread before I felt like throwing up. I can't believe how little respect many of you have for the Canadian soldiers. Whether you agree with the reason that they are overseas or not does not make a difference, they joined to defend Canada. They deserve our support, not our criticism, if you don't like what they are doing, complain to the government, they are the ones that sent them where they are. Our soldiers have been there to help us out, such as the floods years back out west, if you were helped by the soldiers then, would you expect them to pay their full airfare back to their hometown? The people that criticize the troops will be among the first to demand that those same troops help them in their time of need, you don't know how lucky you are to have people willing to put their life on the line for you and your country.

[gowest]

[/img]

[Spokes]

"Third: If they're returning from their tour abroad, does not the military fly them to their home base and, by extension, their families?"

Of course they do, they also get a trip home mid-tour on government dime. I have great respect for soldiers, however, I see no reason to offer a discount unless it makes good business sense to do so.

Not nessecarily. If you are married this is true. For the young single person they simply fly you back to your home base. Some people will have parents/brothers/sisters etc who they would visit. I think this is the cost being spoken of.

Annual leave travel assistance (LTA) helps, but does not pay for the whole trip. It is based on distance. And only covers travel in Canada. If you need to leave the country that portion of the milage is not counted. Sometimes the LTA is just a pittance compared to the price of travel. Something is better than nothing though I suppose.

Funny thing is, evertime I have visited the USA as a Canadian serviceman I received huge discounts on lots of stuff simply for serving. Never ever seen the same thing in Canada. I don't think a small discount is unreasonable.

[North Shore]

I support OUR troops and the war THEY fight 100%. Notice how I said "our" and "they". In other words, I might not agree 100% with how the US is going about their duties, but for the most part I do. Canadians are fighting to liberate the Afghans from the Taliban regime. We have already seen massive headway being made in that women over there now have waaaaaay more rights than they had before (they weren't allowed to have any body part exposed from what I'm told), and the education system is waaaaaay better than what it was. If you don't believe the Afghans don't deserve these freedoms and rights that we enjoy everyday, then shame on you.

EC

Sure they deserve the same freedoms, and liberation etc....but why should my taxes pay for it?? If they want all of that, then why aren't they out there fighting for it?

I think it was LBJ who said of the Vietnam war, "Why should American boys be over there doing what Vietnamese boys should be doing for themselves?"

[TopperHarley]

I think it was LBJ who said of the Vietnam war, "Why should American boys be over there doing what Vietnamese boys should be doing for themselves?"

Sometimes people simply don't have the means to liberate themselves and need help to achieve these freedoms. In the case of the taliban regime or bathe party in Iraq, it is my opinion that the citizens there who wanted freedom did not have the means to achieve it because they were either outnumbered or were too afraid to raise their voices (i.e. the taliban and Saddam killed anybody who opposed them).

War sucks, there is no arguing this. And I think that the UN (this includes the USA and Canada) needs to "step in" more in other parts of the world, like Sudan. Was this not the whole purpose of the UN in the first place?? To help defend the rights and freedoms of those who do not have the means to defend themselves?

[beechy]

I think it was LBJ who said of the Vietnam war, "Why should American boys be over there doing what Vietnamese boys should be doing for themselves?"

Exactly.....But before terrorism came along there was the as equally a scary thing out there.......COMMUNISM

So the united states proudly and in almost heroic fashion crossed the pacific and used a little country (Vietnam) to fight a greater war with China and Russia. Probably because they knew a real war with one of these other countries would have lead to nuclear dessimation, and gross amounts of american lives (much greater then experienced in Vietnam).

How was the freedom of america in question because of communism abroad? It wasn't this is another example of The US making trouble for itself.

So lets consider thier actions now, fighting in Iraq and Afganistan but whom are they really fighting......like others have said before it wasn't afgans who hit the towers, it wasn't iraqies and sure wasn't sadam. What they should do is go and blast the hell out of Saudi, Syria and Pakistan where these people came from.

If you ask me a bigger injustice, then not giving discounts to our troops, is using our money to go and rescue Lebanease Canadians whom are now all returning to lebanon. they are obviously true Canadians, well only in the summer. Or how about giving a free ride to Canada abord the PM's jet to a known criminal. Or bush having the bin laden family flown out of the US before anyone else could leave the ground. Or how he has put the US so far in debt that the economy is going to shit......except for companies like Haliburton, they are still turning a profit.

People are starving at home that is the real injustice.....you should always solve your problems before running around helping others

I have a great respect for our military men and women, but that doesn't mean that i don't think they are being used here.

[sky's the limit]

You know,

My confidence in this country goes further downhill everytime I read one of these threads. The level of ignorance and indoctrination in evidence here is astounding, and appalling.

You would think in 2006 with wireless internet everywhere, cells phones and Blackberries, general access to an endless number of "news" sources, some of you would bother to expand your horizon's beyond CNN, Fox News, and other corporate owned outlets. Hell, you can translate just about any language these days with the clickof a mouse button.... But of course you don't, so the climate of ignorance and mass indoctrination continues.

Personally, I'm not even going to start on this one, as it's pretty clear most of you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about, much less be able to argue it. But I will leave you with something to think about. Why don't you sit down for five good minutes, think about where your opinions and predjudices have come from, then as objectively as possible, start connecting the dots. If this doesn't start you asking some questoins, nothing will.

I'm embarassed by what I've read here, from a supposedly educated demographic.

STL

[tailgunner]

STL..
Please enlighten us . You seem to have cornered the market ( oops, sorry that was very bourgoise of me) , on intelligence and free thinking. Please tell us where you get your totally unbiased view of the world. What mountain have you climbed to seek clarity on foreign affairs that the rest of us haven't? What level of education have you attained ? Me, I just have a worthless 4 year degree from some two bit major Canadian university. I am not that well read... a degree in Political Science and a minor in History surely assures that I have been indoctrinated by the mainstream US news networks..doesn't it ? I mean, I equate Michael Moore with Josef Goebels , Propaganda is propaganda.....Vilians are vilians....and terrorists can try and justify their actions.....only the naive believe them.

[mellow_pilot]

STL may have been heavy handed and somewhat adversarial in approach, but the point is correct. Critical thinking skills are lacking. Reason is often lacking in these types of posts.

Bomb Saudi/Syria/Pakistan? Cause terrorists come from there? By that logic terrorists were right to attack the US because the corporations and politicians they disagreed with came from America.

Same reasoning would conclude that Britain should bomb Britain in retaliation for the London bombings. Some of the terrorists came from England.

The attack in Afganistan was justified because the country's government was openly supporting a terrorist organization which represented a credible threat to civilian populations in other countries. Not because of the nationality of the individuals involved in the organzation.

This is just one example of the folly of repeating rhetoric from news outlets and political talk-show hosts, whose intention is not to have a meaningful dialogue on the subject, but rather to whip the public into a frenzy to boost ratings. In this way advertising slots can be more easily sold, or sold at a higher rate. The hosts may not subscribe to this, they may truly believe their own rediculous commentary, or they may like the attention they recieve. Whatever the reason, sheep are willing to repeat what they say on TV, over and over. The result is that normally rational people begin to believe the hype, and stop thinking critically. Always ask, "Does this really make sense?"

Communism is evil or scarry? It's a political ideology. There is nothing inherently evil or terrifying about it. The history of it's application has been shockingly vicious. Totalitarian regimes are, for the most part, cruel and by western standards, evil. It is extremism and not communism that is the true problem in this case.

With a degree in poli sci/history, I would think that you would be willing to consider evidence and not simply assume that an emotional argument is valid.

[sky's the limit]

STL..
I am not that well read... a degree in Political Science and a minor in History surely assures that I have been indoctrinated by the mainstream US news networks..doesn't it ? I mean, I equate Michael Moore with Josef Goebels , Propaganda is propaganda.....Vilians are vilians....and terrorists can try and justify their actions.....only the naive believe them.

First, if this statement on your education is indeed true, and if after all that reading, you can still say "villains are villains..." etc, etc, then yes I question what/where you learned. By definition, the most prolific "terrorists" on earth are the United States... their definition, not mine...

Second, don't ever confuse "education" with intelligence, just not the same thing. Now I'm not saying you might not be intelligent, but don't list me a cookie cutter Undergrad, and tell me you're "well read."

Third, I never said I've got it all figured out, even though I climb many mountains, but what I did say in so many words, is that I go to great lengths to ensure I have as many points of view as possible regarding any given topic. Hence my bewilderment with your "villains are villains" statement, as nothing is ever black and white, surly you must agree with that?

The U.S. Administration is one of the worst violators of Human Rights on the planet, they routinely ignore not only international law, but their own, and to believe they are fighting "the good fight," or honestly making an effort to bring peace is naive beyond words. This attitude of "Us vs. Them" has been fostered in the media since 1945, and if it's propaganda you seek, you're not going to have to look very far. They sell fear, you (the public) buy it, you have to, that way they can justify everything from Defense Budgets to the erosion of Civil Liberties. It happened in Nazi Germany, Italy, the Soviet Union, China, and the United States to name but a few. Nobody ever seems to learn from history, because we've been fighting wars since the beginning of time, and not one has ever been "good," or constructive, yet we still persist...

If you think for one minute our actions in Afghanistan are making us safer, your understanding of that conflict, and the root causes of so called "terrorism" are sorely lacking. When the first street car blows up in T.O., then what? You can thank Uncle Sam for perpetuating a world order where instability and conflict are the tools with which power is gained and retained. So much for a multilateral approch to conflict resolution.

"Rearranging one's prejudices should not be confused with thinking." And we are all guilty of that, just most don't seem to know it.


STL

[politically_incorrect]

....wait we have troops away fighting somewhere for freedom and our way of life.....I think not!....I know we have troops away ensuring george bush has money....we have troops ensuring george bush can action his world domination plans....the last time our way of life and freedom were under attack was 1939-1945...tell your friends to come home and stay home. Its time to stop being a pawn in this american plan for a one world government

Hey stupid, Afghanistan is not Iraq. We were not duped into going in there. Try and use a few of your obviously limited neurons to see the distinction.

[Springbok 3]

Capt S&J is a fucking head case if he believes that the US deserved what they got on 9-11. As for the rst of his arguement, enough said and it warrants no more response than this.

I ask why the government is prepared to fork out $85 mil on those fucking ungrateful Lebs but is not prepared to enter into some form of sponsorship for serving soldiers and veterans when it come to air travel costs?

[The Gun]

"Sure they deserve the same freedoms, and liberation etc....but why should my taxes pay for it?? "

Hey we pay taxes too North Shore.

STL, you're still a pussy.

[tailgunner]

STL...I really enjoy a good debate....I must totally disagree with your unfounded blanket statement that the US is the world's worse Human rights violator. The Rights can be listed as The right of assembly, of religion, political freedom, property, freedom from oppresion, of Life , liberty, and well being, and I am sure that there are more that can be listed but these will suffice. How can you claim that the US is a violator of these rights especially with more stark examples that have occured . Kosovo, Rwanda, Tibet, The West Bank, Gaza, Iraq with regards to the Kurds, Sudan, Ethiopia, Southy Africa, North Korea, Afganistan, Chile, Cambodia, Nazi Germany, USSR with regards to the Ukraine, Romania, Hungary 56, Czechoslovakia in '68, The cultural revolution under Mao. So please , quit repeating what leaders like Chavez declare, without actually examinig the facts.
Let us compare a nation like France to the US as well. France is perhaps more involved in foreign affairs then the US . France had troops on the ground in Somalia, in Rwanda, French Paratroopers backed the oppressive government forces ( Shake Hands with the Devil , Dallaire), French forces have actively battled Algerian nationalist forces, Chad, French military assistance for Saddam Hussein after 1985 allowed him to rearm, the attack on the GreenPeace ship the Rainbow warrior, The Anglo - French inavasion of the Suez, French colonialism in Viet Nam. Yet it is the US that is the target of the liberal media and thinkers. Perhaps that is because France has an openly Socialist, Left - leaning government..Surely the Left like to point out the US faults without recognizing that their sh*t stinks as well. Just a thought.

[hazatude]

here is another guy more intelligent and powerfull than anyone on this forum

That can not be proven.

[TopperHarley]

The U.S. Administration is one of the worst violators of Human Rights on the planet, they routinely ignore not only international law, but their own, and to believe they are fighting "the good fight," or honestly making an effort to bring peace is naive beyond words.

I'm not a big supporter of American foreign policy, but I think statements like that are ridiculous. Do you honestly believe that the US government is worse than North Korea's, Iran's, former Iraq's, Cuba, Venezuela, etc? Would you even consider moving to one of these countries before you would move to the USA? I highly doubt it.

The USA is in a pretty shitty position- they're damned if they do, and they're damned if they don't. People complain that Bush didn't do enough to prevent 9-11. Now they complain he is doing too much.

The only way the Islamic terrorists will stop threatening us is if we all convert. If we pull out of Afghanistan, they will still hate us and carry out a vendetta against us.

[sky's the limit]

Ok,

I've just had a really long day in the air, and I really don't want to get drawn into this, but I guess it's a bit late for that eh?

Nobody is disputing the Human Right's record of China, N. Korea et al. But, and it's an enormous moral and ethical but, they're not claiming to be the "good guys." They're not claiming to be bringing peace and so-called Democracy to the rest of the planet, and they certainly aren't claiming to be the world's moral and ethical leader. This is a huge distinction.

The American Administration's have, for over a century now, engaged in imperialistic behavior, regime change, the funding of Dictators, or Rebels depending on their interests at the time, assassination, and now the creation of illegal "secret" prisons where such trivial documents as the Geneva Conventions are circumvented. This is in addition to the current restriction of domestic civil liberties, illegal wire tapping and email screening programs, racial profiling, and social and economic policies that have only served to widen the gap between classes/races.

What America is doing is planned, both at home, and with their foreign policies. Make no mistake. If you care to read more about that, you can look up the various writings of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the other Neo-cons prior to their elevation to the White House. It's all there if you look for it.

C-HRIS, what can I say? Ridiculous? I don't think so. "They're damned if they do..." etc, no they are doing exactly what they want to be doing, and "They" don't care what anyone thinks.

Tailgun, I too usually enjoy a good debate, and I'm not disputing most of what you wrote, what I'm doing is asking you to look deeper, and not to quote Chavez or anyone else for that matter. I couldn't care less about Left or Right personally, doctrines of any nature disturb me. But just because it's Chavez that's saying something, doesn't make it untrue.... I trust you read his latest speech? Did you read that of Dr. Mahout Ahmadi-Nejad, President of the Islamic Republic of Iran? Or how about G.W.Bush's speech? There are things to be taken from them all, so whether or not France is Socialist, China Communist, or America Capitalist, we should be listening to all and drawing our own conclusions. It is these conclusions that differ so greatly from what is the offical “reasons” for what is happening in the world right now. And that, scares me very much, not some guy with an AK-47 who earns $25/year on the other side of the planet. The things we need to really fear are much closer to home.

The Gun, well how does one respond to such a well articulated attack? You win...

Have a good night all, I'm now done this one. PM me if you want.

STL

[Chantal]

Its amazing but many people are already brainwashed by the propaganda on Canadian news. Except those at the UN, like at the UN session today, no one was impressed to hear Stephen Harper because I don't think Afghanistan is a priority at the UN. Probably, they don't agree that we or NATO need to be there.
I know we are not in Afghanistan to help or save the Afghanis but we are there to help our neighbor and to make a stand. I'd be more supportive if we were in Darfur but I know it's not all up to the government to save countries and I can do something as well.

[av8tor_assrope]

After reading through this thread I could not think of any words to describe some of your comments in regards to our troops. It just seems wrong to call some of you fellow Canadians. Besides what you hear on the radio, or see on TV, most of you know nothing about what it’s like to be a member in the Canadian Forces. Before a member even picks up a rifle, he or she swears in; takes an oath to defend and serve our country in peace and war. Whether our boys and girls are over there for the right reason or the wrong ones, we should all be behind them. Most of us sure as hell wouldn’t have the balls to stare that type of danger in the face.

“The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.”

- Thucydides

[Pete]

well said

[Chantal]

Hey, Did you know Chavez was applauded at the UN today? They didn't applaude Canada and our soldiers. I'm really against George Bush because of what he did, no one forgets that you know? I can't help blaming him for getting us into this. I wish they didn't vote for that warmonger but maybe they were afraid and GB sounded like the right guy. But he was an alcoholic before so how was he the best

I'm just tired of the Lies, we had enough of these awful lies and I bet the soldiers are as well. For example, this one soldier I seen, seemed very angry that the suicide bomber got them when they were handing out food or something, I bet he was thinking why am I handing out food to these people?

[Beacon Final]

cpt sweet and juicy wrote (page 2);

so do I support our Canadian soldiers, no I dont. I dont hate them and I do feel sorry for them because they risk life and limb for an unjust and illegal cause

No I dont love this mission either. But you should get your facts straight. And I should not start sentences with the word but. Anyhoo, I thought the NATO mission in Afgannie had the backing of the UN..... oui, no?

Today the world is more messed up than ever. Darfur region in chaos, Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Everyone testing or making nukes in the past five years, millions upon million of black market arms STILL pouring out of Russia. Bush re-elected after starting another Nam for the states.

Hati, the Jews, the Lebs, Tie Domie retired..... the Chinese will be a super-power soon and North Korea will feed off such a superpower. This world is way more messed up and confusing than ever before. The cold war was a joke. There was only 2 teams. Now there are several teams with each team making sub teams within themselves.

Canada is only using half its ass. We should have an election soon. Then the whole country can stand together for staying or going. Going would be a shame and just a waste of the people we lost. And noone can say that Afganistan had nothing to do with 9/11. Yes it did, its was the HQ for the mission and held many training camps etc.

The liberals sent our people to Afganistan and the Tories made the mission longer.... If the NDP ever had a better chance of getting in power now is their time. I am not for them but this is there biggest chance since the early 80s.

I dunno what else to say except that if enough people want to pull out of Afganistan then lets vote on it.

[Adanac]

Capt.. you do like to hear yourself talk.

You made some valid points and the other points did nothing but just ruffle feathers. But you got all the points out there, so I can commend you on that.

However, you seem to be able to look over my shoulder, or read through my eyes as you wrote your reply. Why do I say this? The reason being is I believe you think you know what is going on in my head by reading one post, you have me figured out. I can assure you, this is not the case. (Maybe three or four it would become more obivous.)

I would really like to put in my two cents on why you would react this way or why you have a distaste for our friends to the south, but I have no time nor the desire to leap into what I am sure would become an all out exchange of ideals and opinons and I, like our fellow Canadian Soliders know when to pick a fight.

I can offer you one small scrap of comfort. That being when all hell breaks loose and the Korean's shoot their missles at us, or the USA mobilizes there tanks at our boarder, or the O'sama targets your town for an attack, people like me will put aside opinons of why this has happend, and come to your aid. You should know that there are people out there that have an opinon but will still actually stand up and do what needs to be done, regardless of why it has happend or what they believe. There is actually good in this world and it takes good people to make it happen. That is the one unwavering fact that you seem to overlook with each post you write. So I am curious Capt;

Would you stand up and help (Yes or no answer!)

Adanac