Dreamliner Down in India

[dustyroads]

The airlines seem to demand low experience. My thinking is airlines think the low time newly licensed are more up to date on regs etc whereas more experienced people have not done the heavy study work of late that it takes to get one’s licences. That’s the companies desire...

This is not true in any sense.

Yep, ridiculous statement!

I happened to recently had a chat with a 703 multi turbine captain with 14 plus years as captain who hasn’t been hired. This person was nice to chat with, they didn’t give any sort of impression they would be a headache to be crewed with. They have been a regular at this particular FBO for a number of years according to the reception lady. She said they’ve been trying to get on with Westjet Encore and Jazz as both operators have bases where they’re from which I assume now is only Calgary.

[Canoehead]

This is not true in any sense.

Yep, ridiculous statement!

I happened to recently had a chat with a 703 multi turbine captain with 14 plus years as captain who hasn’t been hired. This person was nice to chat with, they didn’t give any sort of impression they would be a headache to be crewed with. They have been a regular at this particular FBO for a number of years according to the reception lady. She said they’ve been trying to get on with Westjet Encore and Jazz as both operators have bases where they’re from which I assume now is only Calgary.

There could be any number of reasons why this person with whom you had a chat with has not been selected for the hiring process. You don't get hired at a company (any company) just because your number (hours or years of experience) comes up. Its not a seniority system, but it is a small world.

Your idea that airlines don't want to hire experienced pilots is incorrect.

How experience comes to play in yesterday's crash is far from being determined. I only hope that the authorities investigating are transparent in everything, including the hiring and training histories of the crew, whether directly related or not. I'm not certain about the history of the AAIB in India. Hopefully the NTSB has influence as a participant.

[Tbayer2021]

This is not true in any sense.

Yep, ridiculous statement!

I happened to recently had a chat with a 703 multi turbine captain with 14 plus years as captain who hasn’t been hired. This person was nice to chat with, they didn’t give any sort of impression they would be a headache to be crewed with. They have been a regular at this particular FBO for a number of years according to the reception lady. She said they’ve been trying to get on with Westjet Encore and Jazz as both operators have bases where they’re from which I assume now is only Calgary.

That turbine captain's name------Nicky Nick!

[sportingrifle]

I am not going to speculate until I have seen PDW’s analysis. Lol

[cdnavater]

I am not going to speculate until I have seen PDW’s analysis. Lol

Most certainly, I need the isobar study and multiple wind readings from around the airport before I can come to any kind of conclusion.

[Tbayer2021]

I am not going to speculate until I have seen PDW’s analysis. Lol

Most certainly, I need the isobar study and multiple wind readings from around the airport before I can come to any kind of conclusion.

AAHHHHH you beat me to it!

[cdnavater]

Yep, ridiculous statement!

I happened to recently had a chat with a 703 multi turbine captain with 14 plus years as captain who hasn’t been hired. This person was nice to chat with, they didn’t give any sort of impression they would be a headache to be crewed with. They have been a regular at this particular FBO for a number of years according to the reception lady. She said they’ve been trying to get on with Westjet Encore and Jazz as both operators have bases where they’re from which I assume now is only Calgary.

That turbine captain's name------Nicky Nick!

Or Happyflyer78 or KN84 or the latest dustyroads

[Rooster69]

I am not going to speculate until I have seen PDW’s analysis. Lol

There is one clown on Pprune talking about dust devils causing a dual flameout…..didn’t catch his handle though.

[pdw]

Fresh forest fire smoke? (See wundergound history Ahmenedad Airport history data June12 starting 12:30pm LT 104F/24rh NNW etc).

[cncpc]

I am not going to speculate until I have seen PDW’s analysis. Lol

There is one clown on Pprune talking about dust devils causing a dual flameout…..didn’t catch his handle though.

There is some brief moment at liftoff where the "dust devil" has the appearance of a wing tip vortex.

[Dias]

Let's not forget India is in conflict with a Muslim nation. There's millions of people around the world who are absolutely convinced a heaven awaits them if they kill themselves and take as many non-Muslims with them as possible.

EgyptAir Flight 990
LAM Mozambique Airlines Flight 470
Tunisair (Tuninter) Flight 115
American Airlines Flight 11
United Airlines Flight 175
American Airlines Flight 77
United Airlines Flight 93
Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (probably)

[newlygrounded]

Let's not forget India is in conflict with a Muslim nation. There's millions of people around the world who are absolutely convinced a heaven awaits them if they kill themselves and take as many non-Muslims with them as possible.

EgyptAir Flight 990
LAM Mozambique Airlines Flight 470
Tunisair (Tuninter) Flight 115
American Airlines Flight 11
United Airlines Flight 175
American Airlines Flight 77
United Airlines Flight 93
Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (probably)

Pilots are the one profession I see where people will throw their fellow brothers/sisters under the bus the second something happens

[sportingrifle]

Pictures of the wreckage show the APU air inlet open. The APU autostarts if both engines fail in flight.

[HavaJava]

Let's not forget India is in conflict with a Muslim nation. There's millions of people around the world who are absolutely convinced a heaven awaits them if they kill themselves and take as many non-Muslims with them as possible.

EgyptAir Flight 990
LAM Mozambique Airlines Flight 470
Tunisair (Tuninter) Flight 115
American Airlines Flight 11
United Airlines Flight 175
American Airlines Flight 77
United Airlines Flight 93
Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (probably)

Pilots are the one profession I see where people will throw their fellow brothers/sisters under the bus the second something happens

Well, I’ve heard so many pilots claim that it must have been the inexperienced FO raising the flaps instead of the gear even though there’s absolutely no evidence of that. Talk about throwing someone under the bus.

There is evidence of dual power loss and there are only limited ways that could happen.

I suspect a flight of this length (~9 hours) would have an augment pilot on board. We haven’t heard of additional crew yet but I have a feeling that if someone was sitting in the jumpseat that a thorough background check of them would be in order.

[Flight94]

Are bleeds off takeoffs common on a 787?

[sportingrifle]

I just edited my previous post. I am a “Triple” driver and while APU to Pack take offs are possible, they are almost never performed.

The packs on the 787 are electrically driven and never run from the apu. So the open apu door points to something really ugly.

[7ECA]

I just edited my previous post. I am a “Triple” driver and while APU to Pack take offs are possible, they are almost never performed.

The packs on the 787 are electrically driven and never run from the apu. So the open apu door points to something really ugly.

Could it be a case of the door simply opening on ground impact?

[Flight94]

I just edited my previous post. I am a “Triple” driver and while APU to Pack take offs are possible, they are almost never performed.

The packs on the 787 are electrically driven and never run from the apu. So the open apu door points to something really ugly.

Interesting, I didn't know that about the electrical packs. Thanks.

[sportingrifle]

I just edited my previous post. I am a “Triple” driver and while APU to Pack take offs are possible, they are almost never performed.

The packs on the 787 are electrically driven and never run from the apu. So the open apu door points to something really ugly.

Could it be a case of the door simply opening on ground impact?

No, the doors are latched very securely and require both unlatching and power opening. There is also no deformation of the structure around the door. The doors takes quite a while to open and the partial opening is indicative of the short period of time that the aircraft was airborne after the autostart initiated.

[Dias]

Well, I’ve heard so many pilots claim that it must have been the inexperienced FO raising the flaps instead of the gear even though there’s absolutely no evidence of that. Talk about throwing someone under the bus.

This bothered me a little as well. Is there even any evidence that the FO was the PM? There is some evidence that the Captain was the PM if he was one transmitting the Mayday call.

Nobody has mentioned a bomb yet either. There is some evidence of this since the survivor reported a loud bang sound before the lights flickered. Some are saying this was the RAT deploying but I'm not sure if it would make a loud bang. A wonder if a well placed small explosive in the airframe could knock out both engines.

[DanWEC]

That's a great observation sportingrifle.
I believe the preliminary evidence so far is supporting a loss of thrust. It's incongruous to watch the footage and reconcile flap retraction as the reason for the descent. Just wouldn't happen. I didn't think it added up from the first viewing.
Factor in the time and awareness for a Mayday call, evidence for possible rat extension, and apparent APU flap, and it's almost certain. The question now, is why? To me, it's either going to be sabotage, as mentioned above by ****, or major defect/failure. I just don't know what else could realistically be the cause of a dual engine fail.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

The aircraft wasn't even producing enough thrust while still on the the ground. They used up the whole runway getting airborne. When airborne they both flamed out. This will prove to be a computer/electronics problem caused by Neo-Boeing internal company corner cutting problems.

[HavaJava]

I still think the vital piece of missing information is whether there was somebody riding in the jumpseat.

Being a Star Alliance airline operating in 2025 I would be shocked if they didn’t have an augment pilot on a ~10 hour flight like this ( If it is 2 crew…well, their fatigue rules should probably be revisited at a later date).

I’m just going to say it, whoever was in the jumpseat I think will be found to be the cause of the accident. I would imagine this will be a very sensitive political issue considering the current religious and geopolitical tension in that region. We’ve seen how politics can muddy things ie. Egyptair990 and MH370.

[cncpc]

Pictures of the wreckage show the APU air inlet open. The APU autostarts if both engines fail in flight.

Well spotted.

[cncpc]

Well, I’ve heard so many pilots claim that it must have been the inexperienced FO raising the flaps instead of the gear even though there’s absolutely no evidence of that. Talk about throwing someone under the bus.

This bothered me a little as well. Is there even any evidence that the FO was the PM? There is some evidence that the Captain was the PM if he was one transmitting the Mayday call.

Nobody has mentioned a bomb yet either. There is some evidence of this since the survivor reported a loud bang sound before the lights flickered. Some are saying this was the RAT deploying but I'm not sure if it would make a loud bang. A wonder if a well placed small explosive in the airframe could knock out both engines.

I had a look into that. I thought the switches would be one either side of the quadrant, but it seems they are quite close together. The bit I read stated the flaps work off a lever, and the gear a switch. I've seen elsewhere that the lever may be the usual aerofoil type flap handle and the gear switch is really what it's been for decades.

I got the impression the captain was PNF (PM).