How competitive is 750+ Total Time?

[pelmet]

Hmm… I actually worked for PASCO. Was not my experience. Mind you, this was a long time ago. I had worked up north and had twin turbine time, but all of my PIC time was instructor. Probably just biases of amateur hiring managers at these revolving door companies.. plus I bet they get more instructor candidates that want to remain urban than those who head up north with less time to get hired to do the same jobs.

I’d also argue against right seat turbine time being more valuable because it entirely depends on the company. Some have the FOs immersed in the operation and basically being captain in terms of flying and decision making depending on their previous experience or how long they’ve been with the company.

But some are literally just gear and flap operators. Watching influencer videos on YouTube would give you the same experience and responsibility.. the only difference is you can’t log it.

Meanwhile an instructor has to do decision making and risk assessment and is ultimately responsible for the safe flight. Students coming up with new and creative ways to kill you makes your time as a training or line indoc captain far easier.

Right seat turbine time is actual aircraft flying. Instructor time can be good for a company that has a need for instructing. Otherwise, I would definitely take the operational experience of someone operating into remote strips, fighting bad weather, real world IFR operations, aircraft loading considerations, passenger handling, etc. Having that plus some instructor time is good. All instructor PIC time is not nearly as good as some instructor time and a bunch of PIC in other areas as well.

[digits_]

It's almost as if it depends on the individual's attitude as well. Who would have thought?

[dustyroads]

I don't buy that instructing counts as multi-crew experience that requires CRM. There's a huge difference between two pilots who are trained to work together and share responsibility for the outcome of the flight, and an instructor providing direction to a student; the latter doesn't involve them working together to solve problems in normal circumstances. The lesson plans are clearly laid out, there's no need to set up approaches or calculate performance, and the student simply isn't trained for CRM. It's a very dictatorial environment.

I did initial training at a 705 with a career instructor who had thousands of hours and decades of experience, and he looked down on everyone else in the class because he had more total time than the rest of us. He walked around like his shit didn't stink, and he claimed he had enormous amounts of CRM experience because every flight he did had two pilots. It became apparent in the very first sim session that he was utterly wrong about that, because he kept trying to do everything himself, and I had to keep telling him that I was there to help him. He tried running an emergency checklist while flying the plane, he put the flaps and gear down when he was the PF instead of telling me to do it, and when he was about to do something prohibited and I informed him he shouldn't do it he barked that he knew what he was doing. Needless to say, I proceeded to my PPC, and he didn't receive a recommend.

How would the career instructor make it through the hiring process in the first place? An applicant out east with 703 experience doing actual IFR often into yqx yyt etc would have more relevant experience for 705 ops than a career instructor. Maybe actual line pilots should have more say over who’s hired than HR.

[‘Bob’]

I don't buy that instructing counts as multi-crew experience that requires CRM. There's a huge difference between two pilots who are trained to work together and share responsibility for the outcome of the flight, and an instructor providing direction to a student; the latter doesn't involve them working together to solve problems in normal circumstances. The lesson plans are clearly laid out, there's no need to set up approaches or calculate performance, and the student simply isn't trained for CRM. It's a very dictatorial environment.

I did initial training at a 705 with a career instructor who had thousands of hours and decades of experience, and he looked down on everyone else in the class because he had more total time than the rest of us. He walked around like his shit didn't stink, and he claimed he had enormous amounts of CRM experience because every flight he did had two pilots. It became apparent in the very first sim session that he was utterly wrong about that, because he kept trying to do everything himself, and I had to keep telling him that I was there to help him. He tried running an emergency checklist while flying the plane, he put the flaps and gear down when he was the PF instead of telling me to do it, and when he was about to do something prohibited and I informed him he shouldn't do it he barked that he knew what he was doing. Needless to say, I proceeded to my PPC, and he didn't receive a recommend.

How would the career instructor make it through the hiring process in the first place? An applicant out east with 703 experience doing actual IFR often into yqx yyt etc would have more relevant experience for 705 ops than a career instructor. Maybe actual line pilots should have more say over who’s hired than HR.

Yeah.. that sounds like more the exception than the rule.

In my experience.. it’s single pilot 703 types who get DEC or fast upgrade because of high PIC and “actual” experience who wind up running it like a single pilot ship.

This isn’t anecdotal. Here’s a deadly example of a high time Twin Otter pilot now flying a two crew King Air who didn’t even listen to his own passengers about the condition of his plane.. much less his FO.. and got overwhelmed by a situation of his own making. RIP.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-inve ... p0149.html

Basic CRM is fucking easy because just like instructing is.. supposedly “it’s all clearly laid out”. Loading an approach? Please.. another thing you can learn on YT or MSFS. The “emergencies” where you have to be right on your CRM in a two crew operation happen every day in the instructing world. With an unknown rather than a known quantity sitting beside you.. who isn’t going to gain anything if you just say “I have control” every time something isn’t perfect. Training and line indoc is different.. but vanilla line flying? They’ve already met the standard.

And how many times have two crew planes lost control, blown altitudes, etc not because of the finer points of CRM which are one of a gauntlet of safety systems in aircraft.. but basic aircraft control because they were focusing too hard on CRM?

And one thing I’ve continually noticed both when I was learning to fly two crew and as a training captain is how much “operational” guys hover over the controls, micromanage, stream of consciousness coach all the way to landing like he’s a goddamn LSO on a carrier deck, ask for control, and escalate rather than de escalate things in the cockpit, and waste my time with debriefable bullshit when in the air.. THATS a dictatorial environment.. not trying to instil PDM into someone who has to do it themselves in 15-20 hours TT.

…vs me who will call out SOP deviations calmly and have seen some of the worst landings imaginable but knew that they were safe and not going to break the airplane. It takes a lot for me to take control.. and this calm manner of monitoring is directly from my instructing days.

How does a career instructor even get hired? lol. All the time! They aren’t going straight into left seat. They will be behind the plane for a week, struggling for a month, proficient by 3 months for probationary reviews. And if you think that a guy with PIC time in a piston single or SIC time and “PIC” US in a turbine twin has an edge.. I’ve got oceanfront property in Alberta to sell you. I’ve seen them all come through training.

[digits_]

On a somewhat relevant side note: how many of the pilots here who value instructor time as less valuable, actually do have some instructor experience?