cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2026 8:20 am
Anyone know how many AR pilots are actually on the roster?
50 currently. 25 non AR guys retired in 2025, another 25 to add to that this year. 200 eligible in the next 3 years. Also, not everyone retires right at 65. I know a bunch of skippers who will leave at 60, so upgrades are definitely coming
So, if I’m reading that correctly, for every AR that stays, someone under 65 retires?
This has always been my opinion on the matter, I plan to retire at 60 which offsets one who wants to keep going, I find this “get out of my way” attitude to be extremely selfish and part of the generation coming up through the ranks these days.
Not a boomer, just a realist, I’ve literally heard new pilots talking about how they should be paid top scale from day one, equal pay for equal work was the point of their conversation. Also received a lot of condemnation for getting a higher “bonus” because I had been there longer during the last contract.
Time equals money, more time, more money but that is lost on this generation!
Cue the vitriol
cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2026 8:20 am
Anyone know how many AR pilots are actually on the roster?
50 currently. 25 non AR guys retired in 2025, another 25 to add to that this year. 200 eligible in the next 3 years. Also, not everyone retires right at 65. I know a bunch of skippers who will leave at 60, so upgrades are definitely coming
So, if I’m reading that correctly, for every AR that stays, someone under 65 retires?
This has always been my opinion on the matter, I plan to retire at 60 which offsets one who wants to keep going, I find this “get out of my way” attitude to be extremely selfish and part of the generation coming up through the ranks these days.
Not a boomer, just a realist, I’ve literally heard new pilots talking about how they should be paid top scale from day one, equal pay for equal work was the point of their conversation. Also received a lot of condemnation for getting a higher “bonus” because I had been there longer during the last contract.
Time equals money, more time, more money but that is lost on this generation!
Cue the vitriol
You definitely read that incorrectly. I was just giving realistic numbers based on what I know through the position assignment list. The company is always reactive instead of proactive. Affects the bottom line.
cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2026 8:20 am
Anyone know how many AR pilots are actually on the roster?
50 currently. 25 non AR guys retired in 2025, another 25 to add to that this year. 200 eligible in the next 3 years. Also, not everyone retires right at 65. I know a bunch of skippers who will leave at 60, so upgrades are definitely coming
So, if I’m reading that correctly, for every AR that stays, someone under 65 retires?
This has always been my opinion on the matter, I plan to retire at 60 which offsets one who wants to keep going, I find this “get out of my way” attitude to be extremely selfish and part of the generation coming up through the ranks these days.
Not a boomer, just a realist, I’ve literally heard new pilots talking about how they should be paid top scale from day one, equal pay for equal work was the point of their conversation. Also received a lot of condemnation for getting a higher “bonus” because I had been there longer during the last contract.
Time equals money, more time, more money but that is lost on this generation!
Cue the vitriol
Yes your completely tone deaf "buy a slow cooker" and don't drink coffee bullshit is well documented on this forum. You don't have a clue.
Apart from all the reasons in terms of pay, upgrades, etc listed here already, I frankly wouldn't want to be sitting next to some 70 yr old loser who can't let go of this job. The fact that these senior citizens feel the need to keep clinging on tells me everything I need to know about their ego and that is not someone who I would want to share a cockpit with. Not to mention the very real danger of cognitive decline and loss of physical acuity. The only selfishness present in this whole scenario is these idiots putting themselves ahead of safety and common sense so they can milk more money out to the last gasp.
50 currently. 25 non AR guys retired in 2025, another 25 to add to that this year. 200 eligible in the next 3 years. Also, not everyone retires right at 65. I know a bunch of skippers who will leave at 60, so upgrades are definitely coming
So, if I’m reading that correctly, for every AR that stays, someone under 65 retires?
This has always been my opinion on the matter, I plan to retire at 60 which offsets one who wants to keep going, I find this “get out of my way” attitude to be extremely selfish and part of the generation coming up through the ranks these days.
Not a boomer, just a realist, I’ve literally heard new pilots talking about how they should be paid top scale from day one, equal pay for equal work was the point of their conversation. Also received a lot of condemnation for getting a higher “bonus” because I had been there longer during the last contract.
Time equals money, more time, more money but that is lost on this generation!
Cue the vitriol
You definitely read that incorrectly. I was just giving realistic numbers based on what I know through the position assignment list. The company is always reactive instead of proactive. Affects the bottom line.
Ok, I’m not sure how else to interpret 50 AR guys currently, 25 non AR(presume under 65) retired, another 25 to add to that(presumed non AR), this would be 1 for 1.
Did you mean another 25 AR to add to the 50 already on the roster?
Anyhow, I personally don’t care if a pilot keeps working, that is their choice and right, no one has the right to push them out because they think they deserve it.
50 currently. 25 non AR guys retired in 2025, another 25 to add to that this year. 200 eligible in the next 3 years. Also, not everyone retires right at 65. I know a bunch of skippers who will leave at 60, so upgrades are definitely coming
So, if I’m reading that correctly, for every AR that stays, someone under 65 retires?
This has always been my opinion on the matter, I plan to retire at 60 which offsets one who wants to keep going, I find this “get out of my way” attitude to be extremely selfish and part of the generation coming up through the ranks these days.
Not a boomer, just a realist, I’ve literally heard new pilots talking about how they should be paid top scale from day one, equal pay for equal work was the point of their conversation. Also received a lot of condemnation for getting a higher “bonus” because I had been there longer during the last contract.
Time equals money, more time, more money but that is lost on this generation!
Cue the vitriol
Yes your completely tone deaf "buy a slow cooker" and don't drink coffee bullshit is well documented on this forum. You don't have a clue.
Apart from all the reasons in terms of pay, upgrades, etc listed here already, I frankly wouldn't want to be sitting next to some 70 yr old loser who can't let go of this job. The fact that these senior citizens feel the need to keep clinging on tells me everything I need to know about their ego and that is not someone who I would want to share a cockpit with. Not to mention the very real danger of cognitive decline and loss of physical acuity. The only selfishness present in this whole scenario is these idiots putting themselves ahead of safety and common sense so they can milk more money out to the last gasp.
It’s you are(you’re) not your, however I’m not oblivious to your plight, I think you’re underpaid(not sarcasm), clearly the airlines don’t value your contribution as much as the senile, decrepit old bastards still occupying your seat(yes sarcasm)!
Safety, what a joke, they pass a SIM check every 6 months like everyone else, as a SIM instructor, I find sessions with the old guys much more enjoyable and far less talking about what went wrong than with the newer Captains!
Anyhow, we won’t convince each other to agree, so I’m out but not to worry, someone can claim my left seat 5 years ahead of schedule, you’re welcome!
So, if I’m reading that correctly, for every AR that stays, someone under 65 retires?
This has always been my opinion on the matter, I plan to retire at 60 which offsets one who wants to keep going, I find this “get out of my way” attitude to be extremely selfish and part of the generation coming up through the ranks these days.
Not a boomer, just a realist, I’ve literally heard new pilots talking about how they should be paid top scale from day one, equal pay for equal work was the point of their conversation. Also received a lot of condemnation for getting a higher “bonus” because I had been there longer during the last contract.
Time equals money, more time, more money but that is lost on this generation!
Cue the vitriol
You definitely read that incorrectly. I was just giving realistic numbers based on what I know through the position assignment list. The company is always reactive instead of proactive. Affects the bottom line.
Ok, I’m not sure how else to interpret 50 AR guys currently, 25 non AR(presume under 65) retired, another 25 to add to that(presumed non AR), this would be 1 for 1.
Did you mean another 25 AR to add to the 50 already on the roster?
Anyhow, I personally don’t care if a pilot keeps working, that is their choice and right, no one has the right to push them out because they think they deserve it.
What I meant was we had 25 people retire in 2025, wheather they were 65 or not im not entirely sure. We just had 10 pilots retire alone in 2026 so far.
So, if I’m reading that correctly, for every AR that stays, someone under 65 retires?
This has always been my opinion on the matter, I plan to retire at 60 which offsets one who wants to keep going, I find this “get out of my way” attitude to be extremely selfish and part of the generation coming up through the ranks these days.
Not a boomer, just a realist, I’ve literally heard new pilots talking about how they should be paid top scale from day one, equal pay for equal work was the point of their conversation. Also received a lot of condemnation for getting a higher “bonus” because I had been there longer during the last contract.
Time equals money, more time, more money but that is lost on this generation!
Cue the vitriol
Yes your completely tone deaf "buy a slow cooker" and don't drink coffee bullshit is well documented on this forum. You don't have a clue.
Apart from all the reasons in terms of pay, upgrades, etc listed here already, I frankly wouldn't want to be sitting next to some 70 yr old loser who can't let go of this job. The fact that these senior citizens feel the need to keep clinging on tells me everything I need to know about their ego and that is not someone who I would want to share a cockpit with. Not to mention the very real danger of cognitive decline and loss of physical acuity. The only selfishness present in this whole scenario is these idiots putting themselves ahead of safety and common sense so they can milk more money out to the last gasp.
It’s you are(you’re) not your, however I’m not oblivious to your plight, I think you’re underpaid(not sarcasm), clearly the airlines don’t value your contribution as much as the senile, decrepit old bastards still occupying your seat(yes sarcasm)!
Safety, what a joke, they pass a SIM check every 6 months like everyone else, as a SIM instructor, I find sessions with the old guys much more enjoyable and far less talking about what went wrong than with the newer Captains!
Anyhow, we won’t convince each other to agree, so I’m out but not to worry, someone can claim my left seat 5 years ahead of schedule, you’re welcome!
Try again on your reading and grammar comprehension, I'm using the correct form.
Yes I'm sure someone who has been operating the same type for 30+ years can pass a check ride, that's not the point. And it doesn't mean safety isn't being compromised. Like it or not brain processing speed begins to decline significantly from age 60 onwards. Same for memory. It's why mandatory retirement age was 60 for a very long time until boomers decided they could go to 65. Now even that's not enough. There is no reason for this other than greed.
Yes your completely tone deaf "buy a slow cooker" and don't drink coffee bullshit is well documented on this forum. You don't have a clue.
Apart from all the reasons in terms of pay, upgrades, etc listed here already, I frankly wouldn't want to be sitting next to some 70 yr old loser who can't let go of this job. The fact that these senior citizens feel the need to keep clinging on tells me everything I need to know about their ego and that is not someone who I would want to share a cockpit with. Not to mention the very real danger of cognitive decline and loss of physical acuity. The only selfishness present in this whole scenario is these idiots putting themselves ahead of safety and common sense so they can milk more money out to the last gasp.
It’s you are(you’re) not your, however I’m not oblivious to your plight, I think you’re underpaid(not sarcasm), clearly the airlines don’t value your contribution as much as the senile, decrepit old bastards still occupying your seat(yes sarcasm)!
Safety, what a joke, they pass a SIM check every 6 months like everyone else, as a SIM instructor, I find sessions with the old guys much more enjoyable and far less talking about what went wrong than with the newer Captains!
Anyhow, we won’t convince each other to agree, so I’m out but not to worry, someone can claim my left seat 5 years ahead of schedule, you’re welcome!
Try again on your reading and grammar comprehension, I'm using the correct form.
Yes I'm sure someone who has been operating the same type for 30+ years can pass a check ride, that's not the point. And it doesn't mean safety isn't being compromised. Like it or not brain processing speed begins to decline significantly from age 60 onwards. Same for memory. It's why mandatory retirement age was 60 for a very long time until boomers decided they could go to 65. Now even that's not enough. There is no reason for this other than greed.
Ah, I see, not my comments though, so not really well documented, now I see why I made the mistake, you attributed comments I didn’t make to me. Where I assumed you just had bad grammar and don’t like to use punctuation like commas, etc.
Talking upgrades when downgrades and layoffs will hit soon?
Removing the AR program will help going forward for recalls over the next year or two, but getting rid of the handful of AR pilots flying now is not going to reduce upgrade time.
The next year or two will see the company shrink before things get better.
Is the program sustainable? No. But it’s not the main reason holding back progression at this point.
Pilots are the most expensive employees to layoff. Meaning it cost the company a lot to bring back and train up. It takes time. We a provision in our contract to prevent layoffs like reduced block hours and zero block months that the company uses.
Those provisions are to accommodate seasonal fluctuations in crewing requirements (shoulder seasons).
If the number of excess pilots becomes too much to handle through temporary zero blocks or if this crisis drags on much longer, layoffs are next. Even those who do take advantage have a limit to how much time they are willing to go without pay. Having the summer off sounds nice, but those pilots will want to work again come fall.
My guess is we are nearing a reduction bid with the closure of one or two smaller bases. The 10-20% excess required for each base is huge.
truecolours wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2026 7:18 am
Those provisions are to accommodate seasonal fluctuations in crewing requirements (shoulder seasons).
If the number of excess pilots becomes too much to handle through temporary zero blocks or if this crisis drags on much longer, layoffs are next. Even those who do take advantage have a limit to how much time they are willing to go without pay. Having the summer off sounds nice, but those pilots will want to work again come fall.
My guess is we are nearing a reduction bid with the closure of one or two smaller bases. The 10-20% excess required for each base is huge.
truecolours wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2026 12:23 pm
It will be YUL due to lack of connections to any other point in our network. It’s too hard to get extra crew there if they need more resources.
truecolours wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2026 12:23 pm
It will be YUL due to lack of connections to any other point in our network. It’s too hard to get extra crew there if they need more resources.
The fact that it's to hard to get crew there is the reason why it should and will remain a base. Btw, it's not hard to get crews there. WJ uses AC if they need to sometime. Westjet/SWG Vacation is equal to or bigger in Quebec than all of Canada. The hotel cost for crews would be enormous.
truecolours wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2026 12:23 pm
It will be YUL due to lack of connections to any other point in our network. It’s too hard to get extra crew there if they need more resources.
Agreed. There are less than 10 daily flights out of YUL, and only 4 domestic flights (2 to YYC and 2 to YYZ). YUL is a small base too. If we were to close a base, I could see YUL being consolidated into YYZ and becoming a seasonal base.
Insanity wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2026 4:48 am
Its crazy there are 70 year old dudes still wanting fly!
Honest question. Why? There are several careers where people work till death.
Politicians, Lawyers, surgeons, artists, to name a few (there’s actually a couple of people in their 70s working at my local Safeway)
Insanity wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2026 4:48 am
Its crazy there are 70 year old dudes still wanting fly!
Honest question. Why? There are several careers where people work till death.
Politicians, Lawyers, surgeons, artists, to name a few (there’s actually a couple of people in their 70s working at my local Safeway)
Imagine comparing those jobs you mentioned to ours
CXALE wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2026 9:49 am
Honest question. Why? There are several careers where people work till death.
Politicians, Lawyers, surgeons, artists, to name a few (there’s actually a couple of people in their 70s working at my local Safeway)
Surgeon's don't operate until they die. The operate until their fine motor skills start deteriorating then they start cutting back on the OR time and do more training/mentorship.
truecolours wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2026 12:23 pm
It will be YUL due to lack of connections to any other point in our network. It’s too hard to get extra crew there if they need more resources.
Agreed. There are less than 10 daily flights out of YUL, and only 4 domestic flights (2 to YYC and 2 to YYZ). YUL is a small base too. If we were to close a base, I could see YUL being consolidated into YYZ and becoming a seasonal base.
YUL and YQB together are 19 flights/day in the winter, it's just the lack of Cuba that means only 14 flights/day in the summer
truecolours wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2026 12:23 pm
It will be YUL due to lack of connections to any other point in our network. It’s too hard to get extra crew there if they need more resources.
Agreed. There are less than 10 daily flights out of YUL, and only 4 domestic flights (2 to YYC and 2 to YYZ). YUL is a small base too. If we were to close a base, I could see YUL being consolidated into YYZ and becoming a seasonal base.
YUL and YQB together are 19 flights/day in the winter, it's just the lack of Cuba that means only 14 flights/day in the summer
I see 8 flights out of YUL today, same for tomorrow, I think it was 9 yesterday.
Even though it’s shoulder season, those are low numbers for a base.
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Last edited by phenix on Thu May 28, 2026 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It turns out Boomers didn't save a single penny for retirement. What happens now? They're banking on their children to take care of them in retirement.
Dry Guy wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2026 5:47 pm
It turns out Boomers didn't save a single penny for retirement. What happens now? They're banking on their children to take care of them in retirement.
Question for you: How old do you think a Boomer is?
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I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!
