BAD NEWS

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:32 am

Man, seems like a lifetime ago, about 20 years now. Kinda miss those days.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:05 pm

I hardly believe that. If you're to be believed, you have the best job in the universe over at big red! No complaints from you!

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:36 pm

Nothing beats what I do now but if I were in my twenties again I'd be eating arctic char up north for sure. The koolaide's a bit stronger up there too.

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:41 pm

delete

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:08 pm

delete

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:54 pm

awwww, c'mon guys, what did you delete?

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:38 pm

Something to do with fruit comparison.

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:22 am

Wow.. WJA posts profit of $26.7M for Q4 (and that's NET income).

Profit vs. loss, apples vs oranges eh Tony?

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:08 am

Wow.. WJA posts profit of $26.7M for Q4 (and that's NET income).

Profit vs. loss, apples vs oranges eh Tony?

That just shows how shallow you are. But quite predictable. The sad part for me is that after all those posts on this topic, it was just a waist of my time. You just don't get it, do you? Apples and oranges doesn't mean one is better than the other, just different in the way we do business. That means we make our money differently. Someday when your company is all grown up, if it gets that far, we'll try this topic again. And if it doesn't grow, that might be the best thing for you. It will remain apples and oranges. But sadly, you will never accept that. Profits are great. Just keep doing what you're doing. I'm sure with such great news, unions are going to be at your doorstep soon. Enjoy it while it lasts CanadaEh, and congradulations, well done.

PeteThePilot · Post by **PeteThePilot** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:16 am

Ummm...

Can you guys take this outside please, you're scaring the hired help.

Huge Hammer · Post by **Huge Hammer** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:25 am

Hi Tony

I think you would have more success with your apples vs oranges arguemnet if you were not so condescending when delivering it.

"Airline being grown up"...please give me a break.

Unions have been knocking on the door since day 1.

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:49 am

That just shows how shallow you are. But quite predictable. The sad part for me is that after all those posts on this topic, it was just a waist of my time. You just don't get it, do you? Apples and oranges doesn't mean one is better than the other, just different in the way we do business. That means we make our money differently. Someday when your company is all grown up, if it gets that far, we'll try this topic again. And if it doesn't grow, that might be the best thing for you. It will remain apples and oranges. But sadly, you will never accept that. Profits are great. Just keep doing what you're doing. I'm sure with such great news, unions are going to be at your doorstep soon. Enjoy it while it lasts CanadaEh, and congradulations, well done.

Shallow.

You know tony, it's you that doesn't get it. Airlines make money by flying people from A to B. Apples to Apples. You can stand on your high horse by saying you're better or different because you fly bigger airplanes, longer distances, more cities, or whatever else you want to use to differentiate between the two; but at the end of the day we make money by flying people not selling parts of our businesses. Apples vs apples.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:56 am

You can stand on your high horse by saying you're better or different because you fly bigger airplanes, longer distances, more cities, or whatever else you want to use to differentiate between the two; but at the end of the day we make money by flying people not selling parts of our businesses. Apples vs apples.

No high horse, no better, no worse. Just different cost structures. At the end of the day, yours are lower than ours. For now. You have a very simplistic way of trying to make WJ seem like AC. Sorry Eh, it just doesn't jive. Like I said, congrats. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Pete.
Sorry for scaring ya man. Just having a little fun. How's the trailer park?

Hammer.
You're right. Some of it does sound condascending. Sorry. Just shop talk.
Good to see a company like yours doing well. Not good to see how some are flaunting it and having that "writing on the wall" attitude that comes straight from Clive. Certainly not doing any honorable justice to your success. I'm surprised at how few of my colleaugues are not responding to it. Or maybe they're doing the right thing.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:09 pm

I think I should point out that I saw the 'writing on the wall' long before I ever heard Clive talk. It's just that I agree with him, I guess.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:58 pm

Too bad kid. You would have looked real good in that 777. But I guess that writing was on the wall too. Oh jeeze, there's that size thing again. Sorry.

W5 · Post by W5 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:29 pm

Sheesh, if you are going strictly for size you should have applied for Cathay.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:40 pm

Would have loved to have worked there.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:52 pm

Hey Folks a reality check..

AC costs are too high and the employee groups are going to have to face that reality. Either become part of the solution or remain part of the problem.

WJ have their costs under control at the present time but factures are beginning to appear. Pilots are well remunerated but most contract/permanent employees are underpaid and that will come back to bit them.

The airline industry business model has changed, unfortunately not for the better.

In my opinion only..

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:32 pm

Rebel

Air Canada does have higher costs and yes they need to be brought down, however, pilot salaries or salaries in general are not the problem. How often do you have to piss away fuel waiting for a gate or leave an APU running because nobody can be bothered to plug in a GPU? Costs are escalating due to lack of diligence and piss poor management. Just my opinion.

Tony

The idea of making money by simply moving passengers from A to B is indeed a novel concept in todays business world. Westjet is successful at it. Frankly it bothers me that everything at Air Canada has a "for sale" sign hanging on it.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:09 pm

JS.
It bothers me too but what bothers me most is the writeoff mentality. None of us here are qualified to write anybody off. The results for the year are not even out yet and AC has already been written off. We will not be WJ and WJ is not AC. Live with it. Wake up and smell the coffee, they are making fun of you. WJ is not making money because they have a more efficient ground operation, they do it on the backs of their brainwashed employees and they don't have the expenses of a bigger company. They don't fly what we do and are able to control their costs. AC has made leaps and bounds to control costs. The only thing that worries me now is how our crony managers will spend our money.

Huge Hammer · Post by **Huge Hammer** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:23 pm

most contract/permanent employees are underpaid and that will come back to bit them.

Care to back up your statement at all? Sounds like more BS from those who just don't get it.

Speaking of that...

WJ is not making money because they have a more efficient ground operation, they do it on the backs of their brainwashed employees and they don't have the expenses of a bigger company.

More "shop talk" Anthony? I am beginning to think that you have an obsession with WS employees they way you claim that everyone who is not at AC is jealous of the big plane you claim you fly.

Hey Anthony maybe one day you can work here. I can give you some interview pointers if you want. The grooming on turns is actually kind of fun...you can have fun here, sounds crazy I know.

Keep working and one day you will make it at WS.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:25 pm

Huge Hammer wrote:
most contract/permanent employees are underpaid and that will come back to bit them.
Care to back up your statement at all? Sounds like more BS from those who just don't get it.

.

Be happy too. Low cost means a dilution in safety it shouldn’t, but it does, you get what you pay for. A recent WJ de-icing incident in YOW makes my point…. On another note as long as the grooming on turns is not done by off duty employees (as it’s a security no-no) I personally think it’s a great idea and wish AC employees were so inspired...

AC is forced to compete with one hand tied behind its back on an uneven playing field. The employees at AC are held to a higher standard which comes with a premium that the traveling public is unwilling to pay for. There is no way that anyone can compare apples to apples in this situation. The only possible upside is that the Government will never allow AC to fail because after all this is Canada and AC is an instrument of Government policy.

Having said this it’s still up to the AC employees to bring down our operating costs by being more efficient. Our unions have failed us miserably in this regard.

In my opinion..

Huge Hammer · Post by **Huge Hammer** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:49 pm

Be happy too. Low cost means a dilution in safety it shouldn’t, but it does, you get what you pay for. A recent WJ de-icing incident in YOW makes my point…. On another note as long as the grooming on turns is not done by off duty employees (as it’s a security no-no) I personally think it’s a great idea and wish AC employees were so inspired...

AC is forced to compete with one hand tied behind its back on an uneven playing field. The employees at AC are held to a higher standard which comes with a premium that the traveling public is unwilling to pay for.

I call BS on your post. Low cost does not mean a dilution in safety.

How exactly is off duty employees doing grooming a saftey no-no?

If someone has a legit criticism then fine, let's hear it...but this is just crap slinging with no fact behind it so it becomes hard to take seriously.

I really don't care about the whole apples to oranges arguement however I do enjoy reading the verbal gymnastics that go on to justify a poster's own position.

It makes me laugh though when the same tired wrong arguements and points get trotted out over and over.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:55 am

Huge Hammer wrote:
Be happy too. Low cost means a dilution in safety it shouldn’t, but it does, you get what you pay for. A recent WJ de-icing incident in YOW makes my point…. On another note as long as the grooming on turns is not done by off duty employees (as it’s a security no-no) I personally think it’s a great idea and wish AC employees were so inspired...

AC is forced to compete with one hand tied behind its back on an uneven playing field. The employees at AC are held to a higher standard which comes with a premium that the traveling public is unwilling to pay for.
I call BS on your post. Low cost does not mean a dilution in safety.

How exactly is off duty employees doing grooming a saftey no-no?

If someone has a legit criticism then fine, let's hear it...but this is just crap slinging with no fact behind it so it becomes hard to take seriously.

I really don't care about the whole apples to oranges arguement however I do enjoy reading the verbal gymnastics that go on to justify a poster's own position.

It makes me laugh though when the same tired wrong arguements and points get trotted out over and over.

Ignorance on the conditions of your security pass is not a legal option.Take up your argument with security it's not my idea..

Unfortunately low cost does dilute safety regardless of your opinion. The WJ YOW incident was a perfect example of that, of course you can be in denial all you want.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:55 am

Hammer.
I'd love to work at WJ. But for now I have something better to do.