High risk occupation?

[TC Guy]

I would be up front with said student and use an example such as playing a musical instrument, I like music but just do not have the ability to learn to play musical instruments.

I would be very clear in explaining that said student may never grasp the how to fly and that is nothing to be ashamed of, as we are all different.

So as not to let the student down and really destroy their self worth I would tell them that even though I have given my opinion the decision to quit flying or to continue is entirely up to the individual and by all means keep trying if that is what makes them happy.

As a token of my sincerity I would offer to be their full time instructor as often as my time constraints allowed and I would do my best to turn around whatever problem was preventing the student from progressing..

That is how I would handle it.

Very classy, and well said.

I have had to do that several times in my career, and although it has never been "pleasant", the student always seemed to appreciate it. In some cases, it seemed like a relief -- a weight taken off their shoulders.

I do have to admit, if has gotten to that point where I would have this discussion with them (and it was never a surprise to the student in question) I discontinued training altogether. I could no longer take their money (even if just for the aircraft).

*In some cases*, I did add is that we are all at different points in our lives... if at some later time (when they have possibly resolved some issues in thier lives) if they wished to come back and try again, to look me up.

-Guy

[trey kule]

blue side down wrote

tries to fly base to final at 1.05 Vs.

this is a little off topic, but it got my attention. for longer than I can remember, I have heard pilots answer the questions as to what your approach speed should be as 1.3 Vs. and you know what. Not one....not one..of the airspeed indicators I have looked at has a mark for Vs 1.3 or, as above //vs1.05. blue lines, red lines colored arcs ...yep all there.
So I have to ask, why would you not state your student was flying base to final 10 knots to slow or something like that.
Now why am I getting all snarkety at this? Because I see to many commercial pilots coming out of schools who can not seem to nail a target airspeed, and dont understand that configuration, type of approach etc, may require a different airspeed. And unless you have a specific airspeed to use as a target it is hard to nail it right on.....my rant for the day.

As to the actual thread, seems everyone is pretty much in agreement on this one, does it not?

[Cat Driver]

" Because I see to many commercial pilots coming out of schools who can not seem to nail a target airspeed, "

All to often this is because they are not taught properly from the get go.

They " airspeed needle chase "

Just watch them climb out after take off airspeed hunting instead of attitude maintaining.

[Shiny Side Up]

Firstly thanks for the answer Cat, while I can't say I've been so kind as to take students to dinner (lord knows I don't make that much money) Its much the same approach I've taken, with a good sit down talk with a student (and in some cases with their parents too) which ends up in a world of good for both sides.

And if the student is knowingly reckless, figures he can take whatever risks he wants and it's nobody else's business? It's not uncommon for people these days to think that if you are taking their money they should get to make the rules. Somewhere between grade school and the airport people seem to forget to respect their instructors. Has anyone ever succeeded with a student like this? To the best of my knowledge the student I dealt will was still not licenced when the instructor AFTER me moved on.(His 5th instructor 3 years later)

If said student mets the time and skill requirements - send them for their test. Unfortunately for you this might mean for a fail on your record, something not enough students really appreciate that their instructors risk. In some cases, if the student is foolish enough to reveal said poor attitude to a DFTE, now you have a very official evaluation of their qualifications as a pilot. Keep your ass covered by making sure their PTR is well filled out, and document any safety concerns and such discussions you have with them. More importantly if said student ever does do something solo that is blatantly unsafe or illegal, you also have grounds for terminating their flight training.

That being said, I have managed to get a few uncooperative students through their flight test - especially those who have their own aircraft (To which I of course couldn't possibly know as well as them ) to get through their test and momentarily convince them to be reasonable, consientious, dilligent and courteous people. But some of them are just plain incorrigable. To date I have had three students who I have really regretted ever giving my time to, two of which I very reluctantly signed their reccommend, all of which passed their flight test on the first try.

Since then between the three there have been three aircraft come to grief (two of which were written off, the damage being that extensive) There have been five times that I know of where they have declared emergencies and several instances of flying an aircraft not so equipped into known icing. Fortunately they have not killed anyone, Unfortunately they are still out there flying.

[trey kule]

I agree 100% with you Cat. The problem I have seen in the climb is a complete lack of understanding on A/S lag and the inability to understand that until the plane is in equilibrium the nose will move around and has to be controlled ( or as you so correctly put it, holding the proper attitude) On the descent the problem to often is pilots do not seem to have been taught how to spot a trend so that they are using huge amounts of power variations as they porpoise above and below the approach path.
Just as an aside, on a CPL flight test there really used to be no standard for un-finessese like use of power...it was all about plus or minus on the airspeed. Maybe its to hard a standard to determine or something.

Quite frankly, all the stuff they really should have learned in their first half dozen lessons or so.

I guess the good news is that in about a half hour you can usually get them through this